The Offical IOT Mod Brainstorming and Organisation Thread

[Ailedhoo]

Welcome to the official thread for the Civ4 Mod of the IOT community.

Links

Latest version for download with changes.

Compressed core file for the latest version.


Application form for those who wish to add their own civ to the mod.

Spoiler Installation instructions :

1. Download and install Tortoise SVN.
2. Create a folder in the BTS/Mods directory (or duplicate the existing IOT folder—make sure it's renamed or you've backed up the mod).
3. Right-click on the new folder and select 'SVN Checkout'. For 'URL of repository', enter 'svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/civ4-iot/code/trunk', and double-check that 'Checkout directory' matches the path to your folder.

For future updates, simply right-click the folder and select 'SVN Update', or to update to a specific revision, 'TortoiseSVN > Update to revision'.

Compressed core files

Page 97 in the Argentina thread in which we began initial talks of the mod. Lasts till 101.

 

[Civ'ed]

I think this time, rather than having one or two people come up with the details, we treat it all as one big signup for an IOT with the people coming up with their personal ideas for their specific nation.

 

[Ailedhoo]

I think this time, rather than having one or two people come up with the details, we treat it all as one big signup for an IOT with the people coming up with their personal ideas for their specific nation.

That... may have merits, although some editors are going to be needed for balancing, quality control, ensuring they have a fitting for the player and other stuff to ensure it is fun for everyone.

 

[Terran Empress]

welp im here. Subbing

 

[WhiteRobber]

Since I'm half Greek, I suggest a Greek Civilisation, with my IOTer attributes: agressive, random, bad at balancing economical and military gains, eager to make alliances, corrupt, unstable, surprisingly inefficient and annoying.

 

[Omega124]

Son, Lec, and I used to discuss an idea similar to this for Civ 5. The idea was explicitly for everyone to have a nation (and only a) based on their playstyle in IOT games. Lec ended up making a science-based civ, Son made something completely unorthodox and weird (I don't remember exactly), and I made an espionage and late game focused civ.

This is what I remember from my civ:
UA: Cloak and Dagger (Start with one extra spy. All spies start at Level 3)
UU: Stoßtruppen (Replaces Great War Infantry. Costs more hammers, but ignores terrain and fortification bonuses when attacking)
I never really found a second UU/UB idea I liked. I don't want a second UU because I don't want to be war focused, but I can't think of a good UB.

Now, if this becomes Civ 4, I'm going to request this:

Traits: Cha, Cre
UU: Spec Ops (Replaces Spy. One extra movement, has three special espionage actions unavailable to normal spies based on the crap I'd pull off in LH's IOT (in rank of importance, with top being most):

Fund Insurrection: If successful, spawns a small stack of barbarians next to the infiltrated city
Steal Plans: Reduce city defence bonus to 0% for one turn
Bribe Garrison: Remove one random unit in the city from the game

UB: IDK

 

[hoplitejoe]

Dunno if I will bother to be in this mod, but I will make a recommendation.
For ease I suggest you use a base that is close-ish to vanilla civ 4, you may run into unexpected problems if you use a complexer mod like C2C or something.
I want to say don't do RFC, but I love it too much, and it would be way too much fun (and maybe not too hard if you replace the already existing civs?) .

 

[Civ'ed]

Hmm... A civ'ed nation...
Traits: Imperialist, Protective
UU: Highlander: only 1 can be built at any time*. replaces rifleman and has a bonus attacking fortified enemies.
UB: Stadtrat: replaces castle. adds courthouse bonuses.
* THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE
How OP is this?

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

Celtic Empire sounds like a good name for a Civilization...

More later.

 

[Ailedhoo]

I presume were are to use Beyond the Sword, yes? After all it is the... Civ4 at its prime.

I think the "players" (civs) will have multiple leaders reflecting the nations they played. Terran alluded to a... more direct representation but I am certain the considerations is hence that it is best to have civs inspired by the players and the leaders inspired by the powers they played as.

We will need to appoint some senior figures to have authority in leading the operates, for quality control, balancing issues and a basic leadership. I, myself, would elect Thor and Tails especilly.

@Omega: I think spies are going to be... set with many... especially as I think those traits you suggested would hinder in balance issues (remove garrison to 0%... who needs siege weapons?) which is why we need editors to judge and have ultimate command. However you have my ideas in fission, for I have some thoughts:

1) The BtS Corporation system; a IOT NGO system? Scarlet Lancers can have a special rebel unit... and a special unit, similar to one of my NGOs (I do not know which to represent... E.V.I.L, Mandatum or Goon Squad?) with a special spy unit and... I need to think of another.

