The Non-Midas Touch, Deity Variant, 1.21PTW

Noice one,

I'll be a playing this a one tomorrow....

Herodotus say

"Damn those scythians, and unto the polis shall be the spoils, the barbarian nations are doomed to fail. For lo, the temperature of their nations is ill disposed towards rational thought. The lands to the south are too hot. This, in turn, leads us too conclude that the poor beasts blood runs too hot for the brain to function. This leads to an over-heating of the brain and leads to beastial notions. These people are too stupid for real civilisation to continue"

Easy no?

Melifluous
 
:rotfl:

All hail Meli, maker of jokes, master of pun
Hand him a task, it sure will be done
Whether it's smoking the weed, or fighting the Hun
To the water closet, his enemies will run

His words of wisdom are equal to none
When he says, "What use is saltpeter, if you have no gun?"
So all hail Meli, making this game fun
And which is more, you'll be a man, my son

Howzat?!:D :lol:
 
IT - Dangit, those darn Babs want all our cash and our TM. I cave in to their demands, we are in no position for a war atm. This will mean we have no cash and running at -1 gpt will lose a warrior. I sell him our WM for 3 gold to avert this.

Turn 1 - (1300BC) - Yawn

IT - Babs and France are building the Great Lighthouse.

Turn 2 - (1275BC) - Trying to stop the damn English from waltzing 2 settlers into our land, I think they is gonna beat me.

Turn 3 - (1250BC) - Phew one settler drops at the link to their peninsula. One more to foil before I can get my settler out and on towards the allotted spot.

Turn 4 - (1225BC) - Athens Settler -> Hoplite. We get The Wheel and start IW, we need to know where this stuff is so we find it, settle it and sell it ;) Hmm there is Horses where my next settler wants to go. The English might beat us to it though.

Turn 5 - (1200BC) - English settle short of the Horses. Phew. Lux raised to 30% to stop Sparta rioting.

Turn 6 - (1175BC) - Babs ask if we could move our warrior out of their lands, I was, erm, only looking ;) Someone has been busy we now know Egypt, China and India. Hi Guys! Only India and England dont have Maths, all the rest have most techs :(

Turn 7 - (1150BC) - Sheesh! In my usual offering the WM around, China offer us Warrior Code! Yes Please Mao! However I change my offer to WM, 1gpt and 5 gold and get IW. I know we are researching it but IW in 19, WC in 12 if I switch. Away we go.

IT - Babs and France are building the Great Library.

Turn 8 - (1125BC) - Sell WM around we have 14 gold, I gift the English with 4 of it.

Turn 9 - (1100BC) - Our warrior finally makes it back to size 3 sparta and I reduce lux to 0%. Now we get WC in 3 running at minus 2gpt 100% research. Sell WM around, we now have 16 gold. 6 gold gift to India. They are the only people we aint selling our WM to. I want tech cheap from them.

IT - Two babs settlers pass Corinth on either side. Oh did I mention that our only Iron is South East of Corinth :o

Turn 10 - (1075BC) - Athens Hoplite -> Settler. Our intrepid warrior makes it through Bab lands to the west and finds the Russian lands. We have 12 gold after map trading, gift the babs 2 gold.

IT - Oh Dear what I presumed was a babs settler pair going by Corinth turns out to be 2 bowmen that walk right in our lands :o

Turn 11 - (1050BC) - On the bright side I settle Pharsalos in the east to get the Horses in range. After map trading I sell WM and 11 gold to India for Warrior Code, saving us 2 turns of research. Corinth will build hoplite next turn if it survives that long. Hmm I gift the Babs 1 gpt. If they attack now then their rep will be shot I hope. Might even stop 'em. Research changed to Horseback Riding.

IT - The Babs back off! yay! woot!

Turn 12 - (1025BC) - Sparta Granary -> Settler. Sell The Map around. Meli the Cartographer thats me.

IT - Indians complete the Great LightHouse.

Turn 13 - (1000BC) - Thermo Granary -> Settler. Maps. Gift England 4 gold.

Turn 14 - (975BC) - In his wanderings out lone warrior ends up at the gates of Moscow. Hey Cathy! :wave: I can see your house from here. Maps. Gift India 6 gold.

IT - Galley spotted thrashing up the far east coast, expect English city to pop up there soon. Cathy liked neither my Bronx cheer nor any of my different salutes outside her capital and ejects us from her borders, we move further west ;)

Turn 15 - (950BC) - Hmm sell maps about, Gift the chinese 4 gold.

