The Offtopicgrad Soviet: A Place to Discuss All Things Red

[Hygro]

yeah we're pretty stoked. Viva la evolution!

Especially really fast rapid evolution like a 50-100% wage increase that will put upward pressure on wages nationwide. This might be the start of something big.

 

[plarq]

...inflation.

While we can optimistically think about progressive socialism (i.e. socialist paradise, no Gulag, no NKVD, etc. ). The reality may be just oscillation between Keynesian and Friedman economics.

 

[Hygro]

...inflation.

Sigh. No. It's depressing how pervasive the cult of unfounded inflation fears is.

While we can optimistically think about progressive socialism (i.e. socialist paradise, no Gulag, no NKVD, etc. ). The reality may be just oscillation between Keynesian and Friedman economics.

That is the big fear, that we have these decades periods of growth and increasing equality followed by decades of corrupt upward wealth transfers and masked austerity. But there haven't been enough cycles of such a phenomenon to be too concerned that this is humanity's equilibrium.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

'Deported' from North Korea, American returns to the United States

And tell me again why 4 Cubans are still in US prisons serving life sentences for crimes they did nor.commit and convicted of by a Miami anti- Castro jury?

Even North Korea lets innocent foreigners go.

 

[Agent327]

... while firmly keeping its innocent citizens under lock and key.

You seem blissfully ignorant off the ongoing propaganda war around North Korea, while ignoring the question why NK should detain innocent people in the first place. Last I heard was than a US basketball star (or has been-star) visited the democratic republic and made great friends with the little great leader, whose uncle and former mentor seems to have fallen from grace. Ofcourse some trumped up charges were made public and all signs of the man removed from public record (as if there was no internet).

I'm interested though, what is your take on NK's ballistic tests? Will it advance NK's proletariat to unknown heights?

I'm not following the Cuban link really; you're worried about 4 Cubans vs the foreigners still being held at Guantanamo? I would have thought as a US citizen you would be firmly aware of how the US treats innocent foreigners. They are guilty until proven otherwise.

The Left, at least online, has done a great job of slandering her as a social democrat

I had to reread this before realizing we're talking your typical left in-crowd fighting.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Here is what happens to detainees and prisoners in the US

Christopher J. Mumola
October 11, 2007NCJ 219534

Presents the first findings from the law enforcement collection of the Deaths in Custody Reporting Program (DCRP), which is the largest resource of information ever collected on arrest-related deaths. The report provides counts of all arrest-related deaths reported by State authorities in over 40 States, over a three-year period (2003-2005), by cause of death and characteristics of the deceased. It also includes all manners of death during an arrest, including homicides (both those by officers and other persons), suicides, alcohol or drug intoxication deaths, accidental injuries, and fatal medical problems. The report presents counts of deaths by cause for each State. Appendix tables provide details on the circumstances surrounding arrest-related deaths including the criminal offenses for which the arrest attempt was made; the use of weapons or other behavior by the arrest subject; and use of weapons and restraint devices by officers involved in the arrest. The report also presents comparative counts of law enforcement homicides from DCRP and counts of justifiable homicides by police, collected by the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports program.

Highlights:

* Homicides by law enforcement officers made up 55% (1,095) of all deaths during arrests by State and local agencies. Eleven homicides were committed by other persons present at the scene.

* No other cause of death was reported half as often as homicide. Drug and alcohol intoxication accounted for 13% of all deaths, followed by suicides (12%), accidental injuries (7%), and illness or natural causes (6%).

* Three-quarters of the law enforcement homicides reported to DCRP involved arrests for a violent crime. Except for suicides (51%), violent offenders were involved in less than 30% of all other causes of death. Public-order offenders accounted for 8% of homicides, followed by property (4%) and drug offenders (2%).

 

[Crezth]

"Arrest-related deaths" is not 1:1 with extrajudicial killings. But a great deal of the problem has to do with too-broad laws, or silly illegalities. It's not a structural thing like arresting all who besmirch Dear Leader.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

That American dude was released...

What's your complaint? Some police murders are okay?

And Stalin gets criticism for indifference to life?

I won't get into the number of UNREQUESTED physician-assisted suicides that happen in the Netherlands, but I think it's possible if we want to nitpick about which system is.responsible for more deaths.

 

[Hygro]

That American dude was released...

What's your complaint? Some police murders are okay?

And Stalin gets criticism for indifference to life?

I won't get into the number of UNREQUESTED physician-assisted suicides that happen in the Netherlands, but I think it's possible if we want to nitpick about which system is.responsible for more deaths.

