The Space Elevator

[onejayhawk]

The concept of a physical line from the surface of the earth to synchronous orbit is an old one. Arthur Clarke wrote of it in his book The Fountains of Paradise and Kim Stanley Robinson in her books on a Martian revolution. However, finding serious articles on the subject is non-trivial. If you know any, post them here.

J

 

[IAM]

Besides financial and political will one hang up is having a material light enough and strong enough to work. And then of course a feasible location. Geographically and politically stabile. But whoever foots the bill will make that choice.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...levator-could-be-built-by-2035-says-new-study

 

[onejayhawk]

Carbon nanotubules seem to be the material of the moment, but current processes leave them too short.

The political issues are not to be lightly discarded. One fortunate change from early models is the flutter factor of a ribbon. In Robinson's Mars trilogy the cable caused extreme damage when it fell.

J

 

[peter grimes]

SPOILERS, gentlemen!! I'm half way through the first Mars book (and thoroughly loving it).

Why is the political stability a concern? Isn't it just like any other mega-project, like a dam or a bridge?

 

[El_Machinae]

It certainly is non-trivial.
I have signed up for the International Space Elevator Consortium's newsletter. I get regular updates, the latest one included an update regarding this year's conference. They have a scientific journal that you can subscribe to. It's not very expensive, all told, and I like giving token amounts of money to these world-changing efforts. It's not super-duper cheap, but cheap enough.

As well, you can use google scholar instead of google when looking for scientific articles. It takes a wee bit of practice, but you learn how to create better searches with time and how to get access to the open-access articles. It's not always peer reviewed, so you have to be a bit careful/cynical.

 

[onejayhawk]

SPOILERS, gentlemen!! I'm half way through the first Mars book (and thoroughly loving it).

Why is the political stability a concern? Isn't it just like any other mega-project, like a dam or a bridge?

Or a World Trade Center.

I have a feeling this is something that will hinge on a single breakthrough. Fullerenes are generally quite interesting, so research is running on numerous other tracks.

J

 

[peter grimes]

Yeah, the Occupy Wall Street guys totally threatened the timely completion of yet another office tower in a city full of office towers /sarcasm

I don't think a space elevator is any more of a political risk than, say, siting a launch facility in a colony .

 

[Samez]

IMHO cnts will never be made into a fiber long enough without atomic defects. (in this case: defects = reduced strength) It would be a bit like being victorious over entropy.
In the end it is probably cheaper to only get up into orbit what really needs to come from earth (i.e. life and data) and get anything else directly from space (asteroids and so on) without fighting gravity.
The wiki page of space elevators seems to link to some more serious articles (e.g.: References 2, 4, 6 8, 29, 31...) Finding many hard science articles about space elevators is probably quite difficult as the fundamentals (building material, location and exact concept) are not available (yet).
You can start reading plenty of articles on nano tubes and nano mechanics but this might lead you astray.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Isn't Kim Stanley Robinson a man?

 

[onejayhawk]

Isn't Kim Stanley Robinson a man?

Yup. Do not confuse with actress Kim Stanley.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._2005.JPG/250px-Kim_Stanley_Robinson_2005.JPG

IMHO cnts will never be made into a fiber long enough without atomic defects. (in this case: defects = reduced strength) It would be a bit like being victorious over entropy.
In the end it is probably cheaper to only get up into orbit what really needs to come from earth (i.e. life and data) and get anything else directly from space (asteroids and so on) without fighting gravity.
The wiki page of space elevators seems to link to some more serious articles (e.g.: References 2, 4, 6 8, 29, 31...) Finding many hard science articles about space elevators is probably quite difficult as the fundamentals (building material, location and exact concept) are not available (yet).
You can start reading plenty of articles on nano tubes and nano mechanics but this might lead you astray.

It does not require a big step forward. The required fibers exist, but separating an aligning them is non trivial. Ironically, it may be easier in free fall. Also a vacuum safe binding agent is not yet available IIRC,

J

 

[KMRblue1027]

Is Northern Brazil in the region where a space elevator could be constructed? It seems like it would be the obvious choice rather than somewhere like Cuba.

 

[peter grimes]

Why not Guiana? They already have a ton of the support infrastructure installed, staffed, and operating well.

 

[Kyriakos]

Or a World Trade Center.

I have a feeling this is something that will hinge on a single breakthrough. Fullerenes are generally quite interesting, so research is running on numerous other tracks.

J

Granted that i never looked for the current estimates/plans on the construction of a space elevator, but surely its cost would be a lot more than that of a mere (albeit massive) skyscraper?

Even Saudiland created a larger (overall mass) tower-building already than the new WTC.

*

Also: can any of you post some general info about what the space elevator would be about? Where would it actually take one to? How would it work? (i mean the movement of the platforms, mostly). Etc

 

[peter grimes]

Is google behind a paywall in Greece?

http://science.howstuffworks.com/space-elevator.htm

 

[Kyriakos]

Not unless it is trying to work against our current junta, but -like i said- i did not look up the space elevator yet, so...

 

[Glassfan]

Clarke's The Fountains of Paradise does, perhaps inadvertently, detail many of the problems involved with building such a structure. For instance, the material keeps changing - Clarke invisioned a sort of diamond rope - today we talk about nanocarbon. In the future it'll be something else. We're a long way from doing this.

If the Chinese really become a super-power, maybe it'll be their Panama Canal...

 

[IAM]

IMHO cnts will never be made into a fiber long enough without atomic defects. (in this case: defects = reduced strength) It would be a bit like being victorious over entropy.
In the end it is probably cheaper to only get up into orbit what really needs to come from earth (i.e. life and data) and get anything else directly from space (asteroids and so on) without fighting gravity.The wiki page of space elevators seems to link to some more serious articles (e.g.: References 2, 4, 6 8, 29, 31...) Finding many hard science articles about space elevators is probably quite difficult as the fundamentals (building material, location and exact concept) are not available (yet).
You can start reading plenty of articles on nano tubes and nano mechanics but this might lead you astray.

Exactly but we need to build a ship capable of doing everything on station. Acquiring raw materials from an asteroid and bringing them to earth to be finished and then sent back into space gives us the same problem. So the space elevator could make building a massive ship that could make trips lasting decades feasible. Once we get there then everything should be on the ship to mine, repair, build new equipment etc. Next we advance our propulsion technology and bing bang boom we have an interstellar colony ship.

 

[El_Machinae]

Apparently you don't need flawless CNTs, that flawed CNTs can be of sufficient strength. Also, remember, there's no need to just have one Space Elevator, there can be many (in fact, redundancy would be a good idea). The cost to launch the second SE will be much smaller (due to having an SE to help out), and the Earthside footprint is pretty small. Additionally, the wealth that they can generate is pretty durned high.

 

[Cutlass]

How far from the equator can one of these be built? What's the geographic limitation on the base?

 

[warpus]

I think you'd want it right on the equator, the end attached to some sort of a floating island.