The Soviet Union

[Gelion]

^^^ and ^^^^
my pleasure

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

I should also note that the Jews were given an autonomous region within the homeland (which still exists today, though today the jewish population of the region is negligible), evidence enough of freedom of religion.

 

[amadeus]

Right, so when Stalin deported Jews there he was really trying to free them?

The JAO was created to keep the Soviet Jews under the thumb of Stalin as opposed to fleeing to the British Mandate.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

The Soviet Constitution explicitly forbade infringing on any human's fundamental right to freedom of religion. The Jewish Autonomous Region was created as a Jewish homeland, in the mould of Israel, though it was obviously never as successful as Israel and today practically no Jews live in it.

 

[Winner]

Local languages were there, local capitals and autonomies existed. Crimea for example (mostly Russian) was given to Ukraine. You are sure it served Russian interests? And 1000s of Russian people killed by Lithuanian Red Riflemen? Seceret plan to compromise poor Latvians? % wise what was the make up of GULAG? Your claims would look nice except for the fact that they weren't true. Whole regions of Siberia recieved less money than Lativa is Soviet days.

Yeah, I know your stories well. Poor Russians sacrificed themselves to help the poorer parts of USSR Sure

USSR was an Empire. Dot. Tečka. The end. You can try to point at millions of unimportant detail, because the fact is, that Russians conquered the countries surrounding them, included them into their Empire against their will and then granted them some virtual autonomy to pretend nothing wrong happened. Then there are some people like you who even dare to say that Russians did it to benefit them. Right.

As for the leadership just name me one truly Russian Soviet leader (besides Gorbachev, we know what he did don't we?)?

Lenin. Khrushchev. Brezhnev (born in Ukraine, but he was Russian). Andropov. Chernenko
Besides, the top military and political leaders were also mainly Russians.

As I say, please stop trying to prove that the USSR was some kind of a democratic commonwealth of nations, because it was not. We all know the history behind the USSR, we all know that the original name was Soviet Russia, we all know that the Baltic nations were illegally annexed and then russified.

You're hopelessly trying to persuade us, that the Russians are innocent, that they've never done anything bad. That's what I call ignorance

Scotland *cough* cough* Ireland *cough cough* Wales *cough cough* so lets leave it there ok?

That's poor even for you

 

[nonconformist]

The Soviet Constitution explicitly forbade infringing on any human's fundamental right to freedom of religion. The Jewish Autonomous Region was created as a Jewish homeland, in the mould of Israel, though it was obviously never as successful as Israel and today practically no Jews live in it.

Are you a nutcase? The Soviet constitution was a sham. Sure, the USSR was a democratic country with freedom of expression, but it wasn't .

 

[Commy]

USSR was an Empire. Dot. Tečka. The end.

Crushing argument

Russians conquered the countries surrounding them, included them into their Empire against their will.

Ukraine asked Russia includ it (Ukranian cosacks said they want under the high ruling of great tzar).
Georgia asked Russia includ it.
Kazakhstan asked Russia includ it.

Lenin. Khrushchev. Brezhnev (born in Ukraine, but he was Russian). Andropov. Chernenko

Lenin was Jewish in a quarter. Stalin was Georgian. Khruschev and Brezhnev were Ukrainians at half. Gorbachev was Ukrainian.

Besides, the top military and political leaders were also mainly Russians.

Military leaders - mainly, but not all. Political leaders - not even mainly.

As I say, please stop trying to prove that the USSR was some kind of a democratic commonwealth of nations, because it was not. We all know the history behind the USSR, we all know that the original name was Soviet Russia, we all know that the Baltic nations were illegally annexed and then russified.

Its interesting, how many dollars USA spending for anti-soviet and anti-Russian propaganda?

 

[Winner]

Crushing argument

Exactly. According to the definition, USSR was an Empire. There isn't much more to discuss

Ukraine asked Russia includ it (Ukranian cosacks said they want under the high ruling of great tzar).

Semi-independent since the end of WW1, then divided between Poland and Russia. Devastated by the Stalin-engineered famine in the 30's.

Georgia asked Russia includ it.

Attacked and subjugated in 1921 - wiki article:

In February 1921 Georgia was attacked by the Red Army. Georgian troops lost the battle and the Social-Democrat government fled the country. On February 25, 1921 the Red Army entered the capital Tbilisi and installed a puppet communist government led by Georgian Bolshevik Filipp Makharadze. Georgia was incorporated into a Transcaucasian Federative Soviet Socialist Republic uniting Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan. The TFSSR was disaggregated into its component elements in 1936 and Georgia became the Georgian SSR.

Kazakhstan asked Russia includ it.

You know what? Learn something about the history before making such ridiculous claims. What will be next? That the Czechoslovakia happily welcomed the fraternal Soviet help in 1968?

Lenin was Jewish in a quarter. Stalin was Georgian. Khruschev and Brezhnev were Ukrainians at half. Gorbachev was Ukrainian.

Stop making excuses. Hitler was Austrian, Napoleon was Corsican. So what? Besides those leaders were mostly Russians, they followed the traditional Russian interest, and that's what matters.

Military leaders - mainly, but not all. Political leaders - not even mainly.

