The Sword of Osman
- Thread starter Cam_H
- Start date
Well, thanks for investing the time to look into this, Cam!
I hope you are right, and you certainly seem to have identified one of my weaknesses: evidently, I can't find the right track to both get useful techs and techs to exchange for useful techs. The other one definitely is the timing of switching from economy to war prep... almostly constantly s.o. declares on me, while it seems to be the other way round with stronger players.
Thanks again for the comments!
I hope you are right, and you certainly seem to have identified one of my weaknesses: evidently, I can't find the right track to both get useful techs and techs to exchange for useful techs. The other one definitely is the timing of switching from economy to war prep... almostly constantly s.o. declares on me, while it seems to be the other way round with stronger players.
Thanks again for the comments!
Really not so much as comments as kind of "Rah! Rah! You can bash 'em! Five Rings you can smash 'em" type confidence building! 
OK ... more analytically ... you're on an island with three of the four worst warmongers possible and a religious nutter. You're also surrounded with jungle, and the bulk of your resources are Plantation based. Furthermore, you didn't hit Copper, and your Horses are in a fairly difficult spot (not near food). Let's face it - it's a tough roll of the dice there.
From here, I'd try to improve your tech' rate as best you can, and trade for Mathematics with Monty. He'll also give you a Gold<>Clams deal that's worth your while. Construction (Catapults), Currencytraderoute, and Calendar (Plantations) all stem off Mathematics. I have no problems with you shooting for The Great Library in Delhi.
Really Shaka's and Alex's forces are nuisances only, and your Axemen shouldn't fall too often against these Archers (esp. if you push them into the open). I was able to take Argos with little resistance after consolidating your Axes (and adding some more), and I bribed Montezuma to attack Alexander (with Construction) which helped with my Aztec-India lovefest and distracted the Greeks at the same time.
I'd just maintain good relations with Montezuma, and keep smacking around Alexander. In the meantime, cottage up your empire as you've started to do.
OK ... more analytically ... you're on an island with three of the four worst warmongers possible and a religious nutter. You're also surrounded with jungle, and the bulk of your resources are Plantation based. Furthermore, you didn't hit Copper, and your Horses are in a fairly difficult spot (not near food). Let's face it - it's a tough roll of the dice there.
From here, I'd try to improve your tech' rate as best you can, and trade for Mathematics with Monty. He'll also give you a Gold<>Clams deal that's worth your while. Construction (Catapults), Currency
traderoute, and Calendar (Plantations) all stem off Mathematics. I have no problems with you shooting for The Great Library in Delhi.Really Shaka's and Alex's forces are nuisances only, and your Axemen shouldn't fall too often against these Archers (esp. if you push them into the open). I was able to take Argos with little resistance after consolidating your Axes (and adding some more), and I bribed Montezuma to attack Alexander (with Construction) which helped with my Aztec-India lovefest and distracted the Greeks at the same time.
I'd just maintain good relations with Montezuma, and keep smacking around Alexander. In the meantime, cottage up your empire as you've started to do.
Thank you, Cam! I appreciate your fiddling with this and giving me some excellent insights! I'll give it a try tomorrow.
Now, as I understand, there are no serious objections to the planning posted in my previous email nor are there any stunning ideas to approach the situation differently, so I'll proceed as planned. I'll go back to the game and report later.
Now, as I understand, there are no serious objections to the planning posted in my previous email nor are there any stunning ideas to approach the situation differently, so I'll proceed as planned. I'll go back to the game and report later.
T31
*Northern warrior goes to the hut to the East, one Ista wariior goes NE, the other SE
*worker starts roading the farm
HA changed to Pottery (9t)
T33
*worker starts camping the second (northernmost| ivory
*the great Satan makes the hut vanish into thin air
T34
*Kublai Khan visits us - or we his scout and archer? Peace. KK knows only Sal and is annoyed with him.
T35
*Alex. Peace. He's the most homeloving person on Pangaea, astonished to meet somebody else in this best of the worlds.
