DBear
unbeliever
Seeing as that article is from smirkingchimp.com, it is not to be taken seriously. 
The Other Americans - The Mutt People
- Thread starter Kayak
- Start date
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Self-hating white kid. If he had written the same thing about another ethinic group he would be labeled a racist bigot.
See, i dont think you guys understand the poor "white trash" culture here very well. There is MORE needed than just education. You cant just ship these guys off to college. Its their very culture thats holding them back right now.
these guys do not even want to go to college. they do not want to go to school. They do not want to "get above their rasin'"
what do I mean? How do I know? Well...its where I grew up, and where i used to work.
Before i went to college and moved out of Ohio, i worked with my mother and disadvantaged school systems in Southern Ohio. Southerm Ohio is right smack in the middle of the poor, anglo, "white-trash" belt, that extends into kentucky and west virgina. You'll go into towns without plumbing and with dirt floors. 8 kids, chickens, running around everywhere. Welfare money spent on a big screen satalite TV. If you stay too long here, you're going to want to become a republican, because its so frusterating.
So here we are, trying to build up their school systems, so these guys stand a chance. But get this...THEIR PARENTS DONT WANT THEM TO DO WELL IN SCHOOL. Their grandpappy sort of graduated and went to the coal mines. Pappy did the same thing, and dammit, their son is not better than grandpappy and pappy, so thats what he's going to do.
I know, us middle-classers prob cant fathom that, but thats the truth. Why would a kid want to go to school, if everybody in the town tells him not to? there's the problem, and im not sure how to fix it.
As for AA and the poor whites....It isnt really advertsied, but in Ohio anyway, they sort of already have that system. I know, for at least the three good schools in the state (Maimi(OH), Ohio State and Case Western), admissions and fin. aid looks at the high school that one graduated from. if they see a kid with all A's from one of the awful southern schools like Jackson or Ironton, they try to get that kid the hell out of there, by throwing him extra money. The state schools here try extra hard to find every deserving student who WANTS to go, and stick them in their school. There just arent as many. Part of it is because the public schools are awful. Part of it is the rampant unemployment. The biggest part is the culture that doesnt want kids to sucseed.
these guys do not even want to go to college. they do not want to go to school. They do not want to "get above their rasin'"
what do I mean? How do I know? Well...its where I grew up, and where i used to work.
Before i went to college and moved out of Ohio, i worked with my mother and disadvantaged school systems in Southern Ohio. Southerm Ohio is right smack in the middle of the poor, anglo, "white-trash" belt, that extends into kentucky and west virgina. You'll go into towns without plumbing and with dirt floors. 8 kids, chickens, running around everywhere. Welfare money spent on a big screen satalite TV. If you stay too long here, you're going to want to become a republican, because its so frusterating.
So here we are, trying to build up their school systems, so these guys stand a chance. But get this...THEIR PARENTS DONT WANT THEM TO DO WELL IN SCHOOL. Their grandpappy sort of graduated and went to the coal mines. Pappy did the same thing, and dammit, their son is not better than grandpappy and pappy, so thats what he's going to do.
I know, us middle-classers prob cant fathom that, but thats the truth. Why would a kid want to go to school, if everybody in the town tells him not to? there's the problem, and im not sure how to fix it.
As for AA and the poor whites....It isnt really advertsied, but in Ohio anyway, they sort of already have that system. I know, for at least the three good schools in the state (Maimi(OH), Ohio State and Case Western), admissions and fin. aid looks at the high school that one graduated from. if they see a kid with all A's from one of the awful southern schools like Jackson or Ironton, they try to get that kid the hell out of there, by throwing him extra money. The state schools here try extra hard to find every deserving student who WANTS to go, and stick them in their school. There just arent as many. Part of it is because the public schools are awful. Part of it is the rampant unemployment. The biggest part is the culture that doesnt want kids to sucseed.
Lot of good insight in there.
There is an outlet that is battling the commoditizement of knowledge, the internet.
He said what I have known for a long time, but a tad more brutally.
When I was in jail, every single one of those guys was a hard core conservative, dumb as nails, and doped up on government meds.
Wow, that was a real interesting read. I love that kind of brutal honesty and self-reflection. Some real interesting statistics about the rurality of the American serving in Iraq.
And where did that W and firecrackers up frog's butt's thing come from... I've heard it before.
There is an outlet that is battling the commoditizement of knowledge, the internet.
