The Other Americans - The Mutt People

The Last Conformist said:
I suppose we now know why the average height of white Americans is falling behind that of their genetic brethren in Europe.

It is? Wow, I would like to see the stats on this if you have it.

Sounds like many of these people should have their kids taken away by the social authorities. But that, I guess, is simply not how things are done in America.

Oh believe me, kids get taken away from bad parents. But its not consistent enough...sometimes good people get their kids taken away and sometimes kids are not taken away quick enough and get hurt..even killed. Its a real sucky situation to try and determine the fine line where its ok to take kids and when its not.
 
vyapti said:
My Opinion: Parent Apathy.

Food Stamps are available. Food Banks suppliment them. Schools have free food programs for qualifying students. It doesn't matter. People sell their food stamps or spend them on chips and soda. Maybe they trade them for drugs. In any case, a lot of students get one square meal a day - the one at school.

Its not that the system doesn't provide the resources. In college, I my family of five survived quite well on the provided food stamps. Its that people make bad choices. Many, Many people just want the cash and are happy with their lifestyle. They don't want to work and they don't want to improve themselves. Often, they had more kids to improve their welfare benefits.

I've run nutrition and energy programs (social service) programs for years and have seen this first hand. People work in this industry to help the 1 in 10 people that will do something with the help. The other 9 are a lost cause.

see, you're right about a lot of that. Thats a big reason why i think Welfare in America needs to be looked at again, because a lot of these programs, like food stamps, are too easily abused.

I still think the concept of welfare is imporant, and many people are able to use it as a stepping stone to good jobs, but for many others, including many in the cultural group we're talking about here, abuse it. Personally, i think that the food stamps program ought to be scaled back, at least in what foods one can and cannot obtain with it. I think measures that Clinton implimented were positive, but i think we can do better.

This culture group doesnt need welfare. what they really need is a job, and a solid place for their kids (and themselves, if they're up to it) to attend school
 
Kayak said:
That is too simplistic. Since school funding comes from local property taxes many towns can not increase spending on schools. This is especialt true now that Federal tax cuts have forced local goverments to pick op the slack on cuts to programs that have been Federaly funded in the past. In addition if the Feds just pitched money in, many towns would just cut their school budget to get "free" money.

thats exactly right. This isnt something that we can just say "vote democrat, because then they'll put more money in schools and we'll be okay", because it isnt that simple. It doesnt matter if there is a million-dollar school built, if parents cant help their kids with homework. Plus, if nobody has gainful employment, how can they afford higher taxes for schooling? where will they find good administrators to run the school?

Basically, there is such a dearth of talent in education in these areas that they're going to have to bring in outside help. The problem is in getting good teachers and administrators to go work in crappy districts with poor infastructure, crappy pay, and the worst part, live in an area that doesnt value education.

If i knew the 100% failsafe answer, i'd drop out of college right now, go down to southern Ohio, fix everything, and get rich. I have a few ideas, like expanding alternative learning programs (charter schools, JVS, trade school, etc), which provide people with skills to make them employible, (which will attract bussinesses and investment), tweaking the welfare system, and having more young, talented teachers do a year in an "in need school district", before they can get certain licences.
 
MattBrown said:
Basically, there is such a dearth of talent in education in these areas that they're going to have to bring in outside help. The problem is in getting good teachers and administrators to go work in crappy districts with poor infastructure, crappy pay, and the worst part, live in an area that doesnt value education.

So true. I knew I wanted out of my hometown. A primary reason I joined the military is I could make more money than a teacher in my hometown (didn't realize that in some places they actually paid a living wage to them) and certainly more than I would in on a farm or in one of the two small factories.
 
Kayak said:
That is too simplistic. Since school funding comes from local property taxes many towns can not increase spending on schools. This is especialt true now that Federal tax cuts have forced local goverments to pick op the slack on cuts to programs that have been Federaly funded in the past. In addition if the Feds just pitched money in, many towns would just cut their school budget to get "free" money.
I was assuming control and founding of schools being transfered to the state or even federal level.
 