And thats that.

We have a hoplite near the only source of iron I have seen on the entire map, oops not true there is Iron under Samarra (babs). 3 settlers in production, Athens completes next turn. Babs, Cathy and Liz are annoyed at us, Mao cautious, the rest are polite. Selling WM around every turn makes on average 5gpt. Giving it away is making everyone happy, aint that nice ;) We should soon have our Horses online. Athens, Sparta and Thermo all have granaries. Most civs are building TGL. Horseback Riding in 5 turns.

Next!

Skyfish you're up next. Dont mess it up. hehe ;) No pressure...

THE SAVE
 
Fantastic turn, Meli! You were certainly juggling the techs around there, and we now have both IW and the wheel, that's fantastic news. Also, do we now have contact with everyone? I thought with an archipelago map, some contacts may be delayed, so we could try to do some suicide galleying and tech brokering, but apparently not....still, buying at last will make tech very cheap for us.

I like the way you kept on giving gold away. That's the spirit! We don't need no frickin' gold!

Go Sky!

Nad....ON DECK
Krys
Aggie
Stuck
Meli....just played
Skyfish.....UP NOW

EDIT: I do believe it is 11.01 AM, not PM...damn server messing us around again?
 
Got it.

Opening the save and our situation is dire to say the least...
 
IT - Dangit, those darn Babs want all our cash and our TM. I cave in to their demands, we are in no position for a war atm. This will mean we have no cash and running at -1 gpt will lose a warrior. I sell him our WM for 3 gold to avert this.

just wanted to ask whether this is considered an exploit in SGs: when that happenes to me, I usually click on the foreign advisor's head which leads me to the advisors menu: there I can adjust the sliders to make sure I do not lose any buildings or untis.
 
I didn't even know that was possible!

I see no reason why that would be an exploit - you are adjusting your own income split; whether you do it on your turn or in the interturn shouldn't matter, so I would say definitely not an exploit.
 
AFAIK It's not considered an exploit, it's the equivalent of "scroll ahead".
 
Just 2 remarks, please dont take offense :
I find Pharsalos badly placed but thats a personal view, it will be under very heavy cultural pressure and will make teh English agressive
towards us. It also wastes a grassland tile and we need the sea for commerce tiles :)
The workers clearing jungle are a total waste as there still are tons on unimproved land around (even BGs). One has 2 turns left, ok..
For the other one in Sparta I understand we need a shorter road to Athens but we dont have enough workers right now for jungle clearing project.
He's got 5 turns left, I veto and ask him to stop, Sparta is working 2 unimproved BGs :eek:

925bc : we lose a good site to on the East coast to Egypt :sad: Settler completes in Athens and goes towards Iron. The English have 13 cities :eek:
The Babs have 14 :eek: and they are both our neighbors :crazyeyes:

900bc : there are 2 Babs settler stacks and an English one closer to the Iron than us :hmm:

875bc : The absence of Lux is hurting us bad we need to up the Lux to 30% to prevent riot in Thermo at size 4, I have to order a clown until the settler si out in 2 turns.
There is actually a few stacks of English warriors and spearsin the Corinth region...oho

NMT-Corinth.jpg


850bc : same story with Sparta at size 4 you have to up the lux to 30% and lose 6gpt to prevent riot ! we need mroe MP but no time to produce it
as the land grab is crucial, I get a clown for 1 turn in order to complete the settler there that will hopefully get the last spot in East.

825bc : HBR comes in and we go for Writing due in 15 turns , and that's at 70% science 0 gpt, we got 7 gold :D
Our 2 settlers in Sparta and Thermo complete :jump: Sparta stays on settler and Thermo goes on worker duty.
Chess spell going on in South to get the Iron site, we'll need some luck

NMT-Corinth2.jpg
 
800bc : OK it seems the English are (or will be) at war vs the Babs : that could be our saviour ! Pharsalos produces worker and stays on worker...
Babs found Izibia right in the desert where our settler was heading...worse even, in the east the Egyptians have a settler ready to poach our site :aargh:

NMT-Photo3.jpg


775bc : First the good news : we get the Iron site in the South... but what I feared happened : we lose the East site to Egypt :cry:
Expansion is finished we got only 1 site left...it's time for military build up. Sparta changed from Settler to Rax.