He said what I have known for a long time, but a tad more brutally.
When I was in jail, every single one of those guys was a hard core conservative, dumb as nails, and doped up on government meds.
Wow, that was a real interesting read. I love that kind of brutal honesty and self-reflection. Some real interesting statistics about the rurality of the American serving in Iraq.
And where did that W and firecrackers up frog's butt's thing come from... I've heard it before.
Irish Caesar
Yellow Jacket
A sad but true commentary on what is holding this country back.
The mentality isn't only with the "poor whites," the "mutts," but also the elites in Cambridge and New York and San Francisco. Coming from the Northeast, I knew a lot of people who looked down on the Southern part of this country, teachers included. There is a need for education across this country, and it just ain't happening.
I think what is saddest about the whole situation is that it is the elite in the government who start wars (remember, George Bush was born in Connecticut and graduated from Yale, he's not a Texan by birth), and the elite in Harvard and Columbia who condemn them not on the grounds of losing so many Americans, but on the grounds of the Iraqis/extremist Muslims/Taliban/etc. From my observations, I'd say that the trouble with this country is that so much of it is uneducated and has little future. The bigger trouble is that no one in the elite seems to care enough about it to actually do something.
The mentality isn't only with the "poor whites," the "mutts," but also the elites in Cambridge and New York and San Francisco. Coming from the Northeast, I knew a lot of people who looked down on the Southern part of this country, teachers included. There is a need for education across this country, and it just ain't happening.
I think what is saddest about the whole situation is that it is the elite in the government who start wars (remember, George Bush was born in Connecticut and graduated from Yale, he's not a Texan by birth), and the elite in Harvard and Columbia who condemn them not on the grounds of losing so many Americans, but on the grounds of the Iraqis/extremist Muslims/Taliban/etc. From my observations, I'd say that the trouble with this country is that so much of it is uneducated and has little future. The bigger trouble is that no one in the elite seems to care enough about it to actually do something.
Well I think what Matt was saying, and I would have ot agree from observation, is you can take a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.
We can throw all the money in the world at some of these people, but if their family does not prize education, then the kids will not care to learn. (This article reminds me of the movie Gummo)
there is an unfortunate glorification of stupidity, and there also is definitely parents who want to see their kids grow up and be miserable, just like them. Indeed, in many ways, I recognized this in my own mother, allthough not in relation to education.
We can throw all the money in the world at some of these people, but if their family does not prize education, then the kids will not care to learn. (This article reminds me of the movie Gummo)
there is an unfortunate glorification of stupidity, and there also is definitely parents who want to see their kids grow up and be miserable, just like them. Indeed, in many ways, I recognized this in my own mother, allthough not in relation to education.
vyapti
Prince
Brain Drain is a big problem in rural America. There is no economic opportunity in their home towns, so the kids that can excel in college do so and often don't return. This happens with every new crop of kids. The result is a community of undereducated adults that either don't value education or never thought they could go. And don't think there's anything wrong with the way they live.MattBrown said:
Once you get outside the Big City, conditions worsen. The Big City I just moved from had 20,000 people, including 8,000 college students. Government jobs (34% of workers) were the only real source of opportunity. After that, you worked in the service industry. Amongst the poor, few worked full time, many didn't work. Meth (the white-trash drug of choice) was a huge problem. In the rural areas, I saw squalor I didn't think existed in the US. This is a lifestyle. The residents don't want to change. Those that do leave.
I worked with a guy with no teeth or dentures. He lived in a fifth wheel on a relative's property. He showered in their mobile home. His cousin was was developmentally disabled and slept with her brother. He also lived on the property with a recently released level 3 sex offender and his girlfriend (a former victim). This situation was completely normal to him and, in ecomonic terms, he was well off in the area he lived.
blackheart
unenlightened
I agree with what MattBrown said. The solution is complicated. Seems like a good mass brainwashing is required.
Kayak
Partisan
DBear, what are you for, what DO you take seriously?DBear said:Seeing as that article is from smirkingchimp.com, it is not to be taken seriously.
What Matt said.
Kayak
Partisan
I agree as well, the situation is very complicated.blackheart said:
@Matt, My first impulse is to look to primary school to start addressing these problems. I find it hard to care about anyone who wants to be in a situation like that, but I feel for those who want out or who do not know there is an out to get to.
vyapti
Prince
Primary schools in poor areas have plenty of problems. Parental involvement is low and kids aren't supported at home, kids are often undernourished - which leads to poor performance. Language barriers often exist. The schools are often poorly funded (poor districts) and have difficulty attracting quality teachers.
