The origin of the white man!

[luiz]

Correct me if Im wrong, but I cant think of a mammal that lives in or around the Poles that is black. They all have white or very light colored fur.

Check this dark-skinned antartic mammal:

It didnt happen at once to everybody. First it began in one family unit, expanded to the tribe over time, that out into the greater Clan of peoples living in the area.

The question is why. How come a whole population would randomly develop a new eye form? The only theory that can explain that is the one that states that all asians come from mutant tribe who left Africa and settled there. Just like what happened to the whites in Europe.

 

[luiz]

How do we know that? By studying the genes and chromosomes of ancient people and comparing them with modern humans?

The skulls of ancient humans match the skull of blacks, along with other evidences.

 

[luiz]

The rarity of albinos seems to debunk that theory, luiz. How could there be a whole tribe of them?

There might be a sociological explanation. Albinos might have been discrimanted by the mainstream black african society, and thus could only be accepted as partner by another albino. The offspring of two albinos is necessarily an albino, and thus the population grew.

But, some process of gradual loss of pigmentation also raises questions. After all, eskimos have a darker skin tone than any european peoples. Shouldn't they be lighter?

Exactly. White skin is not a comparative advatage to live in the cold. The skimos do just fine.

I think our more immediate ancestors were not black, but had a lighter skin tone. Some went to Africa and became darker, some went to Europe and became lighter.

I believe most archeological evidence points that all men originated in Africa. The whites and asians and etc left, the blacks stayed.

Our ancestors are most likely an albino tribe that left Africa and settled somewhere in the Caucasus. After that they migrated West and replaced the Neanthertals as the dominant european humanoid.

 

[the mormegil]

We burn in the sun because we are unused to the sun. All of Northern Europe used to be forested so we had very little contact with the sun. Then we cut down all the trees so there was no shade.

 

[Kafka2]

Place a white European in the open all year round, with little clothing, and he won't be very white.

Melanoma is most likely to occur when people usused to the sun suddenly get lots of exposure and burn badly. Your more weather-beaten types are more resistant. In any event, when the average lifespan is 30 years it's unlikely that it'll be skin cancer that gets you.

 

[Pangur Bán]

The "white man" is not just white, eye color, hair type, teeth layout and bone structure define him as well.

However, the white man is almost impossible to define. If you mean the Nordic type, my theory is that they evolved in the northern European forest zone covering the territory between northern France and northern Russia. But, anyway...

In actual fact, as I have argued elsewhere, the out of Africa theory seems no more likely to be true than the "Chariots of the Gods" theory. White people, like Mongolian people and other races, probably mixed with different percentages of "pre-human" populations, or even, evolved in Eurasia from pre-human forms with interbreeding with other humans coming from Africa, or elsewhere. The idea that people wandered out of Africa in one big volkerwanderung, split up, and went their own pure separate ways to produce the modern races, without breeding with native populations, is totally childish: sounds to much like, the origins of European nations

I should also point out, that the "Black Man", as we normally define him, has his origins East of the Cameroon mountains from the sahara south to the ocean. That's the race who produce all the olympic medalists and boxing champions...not the black "race" in general.

 

[HalfBadger]

So perhaps the first humans were a mixed race, who, by a combination of genetics and human nature, became racially divided into tribes that spread.

Not to bring too much Christianity into this thread, but the bible somewhat supports this theory. Now Bare with me. Adam and Eve were the first 'humans'. They were created perfectly in gods imagine etc. So they woulnd't have had genetic diseases/recessive traist etc. So then when Sin came into the world, humans became less perfect and after the tower of babel incident, ppl who would somewhat understand each other would have grouped with each other and their common traits would become standards in a couple generations for their isolated tribes.

 

[HalfBadger]

Check this dark-skinned antartic mammal:

QUOTE]

Is it's skin really dark or just it's fur?

 

[Esckey]

I think it's both, cause seals are darker on the top then on the bottom.


Now I kinda agree with both sides here(Albino vs non-Albino) but some stuff still nags me about both sides.