2) We could do like the Dune mod and have use have unique spies but this may take too much time and could have hinderence.

3) Certain civs can have unique spies, like Jeho, you Omega and I (we are the Goon Squad and we coming to town. Beep! Beep!) but this will have to have its measurements for balance.

Remember; we must have our strengths and weaknesses. Just as Tyo must be forbidden from being able to build boats so must my arrogance be displayed somehow.

Anyway: we will likely have multiple leaders per civ. I for instance have Abel Roux to represent my play of the S.U.D.S (expansionist and industrious), Gilmore Flanagon or Illiam II to represent the Imperium of Man (expansionist and imperialist) and (although not hosted here on IOT but on NES, although Tani did class it as "could be either) Aquilus Regina (expansionist and intriguing, the later a special trait with spy bonuses).

I have not been in all games Thor played but I would not be surprised if he had a character representing his time as playing the Downfall Gang (whom will have defence due to the bunker and intrigue due to the master of antics), Scarlet Lancers (intrigue and charismatic) and... I will need to think who would the third for him.

Anyway: I would encourage people to (civilly) review other people if need be for a co-operative notion.

Now I imagine multiple UUs and UBs per civ. What is my vision?

I guess the Manx (I somehow sense this is how you are going to mod me in... that or the S.U.D.S or the Celts) will have the Seiyder as a curatorial damage giving tank, assault rovers as a replacement for a fast recon unit, a ghoul to replace (forgive me for barrowing from Fall from Heaven 2) the assassin unit with the ghoul have cannibalism to recover some health after combat and... we need to assess where else (Bird of Prey interceptor unit?). I am uncertain of my UB(s).

This is just the idea stage; as it finalises we will set in motion our policy.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

I think the first thing we need to settle is whether the civs are going to be an aggregate of our play styles, or the actual factions we've used. I'm leaning toward the latter, since in custom games the rules do let you play _x civ with _y leader, and so if the leaders are representing ourselves rather than characters it all becomes a lot more interchangeable.

The BtS Corporation system; a IOT NGO system?

Now, I may be biased in that I could never quite wrap my head around Corporations, but from what I've seen in other mods it's something we could substitute for religion: different groups provide different units and structures with varying benefits and drawbacks; also easier to incorporate spread of influence and ideological purges.

Just as Tyo must be forbidden from being able to build boats

Why? I mean, Tyo's Amirals kind of requires he have a navy, don't it?

 

[Ailedhoo]

I think the first thing we need to settle is whether the civs are going to be an aggregate of our play styles, or the actual factions we've used. I'm leaning toward the latter, since in custom games the rules do let you play _x civ with _y leader, and so if the leaders are representing ourselves rather than characters it all becomes a lot more interchangeable.

I though more the nations "represent ourselves" for we wear different masks in many ways as we choice which nation to play, as seen by the sane play of the S.U.D.S by me and the rather aggressive play of the Imperium of Man by me. This especially as I feel I would... have different traits per game (unless you want to make me have the insane trait that allows one to randomly change a trait, while others who change will have a choice with the adapt trait ).

Now, I may be biased in that I could never quite wrap my head around Corporations, but from what I've seen in other mods it's something we could substitute for religion: different groups provide different units and structures with varying benefits and drawbacks; also easier to incorporate spread of influence and ideological purges.

That is... a consideration, although then there is the question of certain stuff AKA Beyond the Lampshade...

But your idea is good too, especially in consideration especially with the Scarlet Lancers etch.

Why? I mean, Tyo's Amirals kind of requires he have a navy, don't it?

The Amiral is his hero unit, who sails a ghost fleet of the sunken ships. His wizards are one of his "normal" unique units.

 

[Robert Can't]

Also most of the stuff you've been discussing in Chat, things like replacing the tech tree and many things that would require more complicated python stuff, seem a bit over complicated for a base to a mod.
I think the mod has to first and foremost be this:
some IOT nations with UUs and UBs. And other than that keep it a standard Civ game, at least for now. Sure as soon as the initial build is out I think it would be fine to add more stuff. but at its core that's what I think this mod should be - one that adds civs to the game and we can build on it from there once we have that.

 

[dragonprobably]

Nortonia:

Leader: MartinLuther

Leader pics (choose the one you like):

Spoiler :

Traits: Philosophical and Spiritual

Favorite Civic: Free Speech.

