The self-defeating nature of using "Privilege (Theory)" (in societal discourse)

[Timsup2nothin]

Simply put, Asians are more privileged than Eastern Europeans (who are usually considered white) are more privileged than Africans. By this logic, either light skinned Asians have white privilege or Slavic peoples do not.

Since the place that outright discriminatory practices show up the most is law enforcement and law enforcement tends to be populated with a large proportion of recent military veterans of the ground pounder rates, which group gets discriminated against most heavily does shift over time as wars come and go. In the 1970s law enforcement was far more harsh on east Asians than it is now, and the current crop is far more oppressive to middle eastern and eastern European people. Of course African Americans are always getting the shortest shrift no matter how other things change, and the current "you're brown, so you must have committed a misdemeanor entry and graduated immediately to rape and murder" policy from the white house is tipping the balances as well.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I have no idea what this even means. I was born in this country, I have ancestors who have been here since the 1600s, it is very likely to be more "mine" than "yours" by your (probably pretty racist) standards.

My ancestors only came here in the late 1800s. I acknowledge that this pile of feces is more your country than mine and will be happy to vacate as soon as I can finish the arrangements. You and the Trumpists can dispute over my share; I want nothing to do with them.

 

[Lexicus]

My ancestors only came here in the late 1800s. I acknowledge that this pile of feces is more your country than mine and will be happy to vacate as soon as I can finish the arrangements. You and the Trumpists can dispute over my share; I want nothing to do with them.

Well it belongs to all of us as want a share, as far as I'm concerned. JMA's the one who tried to say it's not muh country because I'm an immigant or whatever.

 

[sophie]

Well it belongs to all of us as want a share, as far as I'm concerned. JMA's the one who tried to say it's not muh country because I'm an immigant or whatever.

I read it as it's "not your country" as you're one o' dem Ivory Tower SJW intellectual types. As in: politics are a zero-sum game, and since you lost the election it is to be taken as proof-positive that you also have vacated any claim to the political, cultural, or social zeitgeist. Because, y'know, that's totally how democracy works.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I feel like you have to be intentionally daft not to understand that racial epithets which have been used to systematically dehumanize an entire race of people, for the express purpose of perpetrating slavery and Jim Crow and consequence-free state murder, are orders of magnitude worse and more harmful than ones minority populations might use to describe the majority.

I don't get the purpose of trying to equate the two. It's like you don't understand how language works.

Yeah but if I, an individual person living in the present day, say those words to a "person of colour", what actually happens? There don't appear to be any consequences beyond provoking an emotional reaction. There's a fundamental difference between "it doesn't really matter if you say mean words to people" and "it doesn't really matter if you say mean words to people, so long as you don't say the certain specific words on this list to the certain specific people on this list". If what you really mean is the latter then you shouldn't pretend you're saying the former.

And also all the other stuff I said.

Oh, give the "let me tell you the astonishingly weird things you believe" BS a rest, will you? It's just tiresome trolling.

Lol, how is this NOT trolling? So are you saying you think the following things are "astonishingly weird things to believe"?:

a) White people can identify when non-white people are being openly racist, without also admitting they hate the non-white person for racist reasons in the same breath.
b) Non-white people don't all live in ghettos.
c) Sometimes the racism of the non-white people can go beyond "mean words".

If your only real quibble with those statements is the use of the word "racism" then I suggest the problem is with you.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

@Manfred Belheim


One more time...if you want to tell us what you think, get to it. If all you are going to do is spout off about "well, Tim thinks this, so he's wrong, and Lex thinks this, so he's wrong, etc etc etc" then you are contributing nothing and the forum would be better off without you.

 

[Lexicus]

I read it as it's "not your country" as you're one o' dem Ivory Tower SJW intellectual types. As in: politics are a zero-sum game, and since you lost the election it is to be taken as proof-positive that you also have vacated any claim to the political, cultural, or social zeitgeist. Because, y'know, that's totally how democracy works.

You read this that way?

