Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
If you like killing innocents because it makes it cheaper killing the guilty, then you would in fact be in support of a swift justice system.
The real story behind Columbine.
- Thread starter CivCube
- Start date
samildanach
Necrophile
There is an inconsistency in the logic of this article. Psychopaths lack empathy for their fellow human beings - O.K. so far. And I lack empathy for flying insects.
If I have a total disregard and lack of empathy for flying insects, would you expect me to care enough about them to go out of my way to squish them?
Equally why would a psychopath go out of his way to kill something that he has no empathy with and no bond of understanding.
IMO this person was a sociopath, he was an unusual sociopath in that he didn't lack physical courage. Most sociopaths being cowards use pawns to do their dirty work.
The tirades in the diary that the article makes reference to, are those of a sociopath psyching himself up. There is no need for a psychopath to write down or tell people why he is superior, to him it is a self evident truth. If it was the diary of psychopath - it would be written in a matter of fact style, such as I would write in my journal about having to deal with a wasp hive.
I think they reached this conclusion as much to reassure themselves as much as anything else, after all psychopaths make up only 2% of the population whereas 40 % show sociopathic tendencies.
If I have a total disregard and lack of empathy for flying insects, would you expect me to care enough about them to go out of my way to squish them?
Equally why would a psychopath go out of his way to kill something that he has no empathy with and no bond of understanding.
IMO this person was a sociopath, he was an unusual sociopath in that he didn't lack physical courage. Most sociopaths being cowards use pawns to do their dirty work.
The tirades in the diary that the article makes reference to, are those of a sociopath psyching himself up. There is no need for a psychopath to write down or tell people why he is superior, to him it is a self evident truth. If it was the diary of psychopath - it would be written in a matter of fact style, such as I would write in my journal about having to deal with a wasp hive.
I think they reached this conclusion as much to reassure themselves as much as anything else, after all psychopaths make up only 2% of the population whereas 40 % show sociopathic tendencies.
SuperBeaverInc.
Groucho
Good thing they sucked at wiring those bombs, or Colombine could have been even more horrific.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
Unlike psychotic individuals, psychopaths are rational and aware of what they are doing and why. Their behavior is the result of choice, freely exercised."
According to that definition, there are several psycopaths in the Bush Administration and in the Pentagon.
"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? Cuuuuuuuuhntryyyyyyyyyy music!!! . . .
"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? People who say that wrestling is real!! . . .
"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? People who use the same word over and over again! . . . Read a f**in book or two, increase your vo-cab-u-lary f***ing idiots."
"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? STUPID PEOPLE!!! Why must so many people be so stupid!!? . . . YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? When people mispronounce words! and they dont even know it to, like acrosT, or eXspreso, pacific (specific), or 2 pAck. learn to speak correctly you morons.
YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? STAR WARS FANS!!! GET A FaaaaaaRIGIN LIFE YOU BORING GEEEEEKS!
I fully agree with him
That guy wasn't that stupid after all. At least, he got the truth about people surrounding him.
According to that definition, there are several psycopaths in the Bush Administration and in the Pentagon.
"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? Cuuuuuuuuhntryyyyyyyyyy music!!! . . .
"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? People who say that wrestling is real!! . . .
"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? People who use the same word over and over again! . . . Read a f**in book or two, increase your vo-cab-u-lary f***ing idiots."
"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? STUPID PEOPLE!!! Why must so many people be so stupid!!? . . . YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? When people mispronounce words! and they dont even know it to, like acrosT, or eXspreso, pacific (specific), or 2 pAck. learn to speak correctly you morons.
YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? STAR WARS FANS!!! GET A FaaaaaaRIGIN LIFE YOU BORING GEEEEEKS!
I fully agree with him
That guy wasn't that stupid after all. At least, he got the truth about people surrounding him.
Mescalhead
Vincebus Eruptum
Good points. Makes more sense to me as well, but you would think that "professionals" would know more than us. Perhaps it is more complex than what was written.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 29,453
It was far easier to blame the rock music, image or movie culture -
Just don't blame the failure parents and upbringing!
Yes, and guns are not a problem in the USA either -
Just don't blame the easy access to guns!
Just don't blame the failure parents and upbringing!
Yes, and guns are not a problem in the USA either -
Just don't blame the easy access to guns!
