The Non-Midas Touch, Deity Variant, 1.21PTW

[Nad]

Thanks for the explanation Krys That makes things a little clearer. Nevertheless, I would still have kept at least the MDI, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that That's one of the best things about playing succession games.

In response to your question, we're not planning on going to war and we're not looking to declare war wantonly. Our plan is to be opportunistic, eg, if the English are about to be knocked out, we could have used our MDI to capture a couple of cities, knowing they could not retaliate.

Don't disband things though, on the basis of "it's never going to be upgraded and so we might as well disband it as it's obsolete". At some stage in this game, we WILL have some cash....we're in this for the long haul, til a space launch. At some stage we may be able to research a tech that no-one has and sell it for a bomb (perhaps a modern age slingshot?). Then, we could have one mass upgrade and rushing fest to modernize our military. It is important, as I said in the previous post, not to put all our eggs in one basket. We have to have some contingency plans, and a larger military is essential to provide some security for our position. Ideally, yes, we'd like it to be a quality military, but since we haven't got that (yet), quantity will have to do.

 

[Aggie]

IHT: Things are looking very grim. When I look closely I see that all civs already have Nationalism. I can't imagine that we get a free tech worth trading I'm shocked to see how low our income is, even after we get all the gpt's from trading back.

IT: Egypt and France sign peace.

Turn 1 (1060 AD) Pharsalos: cannon->cannon. We make 57 gpt again. We have one turn before magnetism. I wait for that before I trade.

IT: England and Russia sign peace.

Turn 2 (1070 AD) Magnetism discovered. We get Steam as our free tech Buto: granary->university.
WE ARE DOOMED: no coal
I also count only 9 workers. Not enough to turn our empire into a powerhouse. A couple of towns is switched to workers.

I see one source north of leeds, which requires aggresive settling. In will do so.

I buy coal from Russia for 43 gpt and 63 gold. We now make 14 gpt and ahave 2 gold in cash.

Egypt and India are backward and have no IA tech over us, expect Nationalism. The rest appears to have infantry already
Research to Industrialization at +14gpt (in 20 turns).

IT: China and Egypt sign peace.

Turn 3 (1080 AD) Athens, Pharsalos: worker->worker, granary. Sparta: galleon->worker. Thermo: musket->worker. Knossos: granrary->courthouse.

India has industrialization now I donate Russia 10 gold. We make 12 gpt and have 10 gold in cash

Turn 4 (1090 AD) Thermo, Athens, Sparta: worker->worker, musket, worker.

France gets 12 gold from us. I rush a 0 gpt, 10 gold.

IT: Russia declares war :suicide: And sign a trade embargo vs us with China. Russia drags India into the war vs us. Herakleia is gone first.

Rhodes and Pharsalos also fall...
The French finish Universal Suffrage.

Turn 5 (1100 AD) We can't buy Military tradition from anyone... I'll play along, but we all know the outcome. Obviously we lost our coal...workers are without a thing to do...

I buy a MMP with France for 25 gpt and 48 gold. What else can I do?

IT: France declares war on the Indians. ehm, maybe I made a big mistake here. We are now at war with England. France declares war on Russia. Knossos, Argos and Sparta fall.

Turn 6 (1110 AD) Massive civil unrest. We lose a lot of money (-11 gpt). Lux to 40%, science to 0%. We now make 12 gpt.

IT: France captures Knossos from the Russians

Turn 7 (1120 AD) Eritrea founded next to a coal source. Too little, to late.

IT: Ephesus, Lisht and Bhuto are gone.

Turn 8 (1130 AD) More war weariness (66%)...

IT: Egypt and Russia sign peace. Delphi is gone.

Turn 9 (1140 AD) Hmmm...nothing to do really

IT: France captures Delphi France and England sign peace. Egypt now also has an Embargo vs us. Zariqum is gone.

Turn 10 (1150 AD) Depressing to play this turn. I have to manage the war wearniss and to make sure that we won't run into a deficit. We have 14 gold now and make -13gpt...

I guess this means we lost. I want to try this concept again, at the same level, but then with a good starting position. I guess we were in a difficult spot from the beginning. We came quite far, but I don't believe that we had a real shot even before the war vs Russia.

1150 AD save - pre-loss

 

[Nad]

Jeez, things can change quickly. I was hoping we could stay away from war until at least rifles, preferably infantry. There was always the chance though that something like this could happen, which is why I was disappointed when Krys disbanded a lot of our military. I guess it wouldn't have made too much difference even if we had those units though.

