[GS] The Ottomans Discussion Thread

[Trav'ling Canuck]

EDIT: I've also come to the potential conclusion that building a unit that requires a resource does not actually use up the resource, but merely requires it in stock, as the Janissary tool tip in the build menu says "requires 20 nitre"

Have we seen anything to contradict this? If true, that would imply you could build limitless numbers of units, as long as you have the base minimum stockpiled somewhere. In other words, just a more complicated version of the current requirement to have 2 copies of a resource (or 1 if upgrading or in an Encampment).

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Have we seen anything to contradict this? If true, that would imply you could build limitless numbers of units, as long as you have the base minimum stockpiled somewhere. In other words, just a more complicated version of the current requirement to have 2 copies of a resource (or 1 if upgrading or in an Encampment).

I'm pretty sure building a unit would consume the strategic resource. Otherwise, the whole mechanic would be rather pointless. And the marketing does say "consumable strategic resources" as a new mechanic in GS.

 

[KayAU]

Have we seen anything to contradict this? If true, that would imply you could build limitless numbers of units, as long as you have the base minimum stockpiled somewhere. In other words, just a more complicated version of the current requirement to have 2 copies of a resource (or 1 if upgrading or in an Encampment).

I don't think it makes much sense at all to do it that way. It would just serve as a delay. Hopefully this can be clarified in today's livestream.

 

[SmashPig5]

I realise it'd strange if the latter conclusion were true, I'm just saying what I saw; the Janissary did not consume 20 nitre when it was built, despite saying it required it in the build menu

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

I realise it'd strange if the latter conclusion were true, I'm just saying what I saw; the Janissary did not consume 20 nitre when it was built, despite saying it required it in the build menu

Well they have appearently enough nitre mines to produce 22 nitre maybe? That would increase the nitre resources from 28 to 30 while consuming 20 for the Jannisary unit.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I'm pretty sure building a unit would consume the strategic resource. Otherwise, the whole mechanic would be rather pointless. And the marketing does say "consumable strategic resources" as a new mechanic in GS.

We know Uranium, Oil, and Coal are consumable, and used on a per turn basis by Power Plants and certain units.

I assumed the same rules applied to units that required a certain number of strategic resources to build (Nitre, Iron, Horses). But possibly not. Possibly you just can't build them as soon as you create a mine/pasture: there's a delay until you build up enough, and then you can build units? Which would also mean you need a large enough stockpiling location (Encampment(s)) in order to get to the required amount to start building these units.

This would also explain the wording on Canada's bonus production to "consumable resources": might only apply to Uranium, Oil, and Coal, not to Nitre, Iron, and Horses.

Or maybe it works as I expected and building a unit that requires 20 Iron uses up 20 Iron. I was just curious as to whether we've seen from the First Looks clear evidence that a stockpile of Iron/Nitre/Horses is reduced when a unit is built.

 

[SmashPig5]

Well they have appearently enough nitre mines to produce 22 nitre maybe? That would increase the nitre resources from 28 to 30 while consuming 20 for the Jannisary unit.

How many mines would that require though? If we assume that it's either 1 or 2 per mine, that requires a minimum of 11 mines, and if we assume we can increase that to 3 or 4 by some means, then 6 minimum, and whilst nitre isn't rare, it's not that common, and their empire doesn't look big enough in the first look video to field that large a number of nitre mines.

 

[SmashPig5]

Also consider that, on the same turn, they get only 3 iron. What's the likelihood of having an income of 3 iron per turn but 22 nitre per turn? Granted, there could be explanations for that, it seems not implausible, but less plausible

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Also consider that, on the same turn, they get only 3 iron. What's the likelihood of having an income of 3 iron per turn but 22 nitre per turn?

Well keep in mind that the First Look videos surely aren't pulled from a natural played game state, and are surely set up in a worldbuilder or whatever.

But I'm having a hard time visualizing all of the new resource components too--might be one of those things where I have to see it personally to "get" it.

 

[SmashPig5]

Well keep in mind that the First Look videos surely aren't pulled from a natural played game state, and are surely set up in a worldbuilder or whatever.

But I'm having a hard time visualizing all of the new resource components too--might be one of those things where I have to see it personally to "get" it.