NMT-Photo4.jpg


750bc : Confirmed the Babs and English are at war, I moved one of our hoplite out of the way so the English could get
quicker to the Babs.
We have 1 wandering settler that should go to the spot south of halfway between Norwich and Delphi and another one about to complete in Athens for
poaching a site from the Anglo-bab war.
Another settler is on the end of the island to the west and should settle there next turn for a fishing village. We should be very wary of playing
culture push vs teh Babs, they are the most dangerous Civ at this game.

We are in a deep, deep hole. There was no trading opps my whole round and all the AIs have more than 12 cities.
The only chance we have now is to go the military route : I would go for the Egyptians as they are overseas and let
the English and Babs war it out between them, fingers crossed they won't kiss and make up and find out who is the real
weakling here :lol:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/NMT_750_BC.SAV
 
hmm, we've not had much luck so far...the lack of bonus food is hurting as we've been marginally beaten to a few city sites. But, we have horses and iron, right? So we've got the ingredients for war.

I agree with Skyfish, take out the two Egyptian cities on the north coast, keep settlers handy to poach sites from the Bab-English war...this early in the game there'll likely be a lot of auto-razes.

For a 60% water map it seems a bit cramped, no?

I am up and I've got it...this is looking like a real tough game, but the greater the cahllenge, the greater the glory:) One day, the Babs, the English and all the other vandals will prostrate themselves and surrender to the superior Hellenistic culture.

Our enemies will, of course, be seeing quite a lot of the HELL part of hellenism :eek: ;)
 
Originally posted by Nad
Our enemies will, of course, be seeing quite a lot of the HELL part of hellenism :eek: ;)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Excellent !... Not as much as our start, though. Yeah, we are in deep trouble. But at least, we have more cities than in Nad's previous game, and remember the issue... Victory ? :cool:
 
Non-Midas Touch, Inherited Turn, 750 BC (10 turns each from hereon)

Read Skyfish's notes. Yes, the wandering settler to form a city between Delphi and Norwich; however, there is an English settler pair closer to the site than we are :( it's going to be another race.
However, the settler west of Thermopylae to form a fishing village - I don't agree with that. It's 2 squares from Thermopylae, and Thermopylae has the potential to be one of our best cities. I do not want to starve it of tiles by planting another city on it's doorstep; I will use that settler for possible poaching also.

Agreed on the military route. We need to get iron and horses hooked. Since we can't have the cash to upgrade, there's no point building warriors with a view to upgrde.

City survey: Athens' fur forest really should have been chopped by now - that's a 2/2/2 square when improved, one of the best tiles available. Also, Athens' shield box is already full, so it's clearly been waiting to grow to size 3 to produce the settler - could we have slipped some more military in before this particular settler?

Pharsalos changed to temple. Wee bit of micromanagement eg change Athens to fish, since it doesn't need the shields this turn.

Sell WM around - takes us to 14g - gift 4g to England - their attitude improves to cautious.

IT:English troops wandering round. Cathy gives us the boot order.

Athens: settler ---------------> archer
Thermo: worker --------------> barracks

Turn 1, 730BC - worker to chop fur forest. English units are blocking some of our roads, which is quite annoying.

IT:Watching some skirmishing

Turn 2, 710BC - Egypt is a Republic!!! Bit of a bombshell from our military advisor there.
Ah - Samarra and Shruppak have expanded borders, so they won't be auto-razed :cry:

gift some gold to the English - they're annoyed still

IT: oh sugar. Russians are building the Great Wall and every civ except ourselves, Egypt and China enters the Middle Ages :eek: We're still 9 essential techs away!!!

Turn 3, 690BC - I wanna try and build a road to Knossos (iron) but bloody English troops are in the way!
Delphi changed to worker - want to start the line of irrigation now the road to Corinth is in place.
Another gift of WM + 1g makes England cautious again - I'm choosing England as the beneficiary of our largesse because the number of swords they have running around is a little scary. Thank Zeus we've got hoplites, they give us that extra bit of security we desperately need.

IT: Delphi: worker --------> worker

Turn 4, 670BC - our exploring warrior is showing no respect of French or Russian borders.
I'm sending our surplus settlers to Corinth for poaching opportunities.
Give Liz another 6g, the amount we're earning from map sales. She must think i fancy her...

IT: Liz demands TM and 10g...the cheek! You don't have to demand Lizzy, I'm happy to give it to you of my own free will! Luckily we're doing 0gpt, so we won't have to disband anything by giving into her demand.
English and babs are still skirmishing rather than fighting. See a bowman kll a warrior, so if they've not already had their GA, they cetainly have now. Babylon completes the Great Library - maybe we can dream of capturing it one day to restore tech parity? Rather a distant prospect at the moment....
Moscow cascades and completes the Great Wall.