UU: Nortonian Militia (replaces rifleman)

UB: Asylum (replaces Police Station.)

Peace Music:

Spoiler :

Link to video.

or


Link to video.

War Music:

Spoiler :

Start at 0:54:


Link to video.

or


Link to video.

Symbol:

Spoiler :

or

UB: IDK

Spy Outpost?

 

[Ailedhoo]

Also most of the stuff you've been discussing in Chat, things like replacing the tech tree and many things that would require more complicated python stuff, seem a bit over complicated for a base to a mod.
I think the mod has to first and foremost be this:
some IOT nations with UUs and UBs. And other than that keep it a standard Civ game, at least for now. Sure as soon as the initial build is out I think it would be fine to add more stuff. but at its core that's what I think this mod should be - one that adds civs to the game and we can build on it from there once we have that.

The thing is: would a IOT be a standard civ? Many are post-disaster... with modern technology. There is a opportunity and limitation can be... limiting. Ambition dictates that tech trees can be modded (there are civ4 mods that alter the tech tree). However we ensure a consideration in how we apply.

Since your here by the way... your civilization, which I guess will be a marine/culture civ, must have a unique barracks which adds culture due to the singing of "Major Modern General."

 

[NedimNapoleon]

subbing

 

[Omega124]

I think spies are going to be... set with many... especially as I think those traits you suggested would hinder in balance issues (remove garrison to 0%... who needs siege weapons?) which is why we need editors to judge and have ultimate command. However you have my ideas in fission, for I have some thoughts:

Well, firstly, AI is bad with spies. This is a proven fact. If Steal Plans is imbalanced, I can only see human players absuing it anyways. Therefore, it's only a problem in MP. And really as long as we have Fund Insurrection (That's the one I REALLY abused in stuff like IOTE2. I completely destroyed nations without declaring war by just spamming revolts until they collapsed), I'm happy. Anyways, I feel that we should playtest before we say something is OP.

Spy Outpost?

Oooh. I like that. Replaces Barracks, generates +2 Espionage points a turn. Would be a great early game UB. Thanks

As for music, this should be my peace theme:


Link to video.

And war:


Link to video.

(I like to keep it classy)

Symbol would obviously be a capital Omega (Like Greece's symbol in Civ 5). I would suggest either white background and red Ω, or black background with yellow Ω. In the former, my color should be Japan's red in BTS, and the latter should be the grey color used by Byzantium (Unless I could steal the barbarians' black, which would most likely involve giving them a new color)

 

[NinjaCow64]

Firstly I would just like to agree with Robert here:

Also most of the stuff you've been discussing in Chat, things like replacing the tech tree and many things that would require more complicated python stuff, seem a bit over complicated for a base to a mod.
I think the mod has to first and foremost be this:
some IOT nations with UUs and UBs. And other than that keep it a standard Civ game, at least for now. Sure as soon as the initial build is out I think it would be fine to add more stuff. but at its core that's what I think this mod should be - one that adds civs to the game and we can build on it from there once we have that.

Doing anything more complicated than that as a start might mean the mod will never get off the ground. Once we finish a Civ for every IOTer (and maybe religions and corporations to be replaced later) then let's think of a techtree. I'm in favor of Civ4 BtS. Also:

Confirmed Details

*It will be a civ mod

*The civilizations will be inspired by the players, with the leaders inspired by the nations they played as. This does not mean the civilizations are leaders and vice versa

*Tyo's civ will be forbidden from building navy units; instead he has access to air transport and other compensations.

*The Triforce Facility will be a research based wonder.

I object to these two things being "confirmed". Nothing except the first two things (maybe not even them) should be "confirmed". What injoke am I missing about the triforce anyway? Also, I think Tyo's Admirals would better (and more easily represented, as your suggestion would have to be done by python and that is a bad idea at this stage) with a unique trait that gives each naval unit a promotion that gives them a -90% combat modifier. And he should get something pretty awesome to compensate.

I think this time, rather than having one or two people come up with the details, we treat it all as one big signup for an IOT with the people coming up with their personal ideas for their specific nation.

One final thing. Although having unique music for each player would be pretty cool, 99% of it is copyrighted and is from Youtube and it is illegal to download from there so the mod would get pulled quicker than we can say "Holy DCMA Batman!". To avoid the thread and future threads getting closed, we should add this disclaimer:

We acknowledge that the people adding music in this thread are saying "wouldn't it be awesome to have this" than "we've gotta have this". The mod file that we will upload to CFC will have no copyrighted music in it so no sweat guys.