T37
*Worker starts third camping of ivory
*Eastern warrior lands by a panther; Northwestern warrior sees the actual border of Egypt
T38
* the panther in the East throws itself on our warrior's sword. Not even a trace of blood on him. That's bad: he should better have checked at the emergency, not sailed forth like the overconfident Bour in the Bush in the story of future times to come told by this weird first wife of the Sultan... That hut that now appears to the East...is it not again the great Satan playing games with him? No, don't go there, brave man! He listens not to the whispers in the dark, though...
T39
* Pottery>Mysticism (6t)
* Worker starts last camp on ivory
T40
* Ramesses adopts Slavery. He, he, he, smiles FahRudin the Dumb who has just kissed the feet of the Sultan and has been ordered to take care of the army and the city while the Sultan withdrew into the harem for a week or so to pursue much more important things than running his empire. Hi,hi, hi, smiles FR, Ram is a ram, so late, poor man. FR, FR, come to your senses, you fat lump of dirt under the shoes of the Sultan! Don't forget: you have yet to brace up and face the revolt before even getting some slaves.... No, he is not listening too....
*Eastern warrior pops the hut in the jungle and, lo, a tiny unhappy Barby looks at him all pleading for mercy. Brace up, man! Hut out, hut in, now just one Barby, isn't it weird enough?
T41
* the Eastern warrior is dead, killed by a Barby on a jungle... What next trick the Satan will play?
* settler>warrior (5t)
* settler starts for the place that the divine Sultan has shown us on the map with his lofty HERE
* NW warrior starts back towards Edirne's future city - just in case, too many dirty tricks...; SW warrior continues to poke his nose around the southern part of the Gold Region
T42
* NW warrior lands by a bear. It is good that he's on the forest hill 1S of the Lonely Mountain he's ready to give it a fight and even die but distract the beast from the settler. But will the bear be lured away? Isn't it going to run after the hapless helpless settler?
T43
* Bear attacks and gets killed (1/2) thank you, Almighty! Instead of healing, the warrior continues towards the settler as he's ready to give his last liter of blood but protect the settler, if needed
* worker ordered to go cottage the northern river shore. Oh stupid FR, brainless parody of a vesir, why not send him directly to the copper field? And what's happened with your earning for slaves to bring you the sherbet and baklava?
T44
* Mysticism>Meditation (8t) on the line to Priesthood (8t)
* Edirne founded: monument started (15t)
* worker redirected to the copper mine (sorry, guys!)
T45
* Ista goes to 3; warrior>warrior (3t)
* Ista newly trained warrior goes East to meet the wicked Barby killer, er, just to secure the ivory camps for now
* Edirne connected to Ista
*wounded NE warrior fortified in Edirne to heal
T48
* Ista: warrior>warrior (3t)
* Ista newly trained warrior goes SE
*Eastern warrior lands by a lion. And a second lion further east. Good that our warrior is on the jungle hill just north of the gems
T49
* the lion attacks the Eastern warrior and gets killed (1.4/2), left to heal
*the SE warrior also sees a lion to the SE, but this one is severely wounded (0.3/2)
* worker starts mining the copper by Edirne
T50
* Edirne warrior sent to the West
END
No: remembered about the Slavery, decided that there's no need to lose one more turn to revolt - sorry, SP, you'll get an additional turn from me next time.
SUMMING UP:
*current tech research: Meditation (1t) [all turn counts - appropriate after aanrchy is over]
*current prod: in Ista - warrior (1t), in Ed - monument (9t)
*current staff: 4 warriors: 1 NE and 1 SE of Ista, ! by Ed, 1 in the far NW by Thebes(level 6 capital)
*current points: 153 (Ram=189, KK=180, Sal=152, Alex=145)
I have taken screenshots but can't move them from the save to the post
Here's the save, too:
*Northern warrior goes to the hut to the East, one Ista wariior goes NE, the other SE
*worker starts roading the farm
HA changed to Pottery (9t)
T33
*worker starts camping the second (northernmost| ivory
*the great Satan makes the hut vanish into thin air
T34
*Kublai Khan visits us - or we his scout and archer? Peace. KK knows only Sal and is annoyed with him.
