2024 US Presidential Election Watch Party

[Estebonrober]

So this is what is meant by capitalism. Equities & IP (non physical capital) and a system based entirely around increasing their value.

yea, pretty much and with a highly regulated form of capitalism maybe you can incentivize good behavior and make it reasonably moral... that is not what we have done... my tax dollars are currently going to murder people in at least 13 different countries atm... none of which will help me at all, forget any of it being in the defense of America. I have come to the conclusion that this economic system itself is the corruption there is no way to wrangle it because it necessarily and most powerfully incentivizes bad behavior.

fwiw I've come to the sad conclusion old Gene Roddenberry was right and it will take WWIII for us to fix it. Obviously the first two wars resulted in the wrong conclusion...

 

[Joij21]

Why are you getting mad at the person wanting their gender-affirming surgeries to be covered by insurance instead of getting mad at the government for not covering your dental health?

You're right, you should stop paying taxes. Best of luck buddy.

Because then we're just giving specific groups special rights while denying it to everyone else. It's pointless to start giving them socialized sex changes until first universal healthcare exists for everyone else. Otherwise it's rather unfair.

yea, pretty much and with a highly regulated form of capitalism maybe you can incentivize good behavior and make it reasonably moral... that is not what we have done... my tax dollars are currently going to murder people in at least 13 different countries atm... none of which will help me at all, forget any of it being in the defense of America. I have come to the conclusion that this economic system itself is the corruption there is no way to wrangle it because it necessarily and most powerfully incentivizes bad behavior.

fwiw I've come to the sad conclusion old Gene Roddenberry was right and it will take WWIII for us to fix it. Obviously the first two wars resulted in the wrong conclusion...

Empire and imperialism has existed before capitalism. The economic system has less to do with influencing this behavior, rather the cravings of power inherent to all humans drives war and imperialism.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Imagine being so detached from reality that you think trans people have special rights in America when they're actively having the ability/right to be openly trans and not have housing, jobs, basic benefits, healthcare actively stripped away.

Straight up transphobia, that is curiously allowed to thrive on this forum

 

[Gorbles]

Because then we're just giving specific groups special rights while denying it to everyone else. It's pointless to start giving them socialized sex changes until first universal healthcare exists for everyone else. Otherwise it's rather unfair.

Yes, everybody should get a wheelchair, otherwise it's unfair.

I don't think you have a good grasp on "unfair".

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Punishing trans people won't make your life any better @Joij21

 

[Zardnaar]

Imagine being so detached from reality that you think trans people have special rights in America when they're actively having the ability/right to be openly trans and not have housing, jobs, basic benefits, healthcare actively stripped away.

Straight up transphobia, that is curiously allowed to thrive on this forum

More like there's limits on what the electorate is willing to go with at this point in time.

You thought attacking was a good idea reality was you're charging up hill through barbed wire into an entrenched position.

Some of the online left stuff won't fly here. And we're vastly ahead of USA.

Progressive left is maybe 10-15% of the population. So basically preaching to the converted its everyone else you have to appeal to.

Social issues suck up a huge amount of the oxygen. And it was economical issues people cared about.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

More like there's limits on what the electorate is willing to go with at this point in time.

You thought attacking was a good idea reality was you're charging up hill through barbed wire into an entrenched position.

Some of the online left stuff won't fly here. And we're vastly ahead of USA.

Progressive left is maybe 10-15% of the population. So basically preaching to the converted its everyone else you have to appeal to.

Social issues suck up a huge amount of the oxygen. And it was economical issues people cared about.

More like you shouldn't talk about things you clearly don't know or understand, maybe stick to being annoyed at house prices or the indigenous people of your country, that seems more like your thing rather than endlessly weighing in on my community and how you'd specifically love to further abandon them

 

[Zardnaar]

More like you shouldn't talk about things you clearly don't know or understand, maybe stick to being annoyed at house prices or the indigenous people of your country, that seems more like your thing rather than endlessly weighing in on my community and how you'd specifically love to further abandon them

Didn't sat abandon but there's 0 votes in it and may actually repel needed potential allies.

Put it this way time machine back to 2016. You have the power for Hilary to win the election. She wins again 2020.

