[GS] The Ottomans Discussion Thread

[Karmah]

And oh look, Ibrahim's there, too.

omg you are so right ! (so is he )

 

[Sagax]

omg you are so right ! (so is he )

Honestly, without watching the drama, I have no idea which one of the three is actually Ibrahim. My first assumption was the guy to the left from the viewer perspective (the one with the girl).

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Honestly, without watching the drama, I have no idea which one of the three is actually Ibrahim. My first assumption was the guy to the left from the viewer perspective (the one with the girl).

I was thinking rightmost in the back row.

 

[UWHabs]

From watching the stream it seems like getting metal casting to upgrade your catapults to bombards is way more important than getting janissaries even tho janissaries are objectively great units. The catapults were a straight up liability. That is if you even bother to use the siege bonuses from the ottomans, I know a lot of the min-maxers probably won't because the battering ram is just too good. But even if you were to try to take advantage of the extra siege production/siege bonuses, the window between catapults and bombards is pretty awkward.

Jans were really good, but yeah, had Carl beelined for bombards right after that, it would have gone a lot smoother. His Catapults were doing some serious damage against the cities, I can't imagine how strong Bombards would have been.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

Agree with Leatha.

Its a cool civ, but let's not jump the gun about the OPness. They are late bloomers. That is a HUGE handicap.

The population thing doesn't bother too much. How many units are you going to need? And most of you are choppers, so you conquer a city, chop out a UA, conquer a city, chop out a UA. And so forth. Your core military industry shouldn't be bothered.

The big deflator, for me, are the late start, and the Bazaar. Well, I guess the bazaar isn't that bad, its just not that good. I bet quite a few people don't even build banks.

So I don't see them as a 'go for victory' OP civ. I see them more as a fun civ and a decent choice for the sandbox build-a-world crowd.

I don't see them as late bloomers per se. More like early competitive/advantaged (Ibrahim +5/+10 combat bonuses) becoming more pronounced into the mid and late game. I usually play on huge maps and above and almost always end up building banks in 65%+ of my cities. The bazaar will save me from building entertainment districts as well as keep the people happy or ecstatic (adding even more productivity) even during long wars.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I don't see them as late bloomers per se. More like early competitive/advantaged (Ibrahim +5/+10 combat bonuses) becoming more pronounced into the mid and late game. I usually play on huge maps and above and almost always end up building banks in 65%+ of my cities. The bazaar will save me from building entertainment districts as well as keep the people happy or ecstatic (adding even more productivity) even during long wars.

Yes. Ibrahim can be had as early as the late Ancient with his unit production boost, which is good for your first rush. You can pick up Catapults pretty quickly too.

The Ottomans may peak in the mid-game, but their bonuses are slowly ramping up before that.

 

[agonistes]

Yes. Ibrahim can be had as early as the late Ancient with his unit production boost, which is good for your first rush. You can pick up Catapults pretty quickly too.

The Ottomans may peak in the mid-game, but their bonuses are slowly ramping up before that.

The game is won early in the ancient age. The game isn't over, necessarily, but that is where it is won.

I'm not anti-Ottoman... I'm just suggesting they aren't a power civ.

 

[The googles do nothing]

Am I correct in that they way to use Ibrahim is placing him in an different civ which you then earn favor? Does placing him in a CS give a envoy? Even if it doesn't give and envoy the best use might be putting him in a CS until they have enough units to defend themselves.

Does his production bonus work on settlers? I wouldn't mind being his friend and getting 120% settler production plus chops on a Provision promoted Magus city.

 

[KayAU]

I think they are middle tier, perhaps upper middle at best. Their stuff is generally good and synergistic, but early advantage is king. While they have some things for the early game, there are others who can beat them quite easily.

As I said previously, the Janissary is pretty great for a mid game UU, but it won't do anything for you if you get killed by Nubian archers (or Sumerian donkeys) within the first couple of eras.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I think they are middle tier, perhaps upper middle at best. Their stuff is generally good and synergistic, but early advantage is king. While they have some things for the early game, there are others who can beat them quite easily.