That's unfortunate, because in bringing it up in that context you are suggesting that (many of) those are done entirely unethically and without regard for human life, and possibly "innuendo-ing" (aside: anyone know a precise verb for this might be?) it as a method of social control.

However I suspect disinginuity, so no, please do get into the number and circumstances of non-requested physician-assisted suicides (an oxymoron) aka euthanasia.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

It is systemic and legal in Holland to murder.... period.

US prisons as a means of "social control" has failed and witnesses about 2000 deaths a year of prisoners who are not on life sentences and not on death row.

97% of inmates in NY state jails are there via plea bargains... not trials.

I would not mind anyone presenting stats on DPRK prisons.

And "Communist" Cuba has the most just justice system in the world.

 

[Hygro]

Nice sidestep from "it's legal in Holland" to the problem with the American prison system.

Unrequested euthanasia is pretty scary, of course. I don't know anything about the reality of Dutch non-suicide euthanasia, but I do know when someone is "I'm not even gonna bring up"ing something to rhetorically/politically convince me in lieu of facts and analysis of those facts.

Plea bargains in the US justice system? How we use them is a crime. Cuba having a great justice system? I take you seriously enough to put that in my head as a possibility worth exploring. But none of that has anything to do with Dutch euthanasia.

For example, can people opt out? How hard is it? What does it take to be euthanized without explicit permission? I'd imagine if you valued your life and didn't value someone else making that decision for you when you've been physically wrecked you'd be anxious enough to make sure you did opt out. Not that that's an excuse for it, since it can be (and I'm sure has been) abused.

But since you couched it in the frame of inhumane disregard for life, you'll have to make the case that it is systemically used with such disregard. My bet is that in the vast majority of even the cases when it was misused they thought they were honoring the individual's welfare, meaning it's not really in the same category of oppression.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I thought "unrequested euthanasia" was a euphemism for cops shooting people like its their job OHWAIT.

 

[Hygro]

Dude it's scary, cuz I had a cop threaten to arrest me for not wanting to give him a statement about a month ago. And I got borderline sarcastic with him after he already lost his nerve and threatened me. It's like, how close was I to getting shot or thrown into traffic or something? Or just thrown in jail for the night just for not giving him his ego boost? Makes me nervous.

I was reading old CFC posts and this guy in 2003 was calling the police out for what they do, and at the time I was like "WTH, the police make me feel safe, you cray" but now I'm like,

 

[timtofly]

If any one eventually gets a classless society going, I doubt it would last that way for long. Humans are not wired that way. In the modern so called class society of these United States, if you were to ask and get the truth out of the "group" we call police officers, they will admit that they are a class all by themselves. That is the only way they survive in certain environments.

 

[Agent327]

It is systemic and legal in Holland to murder.... period.

Despite your delusional statement about murder in the Netherlands being both systemic and legal (I wouldn't know a country where that is the case, actually) murder rates have miraculously gone down, not up.

97% of inmates in NY state jails are there via plea bargains... not trials.

I would not mind anyone presenting stats on DPRK prisons.

And "Communist" Cuba has the most just justice system in the world.

I wouldn't mind some stats to support those claims. Since you seem so well-informed about US prisons, it shouldn't be too hard to obtain the same from the Democratic People's Republic, now should it?

 

[ParkCungHee]

(aside: anyone know a precise verb for this might be?) .

>Implying.

 

[Hygro]

>Implying.

Word. Any closer? There's one or two connotations closer in my head I wanted to express, something even easy to deny. But that one's good, too, just a bit stronger.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

@Jeelen: you supply the stats.for .DPRK. As I said in another thread, I leave the role of Devil's advocate to the Devil's advocates.

@Hygro: apols for the poor wording. The statistic I saw was for unrequested physician-assisted deaths.

And to all who want to criticize DPRK, do provide the numbers, and context. Best to use DPRK sources, since I use US government sources to back my claims about how awful the US is...

I said in March (and had sourced articles to back my claim) that the US killed 20% of the population of the DPRK during the Korean War. So, until DPRK can beat that, I'd say they have the moral high ground, imho.

 

[Crezth]

It's not comparable. You have one country with free press which is relatively open and which you can expect to produce relatively honest statistics about itself, simply because the alternative is so much harder, versus an Orwellian dictatorship with the means and the methods to lie and deceive people about its true nature as a state.

I do not regard anyone who says the DPRK to have a moral high ground over the USA to be serious about liberty, let alone worker's revolution.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

@Creth: I don't need you to take anything seriously. But come up with stats or the argument's over. Because supposition is not fact. I presented stats to support my argument. The only counter is "well, DPRK would lie, anyway."

So, game over.