The price. 0 social progress next 20 years (until 2036) Would you take that deal?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I'm not interested in your inane question, I'm interested in the fact that you think you aren't abandoning trans people even as you actively seek to jettison them and their needs because you consider it politically expedient and I'm interested how you think you're any different from the countless other bad-faith individuals out there arguing that trans people should wait another generation for priviledges and basic rights that cis people are afforded automatically and without thought

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm not interested in your inane question, I'm interested in the fact that you think you aren't abandoning trans people even as you actively seek to jettison them and their needs because you consider it politically expedient and I'm interested how you think you're any different from the countless other bad-faith individuals out there arguing that trans people should wait another generation for priviledges and basic rights that cis people are afforded automatically and without thought

That's the reality you're facing but worse. Trump won. There's a reason he won.

I wouldn't abandon it just not campaign on it. Bury on page 13 some obscure online thing and campaign on soneting else. Tacr the rich 5% economic populist and probably restrict immigration as you're taking a hiding there as well.

There's not enough transport voters to matter, they shouldbe voting the correct way anyway. LGBTQ total are usually 4-5% of the population and tend to overwhelmingly vote left anyway.

It's basic math. They didn't even get 4% in polling on issues that was foreign affairs.

Democrats built their platform around upper middle class or higher urban liberals. Not enough of them.

 

[Gorbles]

That's the reality you're facing but worse. Trump won. There's a reason he won.

I wouldn't abandon it just not campaign on it. Bury on page 13 some obscure online thing and campaign on soneting else. Tacr the rich 5% economic populist and probably restrict immigration as you're taking a hiding there as well.

There's not enough transport voters to matter, they shouldbe voting the correct way anyway. LGBTQ total are usually 4-5% of the population and tend to overwhelmingly vote left anyway.

It's basic math. They didn't even get 4% in polling on issues that was foreign affairs.

Democrats built their platform around upper middle class or higher urban liberals. Not enough of them.

The Democrats built their campaign around an aging Joe Biden, refused to switch him out until the last possible minute, had Kamala start with a strong campaign, and then shoot itself in the foot repeatedly by abandoning early campaign anti big-business rhetoric in favour of mollifying their business donors (like Harris' brother-in-law, apparently).

Nothing about their platform was overtly pro-LGBTQ (beyond the basic fact of maybe saying "they should deserve to live"), nor did they shout about it constantly.

Data consistently shows that the economy drove votes far more than any LGBTQ positions.

Evidence your claims, kiddo. Otherwise folks are just going to laugh at you for being as out of touch as you think lefties are.

 

[Zardnaar]

The Democrats built their campaign around an aging Joe Biden, refused to switch him out until the last possible minute, had Kamala start with a strong campaign, and then shoot itself in the foot repeatedly by abandoning early campaign anti big-business rhetoric in favour of mollifying their business donors (like Harris' brother-in-law, apparently).

Nothing about their platform was overtly pro-LGBTQ (beyond the basic fact of maybe saying "they should deserve to live"), nor did they shout about it constantly.

Data consistently shows that the economy drove votes far more than any LGBTQ positions.

Evidence your claims, kiddo. Otherwise folks are just going to laugh at you for being as out of touch as you think lefties are.

I was posting % from cautious sources last week on issues Americans cared about.

Also the demographics of the voters. Democrats have a gender and race issue. Gen Z went for Trump heavily.

 

[EvaDK]

As I said/quoted some days ago 'it's the economy, stupid'. The Democrats mis-read what the voters perceived as the top issue. Then again, I don't think Trump can deliver on this issue either. The global economy will be affected by Chinas economic deroute (which will last years, if not decades) and there's not much an American President can do about that. Certainly not someone who harbors an intense dislike for China and wants to see it burn.

 

[Zardnaar]

As I said/quoted some days ago 'it's the economy, stupid'. The Democrats mis-read what the voters perceived as the top issue. Then again, I don't think Trump can deliver on this issue either. The global economy will be affected by Chinas economic deroute (which will last years, if not decades) and there's not much an American President can do about that. Certainly not someone who harbors an intense dislike for China and wants to see it burn.

Everything China dies can be replicated elsewhere. They're the new Japan.

 

[EvaDK]

Everything China dies can be replicated elsewhere. They're the new Japan.