Sure, whatever.

Its interesting, how many dollars USA spending for anti-soviet and anti-Russian propaganda?

Sorry, no propaganda is needed - one don't need it to hate the USSR, after what it did to the Eastern part of Europe. The fact the Russians on this forum are trying to vindicate it clearly shows us, that they still think about is as of some sort of their Empire.

 

[Commy]

Ukraine
Left-Bank Ukraine was integrated into Russia as the Cossack Hetmanate, as a consequence of the Treaty of Pereyaslav in 1667, i.e. voluntarily

Georgia
In 1800 emperor Paul I, following request of king George XII, signed the Proclamation of the unification of Georgia (Kartl-Kakheti) with Russia. Unification with Russia saved Georgians from genocid and assimilation from neghbouring Iran and Turkey.

Kazakhstan
In XVIII it was separated to free hordes: Great, Midle and Small
In 1730 Small horde's khan Abulkhair request Russian government of including in Russia. This request was complied. In 1740 Middle horde voluntarely became a part of Russia.

 

[amadeus]

The Soviet Constitution explicitly forbade infringing on any human's fundamental right to freedom of religion.

How many of those cases actually held up in trials? How many people charged ever received trials?

The Jewish Autonomous Region was created as a Jewish homeland, in the mould of Israel, though it was obviously never as successful as Israel and today practically no Jews live in it.

It was made before Israel and it was carved out of one of the most harsh climate areas inside of the Soviet state.

 

[amadeus]

Ukraine
Left-Bank Ukraine was integrated into Russia as the Cossack Hetmanate, as a consequence of the Treaty of Pereyaslav in 1667, i.e. voluntarily

Georgia
In 1800 emperor Paul I, following request of king George XII, signed the Proclamation of the unification of Georgia (Kartl-Kakheti) with Russia. Unification with Russia saved Georgians from genocid and assimilation from neghbouring Iran and Turkey.

Kazakhstan
In XVIII it was separated to free hordes: Great, Midle and Small
In 1730 Small horde's khan Abulkhair request Russian government of including in Russia. This request was complied. In 1740 Middle horde voluntarely became a part of Russia.

All over 100 years before the Soviet Union was even a thought. Even for your last example, Karl Marx still wouldn't be born for another 18 years.

For some very bizarre reason, I just had a picture in my mind of Karl Marx playing "Johnny B. Goode" at the Enchantment Under the Sea dance.

 

[newfangle]

I love it when people try to convince citizens of former Soviet-dominated countries that it was a good thing.

How many Ukrainians, Poles, Hungarians, and pretty much any non-Russian think highly of the USSR? Case closed. Only deluded Russian hypernationalists and pimply suburban whites buy into it.

 

[Babbler]

Right, so when Stalin deported Jews there he was really trying to free them?

The JAO was created to keep the Soviet Jews under the thumb of Stalin as opposed to fleeing to the British Mandate.

Don't forget it was on the Soviet Far East, which was sparely populated (due to the horrible weather), far of the centers of power and could serve as a buffer to a Chinese attack (note how Russia loved setting up buffer zones).

 

[amadeus]

Yes, it was set up nowhere around the centers of Soviet Jewry, something of course Stalin wanted to contain or even in his later years exterminate.

 

[Winner]

Ukraine
Left-Bank Ukraine was integrated into Russia as the Cossack Hetmanate, as a consequence of the Treaty of Pereyaslav in 1667, i.e. voluntarily

Georgia
In 1800 emperor Paul I, following request of king George XII, signed the Proclamation of the unification of Georgia (Kartl-Kakheti) with Russia. Unification with Russia saved Georgians from genocid and assimilation from neghbouring Iran and Turkey.

Kazakhstan
In XVIII it was separated to free hordes: Great, Midle and Small
In 1730 Small horde's khan Abulkhair request Russian government of including in Russia. This request was complied. In 1740 Middle horde voluntarely became a part of Russia.

We're talking about Soviet Union, Soviet Russia and it's expansion. Try to keep that in mind

 

[Steph]

Georgia
In 1800 emperor Paul I,

Russia was not an empire. But it had emperor

 

[la cosa nostra]

Ukraine
Left-Bank Ukraine was integrated into Russia as the Cossack Hetmanate, as a consequence of the Treaty of Pereyaslav in 1667, i.e. voluntarily

Bull. I'm sure that the Russians who were living in Ukraine probably did want integration, and I'm sure place like Donetsk in the east of the country probably would have voted for it. But the people of Ukraine were and wanted an independant nation - and 20 million dead people later in 1945, who could blame them? Imagine a Ukraine allowed to develop its economy freely - without the USSR's degenerate system holding it back.

As a Ukrainian let me say - the day the USSR (the most evil, intellectual hating and murdorous country in history and the world ever) collapsed was the happiest day of my life - yet the USSR left its imprint of murder and corruption ingrained very deep in society, the same it had with the Warsaw Pact countries and so forth.

To answer the question of this topic - no, Why? Becuase Russian officials are too busy taking military money out of the coffers and putting it in their pockets.

 

[Squonk]

Someone has been watching the Simpsons...

It was a great episode

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Wolverines!

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

I suppose it would be possible in some alternate universe.