Stuck is up....it may be academic, but play your turns anyway. Miracles do happen, the Russians might get distracted by the French and we may be able to hole out with what little we have until the end of our MPP. Or maybe not...it doesn't matter, but make them kill us, don't resign...let's see how many cossacks we can take with us...

 

[Skyfish]

Great turns Aggie

 

[Nad]

Originally posted by Skyfish
Great turns Aggie

Motivation for Stuck and Meli: put Sky in his place by surviving the next 20 turns and let him face the loss that'll show him....

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

To Do: Survive with as few cities as possible. field units just so that Russia can take them... I think I may be able to consolidate damage. Lemme finish my HOT6 turns, then I'll see if I can play doctor.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Russia is no longer at war with us. we still have 4 cities

 

[kryszcztov]

**** is the word. (sorry)

I don't know how the AI judges it was good to declare war on us, but if it appears that an important factor is our military force (offensive and defensive points), then I might be sorry for disbanding these units. If it's not important for the AI (but still, did we have that much military anyway ?), then we were doomed anyway. Cathy was polite a few turns ago... **** her !

Yes, our starting position was really bad. No river in our land + cash building forbidden = really not much gold !!! What will we do now ? Is there a slight possibility to survive and... get a little victory ? Diplomatic ? Hum, my cheeks turn red.

EDIT : Damn those * ! The word is a famous 4-letter word.

 

[Mopheo]

I just found this thread a few days ago, and the varient is a great idea. I'm too lazy to play a real game these days so I made it an emproer OCC, (aiming for cultural and diplomatic victory), and I'm doing ok.

In any case, the game was played great considering the hand you had dealt to you, and I didn't see much oppurtunity to do it any better. I do have useful trick which might be helpful if you try this varient again: If you have around 20 gold and a civ is willing to give gpt, you can "store" the money by getting 1 gpt. In diety you might need 21 gold, I'm not sure. This works for any multiple of 20.

In any case, if you feel really worried about being attacked, I recommend giving away gpt as opposed to just money. Also, buying a ROP lowers the chance of a sneak atttack.

Great game, and good luck on a UN victory. Even with 4 cities i'm pretty sure its possible without the restriction (buy stealing) but it will be a real challenge to catch up, unless the world remains a communist battleground.

 

[Aggie]

4 cities? I don't believe in miracles. I'd say: let's call this one TKO and start a new one! I really like to try this variant again, but I already heard that Nad has a great new idea

 

[Skyfish]

Now that's the spirit Aggie
SAAM pulls out a miracle and you still want to throw away the game

 

[Nad]

Stuck: well played!! Especially if those 4 cities are core cities, Athens, Thermo, Sparta....or are they island cities?

The only thing that worries me....we are no longer at war with Russia, you say? But we signed an MPP with France which has not yet run out. Have we broken that deal? If not, we might be back at war again....

Have you played 10 turns or was that a progress report? If you've played 10, please post a save!

Mopheo: good idea! I never thought of that. With Deity trade rate, it would likely require 23-24 gp for 1gpt trade, but that's still better than giving away the cash like we did. Good luck in your game, hope it ends successfully for you

Krys: don't worry about it. As they say, sh!t happens. The Civ 3 AIs are known to be treacherous swines....it was a matter of time before one of the bullies decided to pick on us.

 

[Aggie]

Originally posted by Nad
The only thing that worries me....we are no longer at war with Russia, you say? But we signed an MPP with France which has not yet run out. Have we broken that deal? If not, we might be back at war again....

We can't break a MPP that way. The MPP only forces us to declare war when our partner is attacked. We are allowed to make peace soon after that. However, now we have a peace treaty and we are forced to keep it for 20 turns to keep our rep clean. As soon as the MPP is triggered and we enter a new war vs Russia, we will have a broken rep.

The MPP is a killer, but I am convinced that we would be dead already without our mpp with France. They were able to kill a lot of Russian units before they entered our land.

EDIT: Sparta was already lost during my turns. I expect that we have a couple of island cities left

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

I'm not done yet, But unfortunatly, the situation is as follows:
We are no longer at war with Russia. France still is (they have attacked eachother on and off, so I doubt that the MPP is still good)
Ghandi refuses to talk. He may finish off our 2 remaining island cities.
The price for peace was, unfortunatly, Thermo. I tried to give her the 2 useless ones, but she wouldnt renegotiate.
Good news regarding Thermo: Since it was given in peace talks, there were (oddly) no Russian units stationed in it (we only lost a Hoplite. We still have all the workers that were around there). France waltzed in and took it (they are Gracious), and it may recieve culture pressure from Athens with only ONE French Cav in it. I'm sure someone would be able to figure out the flip rate.
Other then Athens, we have 2 Island Cities and the southernmost city we had when the game was given to me. This is guarded by an elite hoplite and musket. I feel that if we allow India to take the 2 islands, we may be able to survive for awhile longer as a 2CC. Who knows? We may survive?