That is true, it was one of the possibilities I had considered. Are there any other instances where we see a unit that requires resources built or upgraded to? There surely is in the other live streams and first looks. That might help us understand, or we could just wait patiently and find out in due time.

 

[bbbt]

I realise it'd strange if the latter conclusion were true, I'm just saying what I saw; the Janissary did not consume 20 nitre when it was built, despite saying it required it in the build menu

If you look at the initial janissary built in the first look - the one that actually pops up the Janissary graphic on the timeline and that they promote - the nitre drops from the 48 to 28. I'd guess that one was likely actually built (or more likely bought) to trigger the timeline, and deducted 20 nitre. The second one just 'appears' - you don't see them select build/buy on the menu - was likely just added with firetuner.

 

[SmashPig5]

If you look at the initial janissary built in the first look - the one that actually pops up the Janissary graphic on the timeline and that they promote - the nitre drops from the 48 to 28. I'd guess that one was likely actually built (or more likely bought) to trigger the timeline, and deducted 20 nitre. The second one just 'appears' - you don't see them select build/buy on the menu - was likely just added with firetuner.

Very true, but that one can be assumed to have been upgraded to, rather than built, since the flash of light is where you can then see the Janissary outside of the city after, and it already has one promotion on top of the free one as a Janissary.

 

[Victoria]

This is incorrect. They have a unique governor.

True

Although it takes 5 turns for him to establish so may only work for 1~2 cities per civ.

3 turns and he can establish himself in enemy cities apparently... so yeah, this does make them very strong... some competition for Magnus

 

[blackcatatonic]

Apologies if this has been discussed already; I'm too lazy to search the thread.

Is there a livestream today?

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Apologies if this has been discussed already; I'm too lazy to search the thread.

Is there a livestream today?

Yes. Same place, same time.

 

[Sostratus]

EDIT: I've also come to the potential conclusion that building a unit that requires a resource does not actually use up the resource, but merely requires it in stock, as the Janissary tool tip in the build menu says "requires 20 nitre

The tooltip clearly says it needs 20 niter. My best guess based on previous videos is that the resource is taken from the stockpile when the unit is queued. So they had 48, queued the janissary and dropped to 28 (which we didn't see) then hit next turn and got to 30.

 

[SmashPig5]

The tooltip clearly says it needs 20 niter. My best guess based on previous videos is that the resource is taken from the stockpile when the unit is queued. So they had 48, queued the janissary and dropped to 28 (which we didn't see) then hit next turn and got to 30.

That's actually a fair guess, it's quite likely too that it'd deduct the resources when queued to prevent any conflict in building multiple at a time when you only have enough for one, but we can perhaps see more detail in the next livestream to know for sure

 

[King Rad]

We will hopefully find out today; but I don't think he will be able to be established in enemy cities. He has one promotion giving +5 combat strength for units in his territory and one giving +10 for attacking defensible districts within 10 tiles of the city center. It sounds to me like this would be a situation where he has been established [after three turns] in a city you just conquered; making it easier to defend against enemy units still in that city's territory or coming in to try to retake the city and giving you a bonus for attacking other cities and districts in the region, of which there would generally be some within the 10-tile range.

 

[steveg700]

True
3 turns and he can establish himself in enemy cities apparently... so yeah, this does make them very strong... some competition for Magnus

LOL.

"Hello, enemy city citizens! I'm Ibrahim! Don't mind me, I'm just going to set up an office over here to facilitate your conquest. Now, I know you might be thinking about pulling a Leonidas on ol' Ibrahim and tossing me down a well to gather a bit of water and soil, but don't bother trying that because you simply can't. Too bad, so sad, but I assure you will all survive and be delighted to accept the Ottoman yoke. Say, anyone know which direction Mecca is?"

 

[steveg700]

EDIT: I've also come to the potential conclusion that building a unit that requires a resource does not actually use up the resource, but merely requires it in stock, as the Janissary tool tip in the build menu says "requires 20 nitre"

They probably want to avoid the word "consume" because I believe the resources actually aren't gone, just allocated. I thought I recalled them saying that if a swordsman unit is killed or disbanded, you'd get the iron it required back. Could be wrong.