The Saga of Leif Ericson (of how to colonize the new world by 1000 AD)

[Rod]

I disagree. Cheating means to use illegal methods or bugs in order to achieve an easy gain. The procedure as described is neither a bug, nor illegal, nor an easy gain. Just the opposite, a lots of efforts were invested in order to get a very creative and innovative solution.

That is thinking, not cheating. If you think that this is cheating then Leonardo da Vinci or Albert Einstein were cheaters as well ...

 

[Úmarth]

Exploiting, I believe, would be the proper term; using a design feature in a way that it was not intended to achieve something that you're not supposed to do. But hey, in a single-player game it's all a matter of personal playing preference.

 

[onedreamer]

Dear Rod, I didn't define the described actions as cheating but as "not fair game". The reason is simple: he purpousely exploited AI weaknesses in order to achieve a goal and made a huge use of metagaming in doing so. While this certainly is not cheating, it certainly is not fair game, and as such I would really feel no sense of accomplishment at all. Like Umarth said, this is a matter of personal preference in play style.

 

[Rod]

I understand your point of view to some degree, but I must still disagree.

As per your understanding of 'not fair game' also the human experience that comes with playing the same civ several times and therefore getting an awareness of which bad events and which good events are happening in or adjacent to the core territory of this civ are cheating.

1.Example: Founding a City with Egypt that will reach the Copper or the Horse before Copper Work and Animal Husbandry are researched

2.Example: Not founding any city on the Krim or in Moldavia as Russia before Turkey spawns, because of the knowlegde that these areas are part of the Turkish Core Territory.

We might even assume that as per your (imho slightly too narrow) definition of fairplay any civ game of human against machine would be unfair.
The machine is pretty dump, therefore beating the machine is like beating a mentally retarted human.

 

[sedna17]

Clearly it is using (exploiting) a game mechanic for something other than its intended purpose. I viewed it more as an intellectual challenge than anything else, and once I realized there was a (very hard) way to accomplish it, I wanted to share.

RFC is fun precisely because it imposes stricter limits on what you can do, and this inspires many people to see what they can do by stretching the rules to the limit (c.f. squatting).

There are many other little things you can do:

In RFC, for instance, you can gain a very experienced early unit by carefully using your first "free" wins against barbs in situations where you have a very low chance of winning.

The GOTM crowd lists a few more things here.

Personally, I like AlanH's definition of an exploit:

For the purposes of the Game of the Month exploits are opportunities created by programming errors or accidents of sequencing or other subtleties of the software that permit a player to gain a benefit substantially disproportionate to cost.

Under this definition, this galley is not an exploit. In fact, wasting your first two great people on artists, gifting away a nice city in Iceland, and establishing a completely-isolated foreign colony which you cannot trade with or reach with re-inforcements is a terrible way to reach the UHV and incurs a cost disproportionate to its benefit. I continued playing this game for a little while. I was unstable, Vinland broke free, and I would probably have completely collapsed but I gave up.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Exactly my point sedna regarding the cost (stability, resources, etc) of getting to America. Your "exploit" is a heroic feat doomed to failure, but it's heroic nonetheless. (Didn't all of the American/Greenland Vikings eventually die out due to the mini-Ice Age?)

 

[Metal Alloy Man]

(Didn't all of the American/Greenland Vikings eventually die out due to the mini-Ice Age?)

Yes, I watched a cool documentary in Imax about this once.

 

[JujuLautre]

Considering all the things you have to do to achieve that, and the presence of a great artist (giving a real taste of saga), even if some people call that cheating I really like it

Great job Sedna

 

[Dimitri12345]

Considering all the things you have to do to achieve that, and the presence of a great artist (giving a real taste of saga), even if some people call that cheating I really like it

Great job Sedna

my thoughts exactly, its almost as if the mod was destined to use great artists for "sagas" like this one.

 

[Jet]

This strategy is officially metal as... well, let's just say metal as this.

and that's metal.

 

[Aeon221]

This strategy is officially metal as... well, let's just say metal as this.

and that's metal.

I approve of you and your style.

 

[onedreamer]

As per your understanding of 'not fair game' also the human experience that comes with playing the same civ several times and therefore getting an awareness of which bad events and which good events are happening in or adjacent to the core territory of this civ are cheating.

A part from the fact that I do build Kherson and it never flips, I do conquer Jerusalem and Sur even if I know they will flip to the Arabs. This is part of the game, and using tricks to make RFC events not happen isn't fair game. And the game you play is always vs yourself, since the AI is not a living being. So as far as you feel that sense of accomplishment, then that's fine. Different peolpe have different play styles so I don't understand how can you disagree that for me signing an OB deal only to cut it in order to speed the colonization of america is not fair game. It is certainly a well thought exploit, I'd be happy to have found it and I would archive it in the records but not use it to win the UHV.