I plan to keep going later today.

Regards,
SaaM

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

This Nearly Was Mine...
Dearly Beloved, we are gathered here today for the death of an empire.
T1: We are at -21gpt. Athens is rioting.
Could this be the end turn?
T2: Iziba is raized. Darn Cossacks. Corinth meets a similar, but less burny fate. The Mycenae library is disbanded. A worker is disbanded. And the people expand the palace... Athens builds Med Inf.
T3: Yay! Russia will make peace for Thermo. I grudgingly (is that a word?) accept. India still wont talk, though.
T4: Thessalonica is taken by the Indians. Joan trades us Dyes for Fur and takes Thermo. A worker is disbaned. We still posses 4 cities, 2 being useless. India will now talk. They will do peace for Eretria. I accept (He would have taken it anyway)
T5: Nada.
T6: India and France come to Peace. Russia starts ToE. They have Inf. We do peace with England for 3 workers. (we have more)
T7: France has Gurellias. Athens builds a Longbow. The Russians take Thermo.
T8: Samarra: Courthouse->Worker.
T9: Nil
T10: Nothing, but
We're Not Dead!!!

The Save (We're Still Alive!!!!!)

 

[Nad]

Nice one Stuck.

It may be academic carrying on, but I'm going to play 10 now just to see if there is any hope of salvaging the situation. If it's clear that we're dead bar the shouting, then we'll call it quits, but if there is a hope, then we'll carry on (those who want to anyway).

So got it.

 

[Tarkeel]

lurker's comment: Nad, those pics you posted are actually BMPs with .jpg extension, and they are huge! Might be an idea to get a different graphics toold to convert them[relurk]

 

[Nad]

Guys, after long deliberation and after playing a few more turns, I hereby declare Non-Midas Touch: the Warm-Up Attempt evil: ) to be dead

Survival alone is possible. I played 15 turns and we're still alive and gained a 4th city on a site ruin. But, in medical terms, we're a vegetable. Somehow our rep has been trashed....we've betrayed the French apparently, which might explain why we don't have an MPP with them anymore. We're eons behind technologically with no hope of catching up. It's a pity, because by my 2nd turn, France was in anarchy, everyone else in Communism, and the world wars showed no sign of abating. But for the Russian catastrophe, we would have had a great shot at winning the game, cos this is the messiest industrial age showdown I've ever seen.

As it is, however, we've got no shot at winning the game, and all we're doing is delaying the inevitable...we're never gonna build the UN, we're too far behind in technology....same for space race. Any of the AI civs could put us out of our misery at their leisure. So, though it pains me to say it, I acknowledge defeat.

I do intend, however, to carry on the game myself. Through some nifty trading on the inherited turn, I managed to buy military tradition and saltpeter, and a few turns in, when an embargo against us ended, I managed to buy horses from China. I'm intending to build a few cavalry....and go down in a blaze of glory. I'm thinking of a little ROP rape against Russia...I have never used ROP rape before, but this is no longer a serious game, this is pure, cold-hearted vengeance. I'm gonna die, but I'm gonna see if I can take Moscow with me

Thank you all for playing, and to all the readers who have followed the game and offered their advice and well-wishes. Sorry we couldn't come up trumps for you all, but hey, that's life. Aggie and I have already agreed to give this varient another crack soon, cos it's certainly interesting and adds a whole new crimp to diplomacy that makes even standard deity challenging. We didn't have much luck in this game, what with the start position, nasty expansionist neighbours, poor lands, and an archipelago map that was anything but. But next time.... we'll be back :vampire:

Stay tuned people, cos I'm starting another SG real soon and it's guaranteed to be a bundle of laughs. And everyone is invited!!!

Nad
Truly lacking the Midas Touch

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Im in for NMTb: Greeks with Water (I assume)

 

[Nad]

Glad to hear it Stuck NMT2 is on the backburner....I'd like to play a different game beofre coming back to it, so it might be a month or two before it starts. And I'd probably choose a different civ, simply for variation.