A recessive(That's the one that stays right?) gene the limits the pigment of the skin would seem more reasonable then a whole comeing from a whole tribe of albinos. But Asians being decended from a group of people with same eye type sounds better then separate groups all developing the same gene to produce the same type of eye.

Now what about Native Americans? (Iroquis, Navejo, Mayans, Incas, Arawaks, the Brazilian tribes) They all have dark skin, and the closer to the equator the darker they are. How did that come to be?


So far all arguments seem pretty logical(cept the religious ones)

 

[Xen]

personally, it i snot how the white person dfeveloped, but how the black pigmintation did.

our closest special relitive, the chimp, is white skinned, pointing to a light skin colour ebeing the colour of the origional humans.

 

[Xen]

In actual fact, as I have argued elsewhere, the out of Africa theory seems no more likely to be true than the "Chariots of the Gods" theory. White people, like Mongolian people and other races, probably mixed with different percentages of "pre-human" populations, or even, evolved in Eurasia from pre-human forms with interbreeding with other humans coming from Africa, or elsewhere. The idea that people wandered out of Africa in one big volkerwanderung, split up, and went their own pure separate ways to produce the modern races, without breeding with native populations, is totally childish: sounds to much like, the origins of European nations

we talked about this very subjectin my Genetics class recentlly, lol, and while logically, youropinion makes sense, gentically, it dosent- with the completion of the human genome project two years ago, it has opend up a flood way fo infomation- one of the major areas being human evolution, and cmparitive genetics- modern humans are to closelly related to one another on the leval of the speices as a whole for thier ot have been localized mixing with proto humans

 

[luiz]

In actual fact, as I have argued elsewhere, the out of Africa theory seems no more likely to be true than the "Chariots of the Gods" theory. White people, like Mongolian people and other races, probably mixed with different percentages of "pre-human" populations, or even, evolved in Eurasia from pre-human forms with interbreeding with other humans coming from Africa, or elsewhere. The idea that people wandered out of Africa in one big volkerwanderung, split up, and went their own pure separate ways to produce the modern races, without breeding with native populations, is totally childish: sounds to much like, the origins of European nations

But what if the whites, the mongolians, etc already left Africa with characteristics already very similar to the modern ones?

 

[SeleucusNicator]

Luiz: nobody is arguming Lamarckism here.

What we're arguing is that since Northern environments are favorable to light skin and disfavorable to black skin there is going to be natural selection for lighter-skinned people. They will be less likely to get rickets or other such diseases from lack of Vitamin C and will therefore reproudce more, etc.

A group of standard prehistoric Africans would have migrated northward. The ligher skinned among them would reproduce more. Go forward some amount of time and you get "white people".

 

[luiz]

Luiz: nobody is arguming Lamarckism here.

What we're arguing is that since Northern environments are favorable to light skin and disfavorable to black skin there is going to be natural selection for lighter-skinned people. They will be less likely to get rickets or other such diseases from lack of Vitamin C and will therefore reproudce more, etc.

A group of standard prehistoric Africans would have migrated northward. The ligher skinned among them would reproduce more. Go forward some amount of time and you get "white people".

Natural Selection only takes place if the unfit are eliminated BEFORE procreation. Blacks in Norhern Europe are perfectly able to live until reproduction. They are not as adapted as the whites, but this is not nearly enough to select white people.

 

[aaminion00]

This thread will talk about the origins of the Aryan barbarians that lived in east central Asia.

They have little to do with today's whites. The Aryans you talk of were one half of today's Indians, the other being the Dravidians found in Southern India, who in ancient times developed the Indus Valley civilization. The Aryans were an Indo-European people who moved from the Caucus, where most of the Indo-European linguistic group originated, and moved to India in the 2nd millenium B.C. They have little to do with the origin of todays "white race", except for the Nazis stealing that name.

Seeing as though the black has all the physical advantages over other white races.

Am I the only one who noticed this? What do you base this idiotic statement on? The NBA?

White man can't tolerate the hot climates, or they will get skin cancer.

And the black man can't tolerate colder climates, or they will get frostbite. Please. Stupid logic, no basis in scientific fact, and walking a fine line between debate and racism.

Seeing that humans originated in Africa I would expect the first men to have been "black" or something close to it.