Turn 5, 650BC - there must be an island to our north, because an orange border has just appeared there.

Beat English to city site, found Argos as a fill-in, start worker. Begin irrigation from Corinth.

Sell maps to everyone, we're back up to 7g again - it's a great income supplementer

IT: We can now build the FP...we're about half the size of every other civ.

Sparta: barracks ---------> archer

Turn 6, 630BC - One good thing is that Egypt is holding on to its Republic monopoly, as everyone else is stuck in Despotism.

IT: England is not making much headway against the Babs - might be due to the fact that their moronic swordsmen keep attacking bowmen fortified on mountains, across a river :rolleyes:

Athens: archer -------> archer

Turn 7, 610BC - archers will gather at the convention at Sparta.
Gift some gold to Hammurabi this time, as he also has troops in our land now.
England is annoyed again...why does their attitude keep worsening? Is it anything to do with our aggressive settlements (especially Pharsalos, horse city)?

IT: horse road complete :cool: Babylonian borders expanding again. Knossos and Corinth are under intense cultural pressure - we can do nothing except hope they don't flip.

Turn 8, 590BC - Give Liz WM + 7g, back to cautious

IT: Babylon now also has swords around...I'm sensing that the tide of battle, with Babylon in a GA, might be turning.

Corinth: hoplite ---------> temple
Knossos: worker ----------> walls

Turn 9, 570BC - new worker onto iron mountain.

China and Egypt are now also in the middle ages. A number of civs are now in anarchy, so it appears that Egypt has sold its republic monopoly. Give Babs WM + 4g.

IT: watching the Babs and England fight, I'm reminded of how incompetent the AI is at fighting; English swords keep attacking bowmen on hills and mountains; babs are using warriors to atack other warriors on high terrain etc. The losses are terrible on both sides; I guess we should be glad they're wasting their production like this :D, but it still makes you cringe.

Writing is researched.

Sparta: archer -------> horseman

Turn 10, 550BC - luxes to 20% due to Thermopylae's growth.

Gift Hammurabi WM + 4g.

Research set to philosophy - next player can veto, but I think we should research philospophy, use gpt to buy C of L and start min science on republic, using any surplus gpt to buy other techs - there is no brokering available at all, and we're too far behind for a slingshot, so quite simply, we're going to have to buy or research at last - challenging, but pretty typical for a difficult deity game.

Notes for next player: we have 2 settlers in Corinth - don't merge them - just keep watching for any cities that get razed - do NOT try any cultural push settlement (like Pharsalos) - we have to be patient.

We are preparing for a limited war vs egypt. Our aim will be to raze their 2 cities on our peninsula and replace the with our own, getting a quick peace with tech concessions. The 2 Egyptian cities are isolated and unlikely to be defended by much more than a couple of spears each, but Egypt is a republic and can cash -rush more, so our strike must be 2-pronged and decisive. Archers and horsemen will do to take the 2 cities, I would suggest 2 stacks of 6 units each. Try to avoid triggering our GA if possible - it's a bit early and our lands are far from being improved to take advantage of a GA - use warriors to cover the archers rather than hoplites - Athens and Sparta are doing military, once Thermopylae finishes its barracks, it can also join in.

Forbidden Palace - if we're lucky enough to get a leader from the quick war, it must be used for the FP. Otherwise, we should start hand-building it soon. I would suggest Delphi is the best option at the moment. What do others think? If we do choose Delphi, get some workers to start mining its grasslands. For all our other deficiencies, we are doing okay in terms of workers, and should crank a few more to get our lands improved.

Krys is up, Aggie on deck.

Save


I guess this is what they call a Deity ROP, huh?


NMTDeityROP.jpg
 
lurker's comment:
Very interesting varient you've got going here. I just realized you wouldn't be able to do the standard mass upgrade technique without a tech lead (sell tech and use the profit for upgrade).

Originally posted by Nad
England is annoyed again...why does their attitude keep worsening?
Bamspeedy wrote a great article concerning AI Attitude. Its here in the War Academy. But the DISCUSSION IN THE FORUM is more up-to-date.

Some snipets that pertain to you:
from Bamspeedy's AI Attitude Article
Here are the attitude ranks:
-11 and lower = Gracious
-1 through -10 = Polite
0 = Cautious
1-10 = Annoyed
11 through 100 = Furious

Remember, negative numbers are GOOD.