LesCanadiens
Deity
As the initial shock waves from the massacre rippled through the community, citizens were drawn together in their grief. Thousands attended memorial services for the slain, offering and receiving comfort as mourners attempted to come to terms with the tragedy that had befallen them. A spirit of forgiveness was even displayed toward the two teenage perpetrators in the form of two crosses placed alongside those of their 13 victims. Within days however, the mood began to change as grief turned to anger and all that were touched by the tragedy looked desperately for someone or something to blame. Before six months had passed, the need to hold someone accountable had turned the small community upon itself.
William "Dave" Sanders (AP)
Blame was first pointed at the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. Many believed that it had taken police too long to secure the building, leading to many unnecessary deaths. Teacher and coach Dave Sanders was wounded minutes after the shooting began but died just moments after paramedics reached him four and a half hours later. Police officials quickly defended their actions, explaining that due to the number of undetonated bombs in the building, it had been necessary to go through each room, 250 in total, one by one. Even if they had been told that Sanders was injured somewhere, they would not have been able to get to him any sooner. When asked why police didn't storm the building and confront the shooters, a commander of one of the SWAT teams, Denver police Lieutenant Frank Vessa answered "We're not the military. We can't have collateral damage. Our job was to save the lives of as many innocent as we could."
With the investigation in full swing, the blame began to shift in a new direction. When it was reported that bombs, a shotgun barrel, a journal and several hand written notes had been found in clear view in Eric Harris's bedroom, the parents of the two teenage shooters took the brunt of the community's anger. The Harrises and Klebolds were accused of being negligent parents who had ignored their sons' violent tendencies. The anger of some was so great that the Klebolds began to receive death threats. This was in stark contrast to the placard, conveying the love and support of friends and neighbors, left on their front lawn immediately after the massacre.
Friends and neighbors of the two families quickly jumped to their defense, claiming that they were good parents who had been completely unaware of their sons' disturbing behavior. A fellow student who had known Harris well believes that Harris had always hidden his anti-social behavior from his parents, the only reason he would have left things in the open that day was because he knew he wasn't coming back. According to close friends, the parents were as distressed and mystified by the boys' actions as everyone else in the community was. At no time had the school informed them of the dark poetry, anti-social behavior or the video they had made. Nor were they informed of several complaints about Harris, which were made to police by parents of another Columbine student.
In response to police criticisms of the Harrises and Klebolds, Randy and Judy Brown reported to a local paper and News4 that police had done nothing when the Browns had complained to police about Eric Harris the year before. The Browns told reporters that they had had many run-ins with Harris over the past two years. In March 1998, they turned to the police when Harris threatened their son's life. Then they went to the sheriff's office with copies of 15 pages they had downloaded from Harris's Internet site. The writings included plans to shoot up the school, details of experiments with pipe bombs and, more specifically, a threat to kill the Browns' 17-year-old son, Brook. When the Browns had not heard anything from police, they called the sheriff's office. They were told that there was no record of such a complaint ever being made.
Having had no success with the police, the Browns went to see Harris's parents themselves. Judy Brown felt that both Wayne and Kathy Harris had reacted as strongly as any normal parent would and they did talk to their son, but Judy believes that Harris had succeeded in deceiving his parents about the seriousness of the situation. This belief was soon confirmed when they received an email, written by Harris, which described how he had fooled his father.
As they still hadn't received any word from police, and the email repeated Harris's threats against their son, Judy and Randy decided to make a second visit to the sheriff's office. They met with a detective who said that the Internet postings they showed him were some of the worst he had seen. When he looked up police records, he found that Harris had been arrested recently for a car break-in. Despite this, no further action was taken and officials handling Harris and Klebold's break-in charges were not informed of the Browns' report.
A police report regarding the Browns' complaints was forwarded to Neil Gardner, the sheriff's deputy stationed at Columbine High School, but no further action was taken. According to Jefferson County Schools' spokesman, Rick Kaufmann, the report was not forwarded to the school's district office but he did not know if anyone in the school received the report.
Sheriff John Stone (AP)
The district attorney's office says that it never received a copy of the report. Sheriff John Stone explained that his office received many complaints, known as "suspicious incidents," in any given period. They are usually given very low priority, although he did concede that the information regarding Harris's and Klebold's pipe bomb experiments should have been followed up more thoroughly.