T35
*Alex. Peace. He's the most homeloving person on Pangaea, astonished to meet somebody else in this best of the worlds.
T37
*Worker starts third camping of ivory
*Eastern warrior lands by a panther; Northwestern warrior sees the actual border of Egypt
T38
* the panther in the East throws itself on our warrior's sword. Not even a trace of blood on him. That's bad: he should better have checked at the emergency, not sailed forth like the overconfident Bour in the Bush in the story of future times to come told by this weird first wife of the Sultan... That hut that now appears to the East...is it not again the great Satan playing games with him? No, don't go there, brave man! He listens not to the whispers in the dark, though...
T39
* Pottery>Mysticism (6t)
* Worker starts last camp on ivory
T40
* Ramesses adopts Slavery. He, he, he, smiles FahRudin the Dumb who has just kissed the feet of the Sultan and has been ordered to take care of the army and the city while the Sultan withdrew into the harem for a week or so to pursue much more important things than running his empire. Hi,hi, hi, smiles FR, Ram is a ram, so late, poor man. FR, FR, come to your senses, you fat lump of dirt under the shoes of the Sultan! Don't forget: you have yet to brace up and face the revolt before even getting some slaves.... No, he is not listening too....
*Eastern warrior pops the hut in the jungle and, lo, a tiny unhappy Barby looks at him all pleading for mercy. Brace up, man! Hut out, hut in, now just one Barby, isn't it weird enough?
T41
* the Eastern warrior is dead, killed by a Barby on a jungle... What next trick the Satan will play?
* settler>warrior (5t)
* settler starts for the place that the divine Sultan has shown us on the map with his lofty HERE
* NW warrior starts back towards Edirne's future city - just in case, too many dirty tricks...; SW warrior continues to poke his nose around the southern part of the Gold Region
T42
* NW warrior lands by a bear. It is good that he's on the forest hill 1S of the Lonely Mountain he's ready to give it a fight and even die but distract the beast from the settler. But will the bear be lured away? Isn't it going to run after the hapless helpless settler?
T43
* Bear attacks and gets killed (1/2) thank you, Almighty! Instead of healing, the warrior continues towards the settler as he's ready to give his last liter of blood but protect the settler, if needed
* worker ordered to go cottage the northern river shore. Oh stupid FR, brainless parody of a vesir, why not send him directly to the copper field? And what's happened with your earning for slaves to bring you the sherbet and baklava?
T44
* Mysticism>Meditation (8t) on the line to Priesthood (8t)
* Edirne founded: monument started (15t)
* worker redirected to the copper mine (sorry, guys!)
T45
* Ista goes to 3; warrior>warrior (3t)
* Ista newly trained warrior goes East to meet the wicked Barby killer, er, just to secure the ivory camps for now
* Edirne connected to Ista
*wounded NE warrior fortified in Edirne to heal
T48
* Ista: warrior>warrior (3t)
* Ista newly trained warrior goes SE
*Eastern warrior lands by a lion. And a second lion further east. Good that our warrior is on the jungle hill just north of the gems
T49
* the lion attacks the Eastern warrior and gets killed (1.4/2), left to heal
*the SE warrior also sees a lion to the SE, but this one is severely wounded (0.3/2)
* worker starts mining the copper by Edirne
T50
* Edirne warrior sent to the West
END
No: remembered about the Slavery, decided that there's no need to lose one more turn to revolt - sorry, SP, you'll get an additional turn from me next time.