Anyway, I may have a workaround for that. Maybe. I'll post it in chat later. Anyway, I'll make a proposal for my Civ in a new post in just a second.

EDIT: Or maybe later this afternoon.

 

[Ailedhoo]

Well, firstly, AI is bad with spies. This is a proven fact. If Steal Plans is imbalanced, I can only see human players abusing it anyways. Therefore, it's only a problem in MP. And really as long as we have Fund Insurrection (That's the one I REALLY abused in stuff like IOTE2. I completely destroyed nations without declaring war by just spamming revolts until they collapsed), I'm happy. Anyways, I feel that we should playtest before we say something is OP.

That still does not cease the fact the "steal plans" etch would prove to make things easy. Do not use the A.I. as a excuse; single player has to be balanced too. Any rate the thing would spoil balance and quite frankly unconsidering. Hence it will be vetoed for quality and balance control.

I object to these two things being "confirmed". Nothing except the first two things (maybe not even them) should be "confirmed". What injoke am I missing about the triforce anyway? Also, I think Tyo's Admirals would better (and more easily represented, as your suggestion would have to be done by python and that is a bad idea at this stage) with a unique trait that gives each naval unit a promotion that gives them a -90% combat modifier. And he should get something pretty awesome to compensate.

We need a organisation, hence the confirmation... while the Triforce Facility may be "just thoughts... was set for ordering.

My though was Tyo had already a suggestion compensation... air transport etch that would replace his forbidden sea fleets. Wizards were one of his other icon... of course would require a alterative tech tree that would better reflect the IOT experience than the standard Civilization 4 tech tree.

Anyway, I may have a workaround for that. Maybe. I'll post it in chat later. Anyway, I'll make a proposal for my Civ...

I should point out that your "sign up thing" may not exactly be a mod strategy, for this IOT is set to be about you not you by you. The editors are a necessity; we will need a central leadership, less we have a mess like "lol super defence slaying spies lol." I would suggest Thor, RC, Tails, Sone (when he returns)... basically we need some chiefs to help organise and aid the mod, while vetoing any... problematic considerations like the "Steal Plan" idea.

 

[NinjaCow64]

That still does not cease the fact the "steal plans" etch would prove to make things easy. Do not use the A.I. as a excuse; single player has to be balanced too. Any rate the thing would spoil balance and quite frankly unconsidering. Hence it will be vetoed for quality and balance control.



We need a organisation, hence the confirmation... while the Triforce Facility may be "just thoughts... was set for ordering.

My though was Tyo had already a suggestion compensation... air transport etch that would replace his forbidden sea fleets. Wizards were one of his other icon... of course would require a alterative tech tree that would better reflect the IOT experience than the standard Civilization 4 tech tree.





I should point out that your "sign up thing" may not exactly be a mod strategy, for this IOT is set to be about you not you by you. The editors are a necessity; we will need a central leadership, less we have a mess like "lol super defence slaying spies lol." I would suggest Thor, RC, Tails, Sone (when he returns)... basically we need some chiefs to help organise and aid the mod, while vetoing any... problematic considerations like the "Steal Plan" idea.

No offense mate, but acting like you have this grand absolute authority just because you started the thread won't make people enthusiastic about the mod at all and may just kill it. I do object to the "Steal Plans", more on a pratical level than game balance because it would require Python to code and simpler is better when you are making stuff. I know this from my very limited understanding off mods, decent understanding of game design and early University level understanding of Software Engineering. Maybe when we get to a later stage where when we are confident we can actually work that stuff it would be a better idea. Anyway, Alied, all "vetoing" it and any discussion of it is just going to piss people off and make them less enthused about the game. Enthusiasm is all that's keeping this idea alfoat anyway.

We're not even IN quality control mode yet anyway. Ideas, even if they don't end up in the mod, are good, the more he better. Sorting those ideas come later. The only people who should have "veto" power should be the people actually coding the mod for stuff that is too difficult to make. And maybe, once we've play tested something enough we can determine it is unbalanced.

And this mod should be made by all of us, all our ideas combined. Otherwise the mod wouldn't be made by us. The signups will be really helpful when we get to a later stage in the game, as it will save time on the planning aspect of the game.

But yeah the main objection I have Alied is your frankly rude talk to Omega, it was pretty harsh and does nothing but hurt the development of this mod. You should apologise IMO.

tl;dr Ailedhoo, waving around your "authority" like you were just then does nothing but harm.