According to Denver lawyer Scott Robinson, who reviewed Harris's web pages, the reports of building and detonating pipe bombs could have been used as probable cause to persuade a judge to issue a search warrant for Harris's house.
The need to find someone responsible for the horrific events at Columbine has resulted in the filing of at least 18 lawsuits before the October cut-off was reached. Anyone who may have any degree of culpability in the massacre -- gun makers, Harris's and Klebold's parents, the school district and the sheriff's department will all be required to defend their position, if and when these cases come to court. With several lawsuits being filed against them, the Klebolds have filed their own suit against the sheriff's department in an attempt to cover the possible costs incurred if the cases against them are successful. Harriet Hall, the mental health worker responsible for providing counseling to the Columbine victims, was not surprised at the dissension that occurred in the community since the massacre. "I'd be worried if there weren't disagreements This is a natural response to what the community has been through," she said.
Read more @ http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/littleton/index_1.html?sect=3
William "Dave" Sanders (AP)
Blame was first pointed at the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. Many believed that it had taken police too long to secure the building, leading to many unnecessary deaths. Teacher and coach Dave Sanders was wounded minutes after the shooting began but died just moments after paramedics reached him four and a half hours later. Police officials quickly defended their actions, explaining that due to the number of undetonated bombs in the building, it had been necessary to go through each room, 250 in total, one by one. Even if they had been told that Sanders was injured somewhere, they would not have been able to get to him any sooner. When asked why police didn't storm the building and confront the shooters, a commander of one of the SWAT teams, Denver police Lieutenant Frank Vessa answered "We're not the military. We can't have collateral damage. Our job was to save the lives of as many innocent as we could."
With the investigation in full swing, the blame began to shift in a new direction. When it was reported that bombs, a shotgun barrel, a journal and several hand written notes had been found in clear view in Eric Harris's bedroom, the parents of the two teenage shooters took the brunt of the community's anger. The Harrises and Klebolds were accused of being negligent parents who had ignored their sons' violent tendencies. The anger of some was so great that the Klebolds began to receive death threats. This was in stark contrast to the placard, conveying the love and support of friends and neighbors, left on their front lawn immediately after the massacre.
Friends and neighbors of the two families quickly jumped to their defense, claiming that they were good parents who had been completely unaware of their sons' disturbing behavior. A fellow student who had known Harris well believes that Harris had always hidden his anti-social behavior from his parents, the only reason he would have left things in the open that day was because he knew he wasn't coming back. According to close friends, the parents were as distressed and mystified by the boys' actions as everyone else in the community was. At no time had the school informed them of the dark poetry, anti-social behavior or the video they had made. Nor were they informed of several complaints about Harris, which were made to police by parents of another Columbine student.
In response to police criticisms of the Harrises and Klebolds, Randy and Judy Brown reported to a local paper and News4 that police had done nothing when the Browns had complained to police about Eric Harris the year before. The Browns told reporters that they had had many run-ins with Harris over the past two years. In March 1998, they turned to the police when Harris threatened their son's life. Then they went to the sheriff's office with copies of 15 pages they had downloaded from Harris's Internet site. The writings included plans to shoot up the school, details of experiments with pipe bombs and, more specifically, a threat to kill the Browns' 17-year-old son, Brook. When the Browns had not heard anything from police, they called the sheriff's office. They were told that there was no record of such a complaint ever being made.
Having had no success with the police, the Browns went to see Harris's parents themselves. Judy Brown felt that both Wayne and Kathy Harris had reacted as strongly as any normal parent would and they did talk to their son, but Judy believes that Harris had succeeded in deceiving his parents about the seriousness of the situation. This belief was soon confirmed when they received an email, written by Harris, which described how he had fooled his father.
As they still hadn't received any word from police, and the email repeated Harris's threats against their son, Judy and Randy decided to make a second visit to the sheriff's office. They met with a detective who said that the Internet postings they showed him were some of the worst he had seen. When he looked up police records, he found that Harris had been arrested recently for a car break-in. Despite this, no further action was taken and officials handling Harris and Klebold's break-in charges were not informed of the Browns' report.
A police report regarding the Browns' complaints was forwarded to Neil Gardner, the sheriff's deputy stationed at Columbine High School, but no further action was taken. According to Jefferson County Schools' spokesman, Rick Kaufmann, the report was not forwarded to the school's district office but he did not know if anyone in the school received the report.