SUMMING UP:
*current tech research: Meditation (1t) [all turn counts - appropriate after aanrchy is over]
*current prod: in Ista - warrior (1t), in Ed - monument (9t)
*current staff: 4 warriors: 1 NE and 1 SE of Ista, ! by Ed, 1 in the far NW by Thebes(level 6 capital)
*current points: 153 (Ram=189, KK=180, Sal=152, Alex=145)
I have taken screenshots but can't move them from the save to the post
Here's the save, too:
Nice to see a bit more of Egypt too.I think, I might have played somewhat better if it was not after a very hard second half of the week, including two days of travel, including travel on Saturday... I have lost a move of the worker, the anarchy could have cost much less, and I am still not certain whether I should have been in such a haste to mine the copper as opposed to first finishing a cottage by Ista (I guess, the loss of the warrior when having a 50% advantage was a bit destabilizing.)
The more I am pondering on what to do, the less I like my decision to build a monument in Ed (I usually go for grannary first, but here it seems even better to use Ed for pushing up workers and settlers while working only the mine+, at least till IW and jungle-cutting.
I'd wait for another day for PS to let him first share his thoughts on the future both as this is his turn and as this might save me some further face-losing. Just to keep the ball rolling: I see four potential sites to the East, NE and North, and one to the West (but this needs more reconnaissance there). I would continue producing warriors to bust more fog and watch after Ram's, Kublai's and Alex's intentions, but would switch to more settlers and workers. Now, how this can go hand in hand with the Oracle, I am not sure. If Egypt was closer, I would have been tempted to blitz Thebes with axes before Ramesses gets them or gets to construction. I would consider the same possibility regarding the Khan: he's real close and gets closer, but I couldn't see a lot from his land. Now, despite sounding like a wormonger, I am not and when I look at the power graph, I understand pretty well that these are only dreams...and will be such for quite a long time. On the other hand, what I see as the REX-ing way, doesn't appeal at all to my soul of a civilized farm-builder... How could Pangaea be so dry!?!
The more I am pondering on what to do, the less I like my decision to build a monument in Ed (I usually go for grannary first, but here it seems even better to use Ed for pushing up workers and settlers while working only the mine+, at least till IW and jungle-cutting.
I'd wait for another day for PS to let him first share his thoughts on the future both as this is his turn and as this might save me some further face-losing. Just to keep the ball rolling: I see four potential sites to the East, NE and North, and one to the West (but this needs more reconnaissance there). I would continue producing warriors to bust more fog and watch after Ram's, Kublai's and Alex's intentions, but would switch to more settlers and workers. Now, how this can go hand in hand with the Oracle, I am not sure. If Egypt was closer, I would have been tempted to blitz Thebes with axes before Ramesses gets them or gets to construction. I would consider the same possibility regarding the Khan: he's real close and gets closer, but I couldn't see a lot from his land. Now, despite sounding like a wormonger, I am not and when I look at the power graph, I understand pretty well that these are only dreams...and will be such for quite a long time. On the other hand, what I see as the REX-ing way, doesn't appeal at all to my soul of a civilized farm-builder... How could Pangaea be so dry!?!
Oh, and, Cam, not to sound preposterous, but it just has come to my mind and I can't help asking: wouldn't it have been more in line with history to require not building the Hague Sophia, but conquering the city where it was built by 1450 and razing it if this were not a Greek city? ... That's something to consider if one wants to give this set-up a new try sometime later ... but I guess BtS with the Byzantium empire looks a much prettier story anyway if one tries to get historical ... and Russia and Persia as AIs might be a nice touch, too ... I liked very much that recent GotM set-up where Saladin started with the three centres of Arab culture... the map there was also a very good replica of the Mediterranean region...
Five Rings,
Thanks for your thoughts ... I agree with many of the points you make. I have a pretty clear idea what I'd do in this game, but I'd prefer to hear some views from woopdeedoo first. With that said ...
I do agree that a Monument in Edirne is at least debatable. Istanbul's borders are about to pop, so we'll get that next riverside Hill in Edirne's big-fat-cross anyway. On the other hand, you did (imho) exactly the right thing with the Worker ... I think that we need Copper on line as soon as possible.