MobBoss said:
It is? Wow, I would like to see the stats on this if you have it.
Wiki has some raw data on average height in different countries - there is also some discussion of trends:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

Some articles on the subject from google:
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040405fa_fact
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3625031.stm
http://montages.blogspot.com/2005/06/can-america-stand-tall-again.html
http://www.organicconsumers.org/corp/shrinking041404.cfm
 
I'm not sure I want to know how malnutrition can be a common problem in a country like America.

Is it really so surprising? It should be much easier to get access to clean drinking water than to have adequate amounts of healthy food, yet the vast majority of the world lives in a constant state of dehydration.

It's not a matter of food or water being available, it's a matter of choice. Just like most of the world choses to drink coffee, tea, soda, beer or whatever instead of water, many poorer people would rather buy potato chips and other junk food instead of anything healthy.
 
The Last Conformist said:
I was assuming control and founding of schools being transfered to the state or even federal level.
Here is an interesting peice that gives insight on how the Federal Govt really funds schools:
NO CHILD'S BEHIND LEFT: THE TEST
Tuesday, January 10, 2006

by Greg Palast

New York -- Today and tomorrow every 8-year-old in the state of New York will take a test. It's part of George Bush's No Child Left Behind program. The losers will be left behind to repeat the third grade. Try it yourself. This is from the state's actual practice test. Ready, class?

"The year 1999 was a big one for the Williams sisters. In February, Serena won her first pro singles championship. In March, the sisters met for the first time in a tournament final. Venus won. And at doubles tennis, the Williams girls could not seem to lose that year."

And here's one of the four questions:

"The story says that in 1999, the sisters could not seem to lose at doubles tennis. This probably means when they played

A two matches in one day
B against each other
C with two balls at once
D as partners"

OK, class, do you know the answer? (By the way, I didn't cheat: there's nothing else about "doubles" in the text.)

My kids go to a New York City school in which more than half the students live below the poverty line. There is no tennis court.

There are no tennis courts in the elementary schools of Bed-Stuy or East Harlem. But out in the Hamptons, every school has a tennis court. In Forest Hills, Westchester and Long Island's North Shore, the schools have nearly as many tennis courts as the school kids have live-in maids.

Now, you tell me, class, which kids are best prepared to answer the question about "doubles tennis"? The 8-year-olds in Harlem who've never played a set of doubles or the kids whose mommies disappear for two hours every Wednesday with Enrique the tennis pro?

Is this test a measure of "reading comprehension" -- or a measure of wealth accumulation?

If you have any doubts about what the test is measuring, look at the next question, based on another part of the text, which reads (and I could not make this up):

"Most young tennis stars learn the game from coaches at private clubs. In this sentence, a club is probably a

F baseball bat
G tennis racquet
H tennis court
J country club"

Helpfully, for the kids in our 'hood, it explains that a "country club" is a, "place where people meet." Yes, but which people?

President Bush told us, "By passing the No Child Left Behind Act, we are regularly testing every child and making sure they have better options when schools are not performing."

But there are no "better options." In the delicious double-speak of class war, when the tests have winnowed out the chaff and kids stamped failed, No Child Left results in that child being left behind in the same grade to repeat the failure another year.

I can't say that Mr. Bush doesn't offer better options to the kids stamped failed. Under No Child Left, if enough kids flunk the tests, their school is marked a failure and its students win the right, under the law, to transfer to any successful school in their district. You can't provide more opportunity than that. But they don't provide it, the law promises it, without a single penny to make it happen. In New York in 2004, a third of a million students earned the right to transfer to better schools -- in which there were only 8,000 places open.

New York is typical. Nationwide, only one out of two-hundred students eligible to transfer manage to do it. Well, there's always the Army. (That option did not go unnoticed: No Child has a special provision requiring schools to open their doors to military recruiters.)