Before Bush, Head Start's focus was on improving nutrition and family involvement, two components that greatly improve scholastic success. Bush has since instructed Head Start to teach--well and good, but these kids have a host of barriers that need to be addressed.
Before Bush, Head Start's focus was on improving nutrition and family involvement, two components that greatly improve scholastic success. Bush has since instructed Head Start to teach--well and good, but these kids have a host of barriers that need to be addressed.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
I'm not sure I want to know how malnutrition can be a common problem in a country like America.
Kayak
Partisan
You're right, you don't.The Last Conformist said:
@vyapti. Yes I know this. But, as I noted earlier, we currently require national educational standards and test to see if we are acheiving them (a whole other story I know). Given this it seems to me we can require some sort of per student funding, with Federal assistance perhapse to poored districts. It will never be perfect, educated parents will alway be able to help their children more, etc.
vyapti
Prince
The Last Conformist said:
My Opinion: Parent Apathy.
Food Stamps are available. Food Banks suppliment them. Schools have free food programs for qualifying students. It doesn't matter. People sell their food stamps or spend them on chips and soda. Maybe they trade them for drugs. In any case, a lot of students get one square meal a day - the one at school.
Its not that the system doesn't provide the resources. In college, I my family of five survived quite well on the provided food stamps. Its that people make bad choices. Many, Many people just want the cash and are happy with their lifestyle. They don't want to work and they don't want to improve themselves. Often, they had more kids to improve their welfare benefits.
I've run nutrition and energy programs (social service) programs for years and have seen this first hand. People work in this industry to help the 1 in 10 people that will do something with the help. The other 9 are a lost cause.
Kayak said:
If I had to look at the first place to start, i think i would agree. Lets put higher education aside for a second. Primiary schooling is the biggest issue. In Ohio (and i think WV does it the same way), public schools are funded with property taxes. That means, surprise, that poor areas dont have enough money to function. Several schools get more income and supplies from donations up north than from their tax base. Without money, they cant attract good teaching talent, the community doesnt support the school (outside of football teams), and its a cycle.
I really dont know of a way to improve the funding system without destroying the best public schools in the state. we could create some form of a funding back, where everybody pays money to the state, and they deal it out, but that hurts the schools that are doing well.
The problems arent just education...but moral and cultural. Some of the towns i worked in reminded me a big of Africa, as far as sexual education is concerned. No self control, no doctors, no protection, and nowhere to go. Mommy had me at 16, why cant I start popping kids out then? Its what people do. Measures to stop teenage pregnancy and STDs (and i dont just mean handing out Condoms here. I dont think a lot of these kids, or adults, really understand the risks that come with being sexually active. There really isnt a sense of personal acountibility) need to step up as well.
I dont mean to sound like a bigot, but there really are parts of America, in RED STATE AND IN BLUE, (and both rural and urban, although i think for different reasons), that look and feel like third world countries. We need to get serious about building these places up.
Che Guava
The Juicy Revolutionary
MattBrown said:
If that was done, it would at least get people to take a hard look at how much funding schools get and probably create a more 'progressive' tax system whereby citizens would pay based on thier ability to give and money would move out of the richer areas and into the poorer ones. I think it might be a painful, but necessary solution
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
I suppose we now know why the average height of white Americans is falling behind that of their genetic brethren in Europe.vyapti said:
Incidentally, how many of these "mutt" people are we speaking of? Millions?
Sounds like many of these people should have their kids taken away by the social authorities. But that, I guess, is simply not how things are done in America.
Sounds like a depressing job ...
If reducing founding to good schools is unacceptable, increasing the total money spent is the logical solution.Matt Brown said:
I suppose the locals will successfully prevent that by voting GOP ...
Kayak
Partisan
The Last Conformist said:
Thats so we can fit into smaller japanese cars.Yes, millions.
We would have to build internment camps. Not a workable solution, or a humane one really.
That is too simplistic. Since school funding comes from local property taxes many towns can not increase spending on schools. This is especialt true now that Federal tax cuts have forced local goverments to pick op the slack on cuts to programs that have been Federaly funded in the past. In addition if the Feds just pitched money in, many towns would just cut their school budget to get "free" money.