"Almost my whole life"

Thomas Aquinas would be laughing pretty hard at that idea, even the idea that someone who is a third generation citizen could claim nationality.

 

[sophie]

You read this that way?

Uh, wow. Yeah, I missed that guy. Although the back half of that post, this part to be specific:

Most of the country that matters, the people who actually get off their butts and vote, are abandoning the Democrats en masse. You'll see, once again, as nationalism continues to germinate in the United States

does seem to suggest what I said before.

 

[Lexicus]

Uh, wow. Yeah, I missed that guy. Although the back half of that post, this part to be specific:



does seem to suggest what I said before.

True.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Uh, wow. Yeah, I missed that guy.

As a wild guess, if you miss that guy you are the first.

 

[Traitorfish]

Thomas Aquinas would be laughing pretty hard at that idea, even the idea that someone who is a third generation citizen could claim nationality.

Trump is a third-generation immigrant on his father's side, and a second-generation immigrant on his mother's side.

 

[BenitoChavez]

Trump is a third-generation immigrant on his father's side, and a second-generation immigrant on his mother's side.

And he is married to a first generation immigrant!

 

[brennan]

So immigrants are to blame for America's woes?

 

[Hygro]

You read this that way?

"Lived here almost my whole life"
Must be immigrant. Definitely couldn't have (shakes Magic Occam's Razor Ball) lived abroad for a semester.

 

[Broken_Erika]

"Lived here almost my whole life"
Must be immigrant. Definitely couldn't have (shakes Magic Occam's Razor Ball) lived abroad for a semester.

When you Live abroad for any length of time you renounce your citizenship rights forevah!*
*unless you are a Republican of course.

 

[Ryika]

"Lived here almost my whole life"
Must be immigrant. Definitely couldn't have (shakes Magic Occam's Razor Ball) lived abroad for a semester.

I would assume most people who utter the sentence are immigrants. I mean, it's sort of the American thing right? A combination of being a country of immigrants, and of being a terribly run country that almost nobody wants to move back to once they've left.

 

[metalhead]

Yeah but if I, an individual person living in the present day, say those words to a "person of colour", what actually happens? There don't appear to be any consequences beyond provoking an emotional reaction. There's a fundamental difference between "it doesn't really matter if you say mean words to people" and "it doesn't really matter if you say mean words to people, so long as you don't say the certain specific words on this list to the certain specific people on this list".

It always matters how you treat other people. It always matters if you say mean words to people. The meaner the words, the more likely they are to hurt someone. Some words, because of the historical context in which they were in common use, can still be used to dehumanize others. Particularly since many institutions and people here struggle to even recognize the humanity of people of color.

So of course, sure, it's not good for people of color to use racial slurs against white people. But can they be dehumanizing in the same way? Not really, because they don't have that context surrounding them.

So in the end it's a matter of degree. And the degrees can vary widely.

 

[bernie14]

"Almost my whole life"

Thomas Aquinas would be laughing pretty hard at that idea, even the idea that someone who is a third generation citizen could claim nationality.

And the polls you quote have been proven to be skewed since before 2016, so try that on someone who doesn't know how to read polling sample data.

Most of the country that matters, the people who actually get off their butts and vote, are abandoning the Democrats en masse. You'll see, once again, as nationalism continues to germinate in the United States

In the united states, nationality can be claimed after 3 to 5 years

 

[Hygro]

I would assume most people who utter the sentence are immigrants. I mean, it's sort of the American thing right? A combination of being a country of immigrants, and of being a terribly run country that almost nobody wants to move back to once they've left.

Until you come here and find America is much more than the government that runs parts.

Most people who speak like Lex did are saying they studied abroad in college.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I would assume most people who utter the sentence are immigrants. I mean, it's sort of the American thing right? A combination of being a country of immigrants, and of being a terribly run country that almost nobody wants to move back to once they've left.

I lived here almost my whole life. I spent the better part of five years living on a submarine in the Pacific. Does serving in the military make me a less than citizen?