Sheriff John Stone (AP)
The district attorney's office says that it never received a copy of the report. Sheriff John Stone explained that his office received many complaints, known as "suspicious incidents," in any given period. They are usually given very low priority, although he did concede that the information regarding Harris's and Klebold's pipe bomb experiments should have been followed up more thoroughly.
According to Denver lawyer Scott Robinson, who reviewed Harris's web pages, the reports of building and detonating pipe bombs could have been used as probable cause to persuade a judge to issue a search warrant for Harris's house.
The need to find someone responsible for the horrific events at Columbine has resulted in the filing of at least 18 lawsuits before the October cut-off was reached. Anyone who may have any degree of culpability in the massacre -- gun makers, Harris's and Klebold's parents, the school district and the sheriff's department will all be required to defend their position, if and when these cases come to court. With several lawsuits being filed against them, the Klebolds have filed their own suit against the sheriff's department in an attempt to cover the possible costs incurred if the cases against them are successful. Harriet Hall, the mental health worker responsible for providing counseling to the Columbine victims, was not surprised at the dissension that occurred in the community since the massacre. "I'd be worried if there weren't disagreements This is a natural response to what the community has been through," she said.
Read more @ http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/littleton/index_1.html?sect=3
Sadly it is very unlikely anything CAN be done to prevent this type of tragedy in the future - psychopaths are very rare, but they are very hard to identify or deal with prior to their first overtly psychopathic act.
It's reassuring for us to pretend that something can be done, or that such people can be helped, but the reality appears to be that the best you can do is pick them up before they cause too much damage and then throw away the key.
Sad, very sad....
Dann
Green bug
Interesting. So it was the other way around all this time.
Analyzing my own high school days I think Harris' feelings would actually be not so rare after all. Imagine this: a "thinker" type with an insane superiority complex who's despised by the rest of the "cooler" kids. Add in easy access to guns and explosives and you really have a recipe for disaster.
Analyzing my own high school days I think Harris' feelings would actually be not so rare after all. Imagine this: a "thinker" type with an insane superiority complex who's despised by the rest of the "cooler" kids. Add in easy access to guns and explosives and you really have a recipe for disaster.
Pointlessness
Prince
Originally posted by Marla_Singer
"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? Cuuuuuuuuhntryyyyyyyyyy music!!! . . .
"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? People who say that wrestling is real!! . . .
"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? People who use the same word over and over again! . . . Read a f**in book or two, increase your vo-cab-u-lary f***ing idiots."
"YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? STUPID PEOPLE!!! Why must so many people be so stupid!!? . . . YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? When people mispronounce words! and they dont even know it to, like acrosT, or eXspreso, pacific (specific), or 2 pAck. learn to speak correctly you morons.
YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? STAR WARS FANS!!! GET A FaaaaaaRIGIN LIFE YOU BORING GEEEEEKS!
I fully agree with him
That guy wasn't that stupid after all. At least, he got the truth about people surrounding him.
Interestingly enough, I agree with him too. I wonder if I am a psychopath...
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
I was watching a show about this the other day. The reaction of the police was really pathetic. They could have EASILY stopped them before they went into the library and killed those 10 people.
I'm sure they had to sort out who would get blamed for what before they went in, though.
I'm sure they had to sort out who would get blamed for what before they went in, though.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
I've never got the impression that people who go out of their way to kill flies have more empathy for them than other people. Rather the opposite - the kind of people who tend to anthropomorphize even lower animals tend not to kill flies randomly.
According to the articles interpretation, to Harris the people he killed were merely stepping stones to his greater goal. He didn't need empathizing with them any more than a ruler commissioning a statue in his own honour need empathize with the materials used to fashion it.
Edit: To take another example involving insects, as a kid I liked to take ants from one anthill and drop them on another, to see them getting killed by the 2nd anthill's soldier ants. This didn't involve any noticeable empathizing with the ants, or even any desire to hurt individual ants; I simply saw them as toys.
These days, I only kill insects if they're actively annoying me, or if I'd have to go out of my way not to kill them.
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
It is ridiculus to try and blame music and computer games. Of everybody who listed to them did it there would be massacares evrey 1.4 seconds (or thereabouts). These 2 things were just targeted by the christian right who eargerly leaped upon the oppurtunity to pin the blame on stuff they don't like.
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