_____
Thanks also for your thoughts on the historical-ish theme. Persia was actually part of Mongolia around that time afaik, and I was thinking that keeping India in and dropping Persia might have been more acurate. Quite right though on taking rather than building Hagia Sophia (although Mehmed II did a sort of rennovation on it I think after Constantinople fell?), and obviously the Ottomans didn't found Islam, but it makes for a 'kind of' culturally apropriate game variant ... kind of.
I'm not familiar with that GotM, so I'll check that out.
Thanks for your thoughts ... I agree with many of the points you make. I have a pretty clear idea what I'd do in this game, but I'd prefer to hear some views from woopdeedoo first. With that said ...
I do agree that a Monument in Edirne is at least debatable. Istanbul's borders are about to pop, so we'll get that next riverside Hill in Edirne's big-fat-cross anyway. On the other hand, you did (imho) exactly the right thing with the Worker ... I think that we need Copper on line as soon as possible.
_____
Thanks also for your thoughts on the historical-ish theme. Persia was actually part of Mongolia around that time afaik, and I was thinking that keeping India in and dropping Persia might have been more acurate. Quite right though on taking rather than building Hagia Sophia (although Mehmed II did a sort of rennovation on it I think after Constantinople fell?), and obviously the Ottomans didn't found Islam, but it makes for a 'kind of' culturally apropriate game variant ... kind of.
I'm not familiar with that GotM, so I'll check that out. 
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
I'm listening to the Liverpool match at the moment.
They're 3-0 up
I'll read this thread and make some suggestions on my play later, and probably play tomorrow night, sound like a plan?
They're 3-0 up
I'll read this thread and make some suggestions on my play later, and probably play tomorrow night, sound like a plan?
Thanks for the guide, Cam!
I thought that you're onto something like this: a lot of warriorsto build, thanks for getting a good view of Egypt, and lately the unequivocal support of the transfer of the worker to work the copper...
If we have discussed something - like this - even remotely, I sure won't have started building the monument... but hey, that was a clear mistake from whichever side you look at it, I am really sorry, team!
Bottomline: I have tried a rush in my previous incarnations - I remember very well one of my first games in the Vanilla where I got copper in my capital city - but I seem to like the process of playing more than the win itself, so I haven't done this very often, well I have done it in the latest Vanilla GotM but won't discuss it as the gameis still on...for the others, at least ...
THE bottom line: I am all in for it, if the team feels overall bloodthirsty...
And the Persia thing might be right, although I seem to remember vaguely about a great battle fought in the early years of the Ottoman empire that took place close to a Persian town... need to check the Ottoman history ...
I thought that you're onto something like this: a lot of warriorsto build, thanks for getting a good view of Egypt, and lately the unequivocal support of the transfer of the worker to work the copper...
If we have discussed something - like this - even remotely, I sure won't have started building the monument... but hey, that was a clear mistake from whichever side you look at it, I am really sorry, team!
Bottomline: I have tried a rush in my previous incarnations - I remember very well one of my first games in the Vanilla where I got copper in my capital city - but I seem to like the process of playing more than the win itself, so I haven't done this very often, well I have done it in the latest Vanilla GotM but won't discuss it as the gameis still on...for the others, at least ...
THE bottom line: I am all in for it, if the team feels overall bloodthirsty...
And the Persia thing might be right, although I seem to remember vaguely about a great battle fought in the early years of the Ottoman empire that took place close to a Persian town... need to check the Ottoman history ...
woopdeedoo
King
Sorry about not commenting, been busy at work and my two home machines are giving me grief. I had a look at the save and notice Cam's comment about us being food poor early on is, in fact, 100% correct. That said, once copper is hooked up, I still think we should consider an early rush. Rammy tends to REX like crazy and he is probably going to be the problem child so crushing him early might be best. On the other hand, his UU is an early war unit so it may hurt us.
I think if we are going to rush Ram, then we need axes and spears... LOTS OF 'EM!!!