Hint: When de-coding politicians' babble, to get to the real agenda, don't read their lips, read their budgets. And in his last budget, our President couldn't spare one thin dime for education, not ten cents. Mr. Big Spender provided for a derisory 8.4 cents on the dollar of the cost of primary and secondary schools. Congress appropriated a half penny of the nation's income -- just one-half of one-percent of America's twelve trillion dollar GDP -- for primary and secondary education.

President Bush actually requested less. While Congress succeeded in prying out an itty-bitty increase in voted funding, that doesn't mean the extra cash actually gets to the students. Fifteen states have sued the federal government on the grounds that the cost of new testing imposed on schools, $3.9 billion, eats up the entire new funding budgeted for No Child Left.

There are no "better options" for failing children, but there are better uses for them. The President ordered testing and more testing to hunt down, identify and target millions of children too expensive, too heavy a burden, to educate.

No Child Left offers no options for those with the test-score Mark of Cain -- no opportunities, no hope, no plan, no funding. Rather, it is the new social Darwinism, educational eugenics: identify the nation's loser-class early on. Trap them then train them cheap.

Someone has to care for the privileged. No society can have winners without lots and lots of losers. And so we have No Child Left Behind -- to provide the new worker drones that will clean the toilets at the Yale Alumni Club, punch the cash registers color-coded for illiterates, and pamper the winner-class on the higher floors of the new economic order.

Class war dismissed.

**********

Greg Palast is the author of the New York Times bestseller, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. Read his investigative reports at www.GregPalast.com
Link:http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=476&row=1
 
Shaihulud said:
Its just so sad that he believes what he is espousing. So angsty, proud yet ashame of his "barbaric traditions".

I got bored reading it half way through. The guy was clearly just some whiny idiot who hates himself.
 
The Last Conformist said:

Holy cow, what are they feeding those kids in the Netherlands?
 
Oerdin said:
I got bored reading it half way through. The guy was clearly just some whiny idiot who hates himself.
And you are a lazy, self centered one? Try to get though it and look at it as a part of a larger problem.
 
MobBoss said:
Self-hating white kid. If he had written the same thing about another ethinic group he would be labeled a racist bigot.
Words right out of my mouth. If your white christian male these days then your fair game for racist remarks, but god help you if you say anything negative about a black man, a woman, a or a jew.
 
The problems here have, in my mind, very little to do with religion. It doesnt matter if these guys are christian, hindu, jewish, nothing, etc.

keep in mind, that many people have written critiques of problems with poverty and black culture. I dont think that I am qualified to give an opinion fully on them (my upbringing was more rural, and i had far more contact with poor, anglo "hillbillies"), but many have said there is truth to them. I think the "hillbilly" culture and the "ghetto" culture have some similarities.

Yes, the tone of the article in question was not a good one, and perhaps some things were embelished. But let me tell you, and everybody, that there are some *serious* problems with this culture group, in regards to poverty, education, health care, class mobility etc. The fact that the article may have embelished a few things doesnt make the problem any less severe.
 
MobBoss said:
Holy cow, what are they feeding those kids in the Netherlands?

Mobboss, if i had to guess, whatever it is, its more healthy that what kids are getting in West Virgina
 
MattJek said:
Words right out of my mouth. If your white christian male these days then your fair game for racist remarks, but god help you if you say anything negative about a black man, a woman, a or a jew.

Bull. Many people came rushing to the defense of Bill Cosby when he did the same thing. If you haven't seen self-hating jewish or black literature, then you simply have not read it, because it certainly exists.

It's a very honest look at how he was raised nad where he came from. It is hardly my world, or the world i came from, but I have no doubt the mindset and world exists.
 
MattJek said:
Words right out of my mouth. If your white christian male these days then your fair game for racist remarks, but god help you if you say anything negative about a black man, a woman, a or a jew.

And it's this mindset that will never solve the valid problems he brings up.
 
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