The thread on racism

[warpus]

Eh

1) they are talking very loudly (in their own language) in the shopping centre, which is rude

This is.. rude? Really? If they were speaking Polish, it wouldn't have been?

 

[Hygro]

Racism is a social structure of the oppression of one race by another so racist language is whatever perpetuates that. I don't see why it has to be biologic, the biology was simply an attempt at appealing to a trusted authority (science) to perpetuate a racist regime.

 

[luiz]

Racism is a social structure of the oppression of one race by another so racist language is whatever perpetuates that. I don't see why it has to be biologic, the biology was simply an attempt at appealing to a trusted authority (science) to perpetuate a racist regime.

Because for it to actually be racism, as opposed to mere oppression for political/economic motives, there must be a sense of superiority.

In the ancient world nation A might invade nation B and enslave and oppress its people, while at the same time not believing they are in any way inherently inferior. This wouldn't classify as racism.

I think Americans tend to take their own national experience with slavery and oppression of minorities, which was of course very racial, and extrapolate it to the whole world, thus giving race and racism an importance it simply did not have, historically, for much else of the world. That's why Americans use the word so liberally in a way that baffles (and insults) most other people.

Even in the rest of the slave-owning Americas, race played much smaller role. I'd go as far as saying that until the mid 19th Century the institution of slavery in Brazil (by far the biggest slave-owning country) was not really racist. It was a form of brutal oppression of a people, but it wasn't believed at least for the most part that they were inherently inferior. Which is why there were free blacks, who owned slaves themselves, and even made it to very high rankings of the colonial and imperial administration. Miscegenation was never forbidden or even discouraged; it was normal and entirely acceptable at all social levels (until the mid 19th Century and the rise of "scientific" racism). This couldn't possibly be the case if racism was indeed the driving factor.

 

[Farm Boy]

If you can somehow twist owning another human being to be compatible with not being "superior" to them in some way, be it ethnic or socialized, I must admit to being baffled. Should I chalk it up to simple, thoughtful, and practiced malice?

 

[attackfighter]

@attackfighter
Why are people cartoon characters? I'd argue because it feels good to belong and to believe and being a cartoon character is the easiest and safest road to achieve that.
Those are desires you are not beyond I am afraid. Neither am I for that matter.
Now:
In the one second, you say everything is pointless and in the next second you seem to say that this somehow justifies you to not care and that this is somehow right or "perfect". You are your own cartoon character I am afraid.

The universe operates in a deterministic fashion. Everything happens as it should happen -- the way it is structured. Everything is perfect in this regard.

The way you interpret the goodness and badness of the universe depends on your disposition. It's all in your mind. So you can just as easily think that everything is perfect, as you think that everything is wrong.

Thinking everything is perfect is more pleasant, so it the wiser way to think. As everything is pointless anyway, there is nothing to lost by having this pleasant frame of mind. It is the ideal way for a person to think.

Racism is something that is inside peoples heads. Just like pollution and war. Some people choose to care about those things, and they get all stressed over them. People sometimes destroy themselves by thinking about those things.

It can't always be helped, of course. Obviously someone in the Congo who has had his hand cut off cannot simply close his mind to racism.

But the people on this website don't suffer a whole lot. Their thoughts are theirs to control.

They might say they have high minded ideals, that they are rightous, and that they are saints.

I don't believe that they are sincere.

As I mentioned earlier, Dan Wakefield, a highly respected journalist who threw his lot in with righteous liberals, did so mainly just because his peers influenced him to. He was a product of his environment. I take him to be a good example of most people who think a lot about these things. What a phony.

These issues are phony issues. There's nothing to them but vain gesticulation and rhetoric. They could be consider memes -- viral ideas. Viral, like viruses.

 

[luiz]

If you can somehow twist owning another human being to be compatible with not being "superior" to them in some way, be it ethnic or socialized, I must admit to being baffled. Should I chalk it up to simple, thoughtful, and practiced malice?

Uh, yeah?
Does everyone who kills someone else believe that such person was worthless of living? Of course not, people kill other people all the time knowing full well it's wrong, but do it anyway because it might be convenient for a multitude of reasons.

Slavery was originally not racist at all. Greeks had greek slaves, Arabs had Arab slaves and so on and so forth. While the owners may have felt superior to the particular individuals they enslaved, they certainly did not extend those feeling to their entire race, because often it was the same race! And often the owners actually recognized some of their slaves as their intellectual superiors. This was of course very common in the Graeco-Roman world

 

[Farm Boy]

That, somehow, is even filthier than racism.

 

[luiz]

That, somehow, is even filthier than racism.

I don't disagree.

 

[Senethro]

The universe operates in a deterministic fashion. Everything happens as it should happen -- the way it is structured. Everything is perfect in this regard.

The way you interpret the goodness and badness of the universe depends on your disposition. It's all in your mind. So you can just as easily think that everything is perfect, as you think that everything is wrong.

Thinking everything is perfect is more pleasant, so it the wiser way to think. As everything is pointless anyway, there is nothing to lost by having this pleasant frame of mind. It is the ideal way for a person to think.

Racism is something that is inside peoples heads. Just like pollution and war. Some people choose to care about those things, and they get all stressed over them. People sometimes destroy themselves by thinking about those things.

It can't always be helped, of course. Obviously someone in the Congo who has had his hand cut off cannot simply close his mind to racism.

But the people on this website don't suffer a whole lot. Their thoughts are theirs to control.