We are also somewhat poor. I rate we go for IW soon so we can remove the jungle and start cottaging. Additionally, our poverty could hurt if we have loads of units, hurting our tech. I'm not sure if my babblings are correct, in fact I could be way off but those are the meanderings that enter my frontal lobe at this time.
I think if we are going to rush Ram, then we need axes and spears... LOTS OF 'EM!!!
We are also somewhat poor. I rate we go for IW soon so we can remove the jungle and start cottaging. Additionally, our poverty could hurt if we have loads of units, hurting our tech. I'm not sure if my babblings are correct, in fact I could be way off but those are the meanderings that enter my frontal lobe at this time.
Well, I was half reluctant to 'spill the beans' on what I think should be done, but you don't seem to object too much. Really, this is almost a textbook Axe-rush position we find ourselves in.
Personally I'd go after Kublai Kahn ... he's much closer and he's Creative, which can be a real pain for us non-Creative types as the game wears on and his established cities get their borders creeping increasingly into our turf. Obviously knocking off Mongolia isn't one of the variants, but nonetheless I still think that he looms as a prospective problem if left unchecked and possibly our best bet for now due to him being 'on our doorstep'.
Istanbul's relatively tight food situation is a little difficult for us to work around in terms of whip-and-regrow, and Edirne is worse in terms of this, so forest chops might need to play a larger part. Therefore at least one more Worker would seem appropriate, (and even possibly a Settler for grabbing that sweet spot that woopdeedoo identified to our north east {incl. Marble [for The Oracle and Hagia Sophia]} might not be completely out of the question) ...
We therefore should be careful amount managing our whipping in Istanbul, and try to get two population whips when it's at four or more population points in order to get two Axemen out in one whipping cycle: With a whip that converts one population point to 30
if we restrict a new build in Istanbul to producing between 1 and 4 in the first turn (taking into account overflow from whatever was last built), we can in the next turn whip two population points to produce 60; one 35 Axeman and nearly all of another 35 Axeman through whip overflow. This means two-ish new units for only one period of whip unhappiness. In the meantime we can chop out and even 'naturally' build more Axemen as whip anger cools off before going again. Confused already?
We will raise some
as we capture foreign cities, but nurturing a few cottages in Istanbul after we build our army won't hurt.
I admit that I do like Iron Working but I'm also mindful of the proposal to Oracle slingshot Theology and get a Great Prophet bulb toward Divine Right, which means getting a lot of those religious tech's 'in the bag'.
____________________
Anyway ... that's one proposal for consideration ... or two if we're going to consider Oracle > Theology ... if the team wants to hit Greece or Egypt instead, or just expand 'organically' instead and war later, then we can do that.
Personally I'd go after Kublai Kahn ... he's much closer and he's Creative, which can be a real pain for us non-Creative types as the game wears on and his established cities get their borders creeping increasingly into our turf. Obviously knocking off Mongolia isn't one of the variants, but nonetheless I still think that he looms as a prospective problem if left unchecked and possibly our best bet for now due to him being 'on our doorstep'.
Istanbul's relatively tight food situation is a little difficult for us to work around in terms of whip-and-regrow, and Edirne is worse in terms of this, so forest chops might need to play a larger part. Therefore at least one more Worker would seem appropriate, (and even possibly a Settler for grabbing that sweet spot that woopdeedoo identified to our north east {incl. Marble [for The Oracle and Hagia Sophia]} might not be completely out of the question) ...
We therefore should be careful amount managing our whipping in Istanbul, and try to get two population whips when it's at four or more population points in order to get two Axemen out in one whipping cycle: With a whip that converts one population point to 30
if we restrict a new build in Istanbul to producing between 1 and 4 in the first turn (taking into account overflow from whatever was last built), we can in the next turn whip two population points to produce 60; one 35 Axeman and nearly all of another 35 Axeman through whip overflow. This means two-ish new units for only one period of whip unhappiness. In the meantime we can chop out and even 'naturally' build more Axemen as whip anger cools off before going again. Confused already? We will raise some
as we capture foreign cities, but nurturing a few cottages in Istanbul after we build our army won't hurt.I admit that I do like Iron Working but I'm also mindful of the proposal to Oracle slingshot Theology and get a Great Prophet bulb toward Divine Right, which means getting a lot of those religious tech's 'in the bag'.