Agreed.

As humans migrated north, the environment was more and more favorable to those with lighter skin, since the amount of sunlight decreased. Individuals with dark skin could absorb far less sunlight and therefore died of things such as rickets, causing natural selection towards whites.

I believe reading in Discover magazine that the reason for the difference in skin tone is ultra violet radiation. Scientists discovered a few years back that ultraviolet radiation rates roughly corresponded to skin tone on the earth. I believe that "whiteness" originated from evolution to this correspondance.

Keep in mind, though, that all the while humans in Africa were not holding steady; they were developing as well, simply to African conditions.

Excellent point.

The furthest east speakers of the Indo-European languages came was Xinjiang, the so-called Tocharians. Note that this is in reference to language, rather than race.

Were these the people that after Chinese expansion in the area migrated and founded the state of Kushan in modern day Pakistan?

IIRC, 'white' men arose fr a genetic mutation, which resulted in their particular skin pigmentation (or lack of), somewhere in north Europe a few thousand years ago.

Did the same thing happen to Asians?

I should also point out, that the "Black Man", as we normally define him, has his origins East of the Cameroon mountains from the sahara south to the ocean. That's the race who produce all the olympic medalists and boxing champions...not the black "race" in general.

While I don't deny that genetics may have something to do with it, keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of these black boxing champions come from the U.S., Canada, or the U.K., always one of the three. You'll never see a black boxing champion from Nigeria. Also, the olympic medalists all come from East Africa, particularly Kenya, it's not as if all africans are track stars.

 

[Pangur Bán]

we talked about this very subjectin my Genetics class recentlly, lol, and while logically, youropinion makes sense, gentically, it dosent- with the completion of the human genome project two years ago, it has opend up a flood way fo infomation- one of the major areas being human evolution, and cmparitive genetics- modern humans are to closelly related to one another on the leval of the speices as a whole for thier ot have been localized mixing with proto humans

The hole here are the other humanoids whose genetics we have no access to. A random scattering of skeletons really doesn't tell us that much...

 

[Pangur Bán]

While I don't deny that genetics may have something to do with it, keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of these black boxing champions come from the U.S., Canada, or the U.K., always one of the three. You'll never see a black boxing champion from Nigeria. Also, the olympic medalists all come from East Africa, particularly Kenya, it's not as if all africans are track stars.

Indeed; however, I think you will start seeing them emerge from west/southern Africa in the future. Sprinting and boxing, rather than long-distance stamina testing sports are where they seem to have advantages.

The other thing to remember, and this is really sordid, is that many slaves were picked for their physical abilit. The blacks who are in the Anglo-Saxons countries largely come via the Caribbean; selective breeding for humans may have had an effect, although I can't think of any evidence to prove that it did...

 

[Birdjaguar]

Claiming that albinos were the origin of the white race is just stupid.

 

[aaminion00]

Indeed; however, I think you will start seeing them emerge from west/southern Africa in the future. Sprinting and boxing, rather than long-distance stamina testing sports are where they seem to have advantages.

The other thing to remember, and this is really sordid, is that many slaves were picked for their physical abilit. The blacks who are in the Anglo-Saxons countries largely come via the Caribbean; selective breeding for humans may have had an effect, although I can't think of any evidence to prove that it did...

Interesting points, especially the second. Perhaps now after 400 years of slavery selective breeding has had an effect on humans. Another thing is to remember that the blacks in the U.S. have mixed with the whites, due to the raps by the plantation owners.

 

[Xen]

Claiming that albinos were the origin of the white race is just stupid.

I fully agree with this statement- albinoism is a fully recessive trait, and aside from there litterally being 0 chance of a population exhibiting mass abinimism, the populution would have to be at least 1- severl huindred strong, or else it woulve surcommend to inbreeding long, long, long ago, and since its (albinism) is a recissive triat, any mixing with those who do not hav it would result in a normal child.

more over, there is the fact that albinism serves absolutley no purpose in amking a person better adapted to thier enviroment, other then making them colder in cold enviroments, and makign them stick out mor ein nono cold enviroments, in other words, its a trait that only weeds itself out of a population.