They might say they have high minded ideals, that they are rightous, and that they are saints.

I don't believe that they are sincere.

As I mentioned earlier, Dan Wakefield, a highly respected journalist who threw his lot in with righteous liberals, did so mainly just because his peers influenced him to. He was a product of his environment. I take him to be a good example of most people who think a lot about these things. What a phony.

These issues are phony issues. There's nothing to them but vain gesticulation and rhetoric. They could be consider memes -- viral ideas. Viral, like viruses.

Weirder than the usual "deep" ramblings , I'll give you that.

 

[Domen]

This is.. rude? Really? If they were speaking Polish, it wouldn't have been?

Yes, if they were speaking Polish it would have been even more rude (by our standards), because I would have been able to understand what they actually shout to each other, which would have been interrupting my own thoughts or my own conversation even more.

When I was in Tunisia, local shopkeepers at the Bazaar were also shouting like these Gypsies do here:

"Buy Shisha!!!, Buy Shisha!!!, 50 Euro, 50 Euro!!!!! Great occasion!!! You from Poland? Nice! I speak Polish! Kurwa! Zupa z bobra dobra dobra!"

It's actually quite depressing that kurwa is the most commonly known Polish word abroad.

 

[Yeekim]

If you can somehow twist owning another human being to be compatible with not being "superior" to them in some way, be it ethnic or socialized, I must admit to being baffled. Should I chalk it up to simple, thoughtful, and practiced malice?

Serfdom and/or slavery have been a part of every human society until relatively recently.
Exception granted to few so primitive they'd simply eat captive enemies rather than put them to work.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Again, I'm not sure what you're not agreeing with.
- Descriptor "thug culture"?
- Assumption that if one is subjected to thug culture from birth, he is likely to grow up as thug himself?
- That they made the case public?

Didn't you read the articles I posted on this topic? After all, you asked essentially the very same question in that thread, even after I provided seven more articles which were quite specific in this regard.

Here's part of an article which I even bolded so nobody would miss it:

The ACLU of Nebraska said the union’s use of “racially charged language” was “very disconcerting.”

“Officers should be working to build a culture where anyone feels comfortable calling law enforcement,” ACLU of Nebraska Executive Director Becki Brenner said in a statement. “The manner in which the Officers Association has discussed this incident has done nothing but further erode community trust and reinforce the need for independent oversight, trainings, and other reforms.”

Even the Ohama Police chief strenuously disagrees with their statements:

But Omaha Police Chief Todd Schmaderer tried to distance his agency from the controversy, saying he has no control over the website and Facebook page of the union.

“With that background and understanding, I want to make it explicit and clear that the views expressed on the OPOA Facebook page do not necessarily reflect the official stance of the Omaha Police Department,” Schmaderer said. “I strongly disagree with any postings that may cause a divide in our community or an obstacle to police community relations.”

Are you actually in favor of these acts of the Ohama police association in this matter?

 

[Traitorfish]

I think Americans tend to take their own national experience with slavery and oppression of minorities, which was of course very racial, and extrapolate it to the whole world, thus giving race and racism an importance it simply did not have, historically, for much else of the world.

"not much else of the world"

edit: dammit, my link didn't show. well, it was supposed to be this.

 

[Hygro]

The strongest articulated Greek justification for slavery was by Aristotle who stated that slavery was just because the Greeks were a superior people, as proven by their ability to conquer. He might have been facetious but 2500 years of history read him as genuine.

Luiz, even if your base premise of requiring superiority is, an appeal to racial superiority doesn't have to be biological. It can be cultural or even interpersonally justified, so long as it regulates such a system.

 

[attackfighter]

The strongest articulated Greek justification for slavery was by Aristotle who stated that slavery was just because the Greeks were a superior people, as proven by their ability to conquer. He might have been facetious but 2500 years of history read him as genuine.

So basically might is right.

Aristotle said 2,500 years ago the same thing that I am saying today.

That things happen according to cause and effect. That all the moral grand standing in the world means squat. Moralists need to get real.

 

[Farm Boy]

Ah, an egoist. It's been a while!

 

[luiz]

The strongest articulated Greek justification for slavery was by Aristotle who stated that slavery was just because the Greeks were a superior people, as proven by their ability to conquer. He might have been facetious but 2500 years of history read him as genuine.

Luiz, even if your base premise of requiring superiority is, an appeal to racial superiority doesn't have to be biological. It can be cultural or even interpersonally justified, so long as it regulates such a system.

But the overwhelming majority of slaves in Greece were, in fact, Greek!

And I don't agree that racism can be anything but biological. If the belief is that people X are barbaric and as such "deserve" to be conquered / enslaved / whatever, but are capable of becoming civilized and thus equal to the dominating people, I'd call that a non racist form of bigotry.

 

[warpus]

Human 'races' are not biological in nature - so racism can't be biological in nature either.

 

[Arachnofiend]

But the overwhelming majority of slaves in Greece were, in fact, Greek!

White slaves existed in America. They were called indentured servants, or just Irishmen during the Industrial Revolution.

An indentured servant could improve his lot though. You can't fix black.

 

[luiz]

Human 'races' are not biological in nature - so racism can't be biological in nature either.

Of course it can. It's based on bad biology, but that's still where it's based.

What you're saying is like arguing that no gods exist, so religions can't be based on them. Well, to religious people they exist, just as to racists biological differences are quite real!