Modifiers:
-1 You are in the same government as the AI (of course at the start, everyone is in despotism).

-1 if you have done any recent trades (maps or techs) or currently have a 20 turn deal with them (gold/turn, trade embargo against another civ). Trading maps every turn does not help improve attitude! Offering very generous trades (example: giving them 5,000 gold for Alphabet) does not help.

-1 If you have a culture lead. +1 if the AI has the culture lead.

-1 You pay tribute to the AI.

+1 If you call the AI’s bluff when he demands tribute (and he doesn’t declare war of course).

-5 If you have a Right of Passage with the AI.

Gifts
-1 for each 10 gold worth of techs/gold you donate, up to a maximum of -10 (100 gold). This bonus decays at about 10 gold/turn. The larger of a gift you give above 100 gold, then longer you will get to keep the -10 maximum pts. Example: Giving them 1,000 gold will keep them happy for 100 turns, 500 gold would be 50 turns. gpt donations are added on immediately, but the effect of it may disappear before the deal is done.

Theres a lot more info. Some of the article was corrected in the discussion thread.
 
My source is more Sirian than Bamspeedy (i.e more intuitive than scientific) but I am sure Pharsalos keeps them permanently cautious or worse....
 
I've seen that Bamspeedy article before, and I've just had another read through. I think the explanation here is that England's attitude to us is annoyed, but when I'm giving gifts that add to 10g, they become cautious for a turn, due to the gift - since this wears off after a turn, the next time I checked, they were annoyed again.

What I'm far more concerned about in this game, however, is how the aggressive settlement of Pharsalos affects things. Bamspeedy did not reseach how things like aggressive settlements affect the AI's thinking. He says, correctly, that it does not affect their attitude, ie annoyed, polite, cautious etc....but there is a whole other issue here, which is what issues contribute to the AI declaring war on you? As, for example, Charis points out in the beginning of the discussion, gracious civs sneak attack you where furious civs might not. One of the things that I think is important is aggressive settlement. As Skyfish says, this is probably intuitive, but at some point we might expect the English to launch retribution for our aggressive settlement, and it would be nice if someone like Bamspeedy, who has a talent for this sort of research, could try to establish what causes the AI to attack you
 
I had another look at the save, searching for inspiration...there wasn't any, but one importnat micro thing: Krys, please change Athens to horseman - the forest chop is about to complete and we don't wanna waste the shields.
 
pre-turn : Athens : archer changed to horseman.
Knossos : walls changed to temple.
GOLD : 10

1- 530bc : Athens : horseman > archer.
Elizabeth : give 1 gold.
GOLD : 10 (+1)

2- 510bc : Elizabeth : ditto.
GOLD : 10 (+1)

3- 490bc : Thermo : barracks > archer.
Elizabeth : ditto.
GOLD : 10 (+0)

IT : Hammurabi asks for TM + 10 gold, I cave in.

4- 470bc : Athens : archer > archer.
Delphi : worker > worker.
GOLD : 0 (+0)

5- 450bc : Thermo : riots ! Taxeman hired. My bad, my thoughts are on our poor situation, and so I forget to checks things like that.
Sparta : horseman > horseman.
Argos : worker > worker.
GOLD : 1 (+2)

6- 430bc : Athens : archer changed to horseman.
GOLD : 3 (+2)

7- 410bc : Lux 40%.
GOLD : 5 (-5)

8- 390bc : Philosophy discovered, start researching Republic at 10%.
Athens : horseman > horseman.
Joan : take 38 gold (all) + Code of Laws + Mysticism, give Furs.
Elizabeth : give 28 gold.
Lux 70%.
GOLD : 10 (+0)

IT : Babylonians now have control of the mountains. They seem to be at peace with the English, as the latest now head for both Egyptian cities, this is bad news.

9- 370bc : Iron hooked !
Thermo : archer > swordsman.
Sparta : horseman > swordsman.
Lux 60%.
GOLD : 10 (+3)

10- 350bc : Athens : horseman changed to swordsman.
Elizabeth : give 3 gold.
Our troops head for the Egyptian cities, maybe next turn it's war ?
GOLD : 10 (+3)

the save : 350bc

SG_NMT_350bc.JPG
 
good stuff. We can trade with France? That must be a land route, and we should be thankful that the Babs and English aren't at war! Otherwise, if the English should have happened to have pillaged a road....bye bye reputation, and this game would then have been extremely difficult to win.

Aggie is up, Stuck on deck
 
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