If Chinese imports of Western goods drop significantly in the coming years, I assure you there will be an impact on our economies. No other nation can swiftly soak up that loss of trade, because everyone will be affected. The consequence of less global trade, is less productivity and more local trade, which will increase costs most places. Europe has mostly replaced Russian natural gas imports with imports from the US, Norway and the Middle East/Africa. We just pay a bit more for the same volumes.

 

[choxorn]

Because then we're just giving specific groups special rights while denying it to everyone else. It's pointless to start giving them socialized sex changes until first universal healthcare exists for everyone else. Otherwise it's rather unfair.

Once again, why are you mad at them for trying to get something they need instead of getting mad at the government for not giving you the universal health care you need?

 

[Joij21]

Imagine being so detached from reality that you think trans people have special rights in America when they're actively having the ability/right to be openly trans and not have housing, jobs, basic benefits, healthcare actively stripped away.

Straight up transphobia, that is curiously allowed to thrive on this forum

Punishing trans people won't make your life any better @Joij21

Sex changes have always been considered "cosmetic" surgeries not life saving. It's absurd that such expensive procedures now have to be socialized because certain individuals don't go to therapy or use less expensive methods.

And I can see how this will be pushed in a similar way to black reparations, hand out a bunch of people millions of dollars for something that happened generations ago while for doing essentially nothing. Equity sucks, it isn't true equality.

Yes, everybody should get a wheelchair, otherwise it's unfair.

I don't think you have a good grasp on "unfair".

So a sex change surgery is the equivalent of a wheelchair now? We're now going to divert millions, possibly billions of dollars to a bunch of Hollywood plastic surgeons just to protect a certain minority who's mental state in in such shambles that they literally need one of the most expensive purely cosmetic surgeries to be done on themselves to not off themselves, meanwhile the woke state will then just deny money going to all the people, including children, who died from not being able to afford cancer treatment because the government believes the Hollywood plastic surgery is more important to protect a certain "threatened" group all in the name of equity.

 

[Bamspeedy]

That's the reality you're facing but worse. Trump won. There's a reason he won.

I wouldn't abandon it just not campaign on it. Bury on page 13 some obscure online thing and campaign on soneting else. Tacr the rich 5% economic populist and probably restrict immigration as you're taking a hiding there as well.

There's not enough transport voters to matter, they shouldbe voting the correct way anyway. LGBTQ total are usually 4-5% of the population and tend to overwhelmingly vote left anyway.

It's basic math. They didn't even get 4% in polling on issues that was foreign affairs.

Democrats built their platform around upper middle class or higher urban liberals. Not enough of them.

As someone from a swing state who got a TON of junk mail this election trying to sway my vote....i wished i saved them all. Republican mailings outnumbered democrat ones im guessing 4 to 1.

The democrat candidate mailings i dont recall listed anything about trans issues.

The republican candidate mailings certainly did.
"Dangerous liberal candidate X voted for biological males to compete in women's sports"

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Sex changes have always been considered "cosmetic" surgeries not life saving. It's absurd that such expensive procedures now have to be socialized because certain individuals don't go to therapy or use less expensive methods.

And I can see how this will be pushed in a similar way to black reparations, hand out a bunch of people millions of dollars for something that happened generations ago while for doing essentially nothing. Equity sucks, it isn't true equality.

Your personal ignorance of what gender dysphoria is like, all that it entails and the suicidality it causes is a you issue that you could easily rectify by reading up accounts that trans people, better and more diplomatic ones than I, could post and don't ever think you can talk about trans people without one of us on here throwing your willful and deliberate lack of knowledge back at you. Keep my community out of your mouth if you can't even grasp the basics.

 

[Gorbles]

I was posting % from cautious sources last week on issues Americans cared about.

I'm not asking for sources on what issues Americans care about. Leftists have been yelling about the economy for some time.

So a sex change surgery is the equivalent of a wheelchair now? We're now going to divert millions, possibly billions of dollars to a bunch of Hollywood plastic surgeons just to protect a certain minority who's mental state in in such shambles that they literally need one of the most expensive purely cosmetic surgeries to be done on themselves to not off themselves, meanwhile the woke state will then just deny money going to all the people, including children, who died from not being able to afford cancer treatment because the government believes the Hollywood plastic surgery is more important to protect a certain "threatened" group all in the name of equity.

Well, I think we've got to the real reason you're objecting to medical care for trans folk. I don't want to waste anymore time on this tangent.