 

[jessiecat]

Whatever definition of cheat you want to use some things are just cheating.
Exploiting the mechanics of the game to gain unfair advantage is one of them.
Like this one I just tried again for fun. I started as Spain, built Seville, Valencia and Valladolid.
Built as many buildings as I could but no troops. The move before Portugal spawned, I retreated
all the workers to cities and killed off all the troops. The next move when Portugal spawned
I switched then used my troops to walk in. Voila! Iberia is mine. with 4 good developed cities.
Not unheard of I'm sure. And definitely not illegal. But it is an exploit, I think, and it is sure as
hell is cheating as well as totally against the spirit of the game IMO.

 

[Rhye]

I've added this "saga" to the wiki

http://rhye.civfanatics.net/wiki/in...f_how_to_colonize_the_new_world_by_1000_AD.29

 

[Tigranes]

Many thanks to the author of this thread for the wonderful inspiration! ​

"The first permanent settler in Iceland is usually considered to have been a Norwegian chieftain named Ingólfur Arnarson. According to the story, he threw two carved pillars overboard as he neared land, vowing to settle wherever they landed. He then sailed along the coast until the pillars were found in the southwestern peninsula, now known as Reykjanesskagi. Archaeological findings in Reykjavik are consistent with the date given there: there was a settlement in Reykjavik around 870. "


For Vikings on Monarch at 600 AD start it is possible to found a city in America as early as 900s even without Great Artists and still stay stable:

Spoiler :

Step by step guid:

Spoiler :

1. Settle in Norway, switch to Castes/Vassalege, 1 turn anarchy
2. Save the third settler, chop two more settlers by the turn 20 (800 AD)
3. Take Inverness on Turn 3, use working boat for the fish, start cranking culture 100+ by all means before the English flip date ( Turn 24, 840 AD).
4. Get to Iceland with 3 Settlers and a longbow, settle at Husavik and Reykjavik as shown in the spoiler below.
5. Agree on Inverness flip, very importantly your 100+ culture stays there as English culture. Do not open borders.
6. Starve Husavik to pop 1, "liberate" to Lissy. The reason for this -- as Sedna17 has mantioned England run Castes but will never run an Artist on the expense of starvation. With pop 1 they stay stagnant and run Artist right away.
7. Next turn place a Settler on the Deer, keep galleys in neutral waters, starve Reykjavik to pop 1 and liberate the capital of Iceland to the Virgin Queen.
8. Setler finds himself in Greenland. Walk on ice to see the southern coast.
9. Now open borders, place galleys with a Longbow on the closest tile to Reykjavik as shown. Do not place one tile South (spent entire day to figure that out ). Do not pop the hut in Ireland and generaly stay away from Ireland as far as possible. Most importantly, the coast tile NW from the Irish ship must be dark.

Spoiler :

10. Declare warand sail towards Vinland.

Spoiler :

I guess I arrived to America too early -- no angry natives, only Caribous

Spoiler :

 

[sedna17]

Very nice, Tigranes. You obviously have more patience than I for figuring out exactly how the "magic tele-porting" of open borders/war works in this area.

 

[Tigranes]

I just really love the fact that Longboats reached America before Carracks, and your discovery was amazing. I can see that Rhye does not count it as an exploit, but sometimes, while figuring out many UHVs I feel like Rhye knows all the hidden possibilities of RFC and his map, but won't tell it to us

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Yeah, Tigranes, I think Rhye had anticipated a lot of our techniques and "exploits," namely:
1. Squatting (preloaded settlers for Vikings, Carthage and Greece)
2. Blizzrd technique to conquer (like Alexander the Great)
3. Use of castes for Egypt and Mali (not the most obvious solutions)
4. Directing the Incans and Aztecs for quick Feudalism to counter the dog soldiers by purposefully leaving out iron and horses
5. Just the right amount of soldiers for the French and Germans to declare early war just like Charlemagne
6. The infamous Suez Canal
7. Founding Jayakarta on Java rather than Padang on Sumatra.

 

[ZachScape]

Can you shed some light on #s 3 and 7?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Egypt: Stonehenge for castes, and unlimited artists for aesthetics, literature and your great artist.
Mali: instead of whipping a market, just switch to castes and get 2 great merchants out to Spain before 1300.

None of these are my ideas--it may have occurred to me but didn't seem feasible at the time for long term success.

As for Jayakarta over Padang (we're talking about Khmer of course) the latter is just useless (lack land, only 1 fish, fewer plantations), and you need lots of population for running artist specialists.