The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[Timsup2nothin]

I find it difficult to judge what would be the best strategy in terms of survival.
(although I am inclined to think action is better than hiding/sitting duck)

But that is not all that goes in the equation.

What the kids at school feel about such a drill is also important.
(after all the chance they encounter it is practically zero, but with all the news all the time I can imagine they are frightened for it)

Did your son felt it as positive to have at least an active group response to it ?

This is a very good take.

Since the odds of ever having to "go real" on such a situation are basically nil, the only thing that really matters is how the kids feel as a result of the drill. I suspect that overall the benefits are much higher in teaching them that there is something positive to be done than in teaching them how to be more effective at hiding. Obviously, if there were a way to make the point that even thinking about this is basically absurd that would be best, but paranoia can't be rooted out that easily when there is a constant barrage from the barrel strokers.

 

[Synobun]

The drill seems to assume that the shooter is already in the classroom. With that in mind, "teach the kids they should hide instead" is a moot point. The drill is about what you should do if hiding doesn't work... and in that instance, swarming the shooter is by far your best chance at survival than simply sitting quietly.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

There's an obvious joke here about bringing a crayon to a gunfight...

 

[Farm Boy]

He doesn't understand. He remembers the be quiet and hide part, it jives the most with the tornado drills. From what I gather once hiding and the locked door are spent, movement and distraction of any kind are the goal. Everything that forces split attention like tracking or a thrown object has the potential to slow a gunman down. They hide first.

Seems to be the prevailing logic in trainings and drills. Makes sense to me. Groundhogs that freeze get picked off faster and require less follow up shots than ones that run, and they're a much smaller target.

 

[Commodore]

If they really, really, want to reopen that question, they need to think about the difference in populations, and firepower, available now.

Or the federal government could, you know, allow peaceful secession? Why must any attempt to leave the Union be met with violence from the feds?

The longer this stuff goes on, the more I'm starting to agree with Tim that perhaps the people of the US have become too different in terms of ideology to peaceably coexist as a single nation and the country should probably be broken up into at least four or five separate nations.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Or the federal government could, you know, allow peaceful secession? Why must any attempt to leave the Union be met with violence from the feds?

The longer this stuff goes on, the more I'm starting to agree with Tim that perhaps the people of the US have become too different in terms of ideology to peaceably coexist as a single nation and the country should probably be broken up into at least four or five separate nations.

Where is the USian version of Gorbachov when we need him?

 

[Commodore]

Where is the USian version of Gorbachov when we need him?

Maybe coming next if we assume that Trump is our Brezhnev.

 

[Zkribbler]

The longer this stuff goes on, the more I'm starting to agree with Tim that perhaps the people of the US have become too different in terms of ideology to peaceably coexist as a single nation and the country should probably be broken up into at least four or five separate nations.

With liberals concentrated in the cities and conservatives dominating the countryside, you're proposing a really weird-looking map.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

With liberals concentrated in the cities and conservatives dominating the countryside, you're proposing a really weird-looking map.

I don't think you have to break it along city limits or county lines...state lines should suffice.

 

[Commodore]

I don't think you have to break it along city limits or county lines...state lines should suffice.

I think the game Shattered Union divided up the US quite nicely:

The only major change I would really make would be to hand Arizona over to the Republic of Texas rather than making them part of California.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Maybe coming next if we assume that Trump is our Brezhnev.

Trump is waaaaaay too incompetent to be a Brezhnev. I picture him more