____________________
Anyway ... that's one proposal for consideration ... or two if we're going to consider Oracle > Theology ... if the team wants to hit Greece or Egypt instead, or just expand 'organically' instead and war later, then we can do that.
ParadigmShifter ... how are you going with getting the turnset done, if not, pre-play plan?
In the meantime, I've just done a quick video (my first 'evar') on two population point whipping that we can arguably adopt as part of a strategy to get an Axe army together if that's what we want to do.
In the meantime, I've just done a quick video (my first 'evar') on two population point whipping that we can arguably adopt as part of a strategy to get an Axe army together if that's what we want to do.
"Ummm ... so we ... errr ... 2 pop win, I mean whip the cidazens ... and errr ..." 
Also at one point I said "one unhappy citizen" when it should be "one unhappy face", but it's a small point. Micro-ing could have been technically done better at times, but I was in a hurry (fearful of the 2GB limit), and it was about the fifth time that I'd tried to record the thing, so was starting to get a bit impatient. Nonetheless, the basic point was made.
Anyway ... I hope it's of use if my team mates here weren't aware of how quickly you can get out 6 or 8 Axes with whips alone (i.e. not incl. Forest chops). This approach is even better with a Granary or several improved food resources.
Once again - I am mindful that I'm pushing the roster down this path too much, and please feel free to object if you'd rather take a different approach.
Thanks for the comment Lymond.
Also at one point I said "one unhappy citizen" when it should be "one unhappy face", but it's a small point. Micro-ing could have been technically done better at times, but I was in a hurry (fearful of the 2GB limit), and it was about the fifth time that I'd tried to record the thing, so was starting to get a bit impatient. Nonetheless, the basic point was made.
Anyway ... I hope it's of use if my team mates here weren't aware of how quickly you can get out 6 or 8 Axes with whips alone (i.e. not incl. Forest chops). This approach is even better with a Granary or several improved food resources.
Once again - I am mindful that I'm pushing the roster down this path too much, and please feel free to object if you'd rather take a different approach.
Thanks for the comment Lymond.
woopdeedoo
King
Well Cam, I also wanted to do an early rush (if you recall) so I am totally in agreement there. So I guess that's 2/4 votes for a rush. question is who. You said you are keen on the Mongols, I still rate we should take out one of the variant leaders, which one I'm not sure. But alas, the beauty of playing in a team!
I do very much like Mongolia for a few reasons; their proximity to us is far too close, they're unpopular with the two other leaders (iirc) so no problems with "You declared war on our friend", and they're Creative (leads to border tension as the game progresses).
Of the two 'variant' AI leaders, I'd suggest that in theory Alexander makes a better target for an Axe rush than does Ramesses II due to their unique units. I envisaged Egypt lined up for a Catapult / War Elephant war where War Chariots are vulnerable to our stacks rather than geared to hitting them hard. With an attack on Greece, I think we can get away with few, if any Spears in our stack(s) depending upon how speedy we are. This is all theory of course, and it's early days yet.
You're right - we live in a democracy here, so I'm more than willing to accept the majority view.
Of the two 'variant' AI leaders, I'd suggest that in theory Alexander makes a better target for an Axe rush than does Ramesses II due to their unique units. I envisaged Egypt lined up for a Catapult / War Elephant war where War Chariots are vulnerable to our stacks rather than geared to hitting them hard. With an attack on Greece, I think we can get away with few, if any Spears in our stack(s) depending upon how speedy we are. This is all theory of course, and it's early days yet.
You're right - we live in a democracy here, so I'm more than willing to accept the majority view.