As I said previously, the Janissary is pretty great for a mid game UU, but it won't do anything for you if you get killed by Nubian archers (or Sumerian donkeys) within the first couple of eras.

That's not a problem with the Ottomans--it's a problem with the Nubians.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Am I correct in that they way to use Ibrahim is placing him in an different civ which you then earn favor? Does placing him in a CS give a envoy? Even if it doesn't give and envoy the best use might be putting him in a CS until they have enough units to defend themselves.

Does his production bonus work on settlers? I wouldn't mind being his friend and getting 120% settler production plus chops on a Provision promoted Magus city.

The best way to use him seems to be to keep him in your core cities at first to build up your forces, then keep moving him with your front line for the combat bonuses. If you aren't attacking a neighbor, you may need to place him in a nearby city-state or innocent bystander city, but he can't go to an enemy city.

You can place him in an allied city to improve alliance level faster or you can place him in the city of someone who is angry at you to lower their grievances if you don't want to fight them.

It is unknown if his unit bonus works on settlers and builders, but I hope so.

 

[steveg700]

The best way to use him seems to be to keep him in your core cities at first to build up your forces, then keep moving him with your front line for the combat bonuses. If you aren't attacking a neighbor, you may need to place him in a nearby city-state or innocent bystander city, but he can't go to an enemy city.

You can place him in an allied city to improve alliance level faster or you can place him in the city of someone who is angry at you to lower their grievances if you don't want to fight them.

I think Ibby's probably better off in an ally's city unless you're in a building phase. I don't think someone needs to be angry with you to want to keep grievances managed. Extreme warmongering can anyone most civ's.

 

[steveg700]

The game is won early in the ancient age. The game isn't over, necessarily, but that is where it is won.

I'm not anti-Ottoman... I'm just suggesting they aren't a power civ.

If that's the case, and every game descends into an early-rush-fest, then so much of the game is rendered irrelevant that it begs the question of why someone would play it.

 

[Steamboat Willem]

I think they are middle tier, perhaps upper middle at best. Their stuff is generally good and synergistic, but early advantage is king. While they have some things for the early game, there are others who can beat them quite easily.

As I said previously, the Janissary is pretty great for a mid game UU, but it won't do anything for you if you get killed by Nubian archers (or Sumerian donkeys) within the first couple of eras.

GS has 43 civs, so in a standard 8 player game there's about a 1 in 6 chance that a specific Civ will be one of your opponents. And on top of that a 1/2 to 1/3 chance that they are close enough get to you.

 

[Sagax]

If that's the case, and every game descends into an early-rush-fest, then so much of the game is rendered irrelevant that it begs the question of why someone would play it.

Deity and Multiplayer in a nutshell.

 

[Victoria]

If that's the case, and every game descends into an early-rush-fest, then so much of the game is rendered irrelevant that it begs the question of why someone would play it.

The simple answer is they like the puzzle of being faster or efficient or ‘best’. There is nothing wrong with that play and they do come up with some great play ideas doing it. The issue with playing this way is most games are finished around T130-180 (amazing how many times they find a Relic in a goody hut)

 

[steveg700]

The simple answer is they like the puzzle of being faster or efficient or ‘best’. There is nothing wrong with that play and they do come up with some great play ideas doing it. The issue with playing this way is most games are finished around T130-180 (amazing how many times they find a Relic in a goody hut)

Well, they're one of the few things not pushing the doomsday clock closer to midnight, I'll concede you that. However, the proposition that early-game exploitation is the "correct" or "true" way to play the game puts relegates any discussion to a very narrow vector and, to my mind, calls into question why one bothers with such a facile puzzle.

Why try to become a grandmaster of checkers or Risk or Go Fish or Candyland? Move on to a more challenging game.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Risk actually involves a good deal of Diplomacy. There is a lot of strategy involved in it.

 

[Kibikus]

Deity and Multiplayer in a nutshell.

Most certainly not the only way to play deity (can't speak for multiplayer).

 

[Cerilis]

Risk actually involves a good deal of Diplomacy.

Not the way Shizune plays it! (Cookies for whoever gets the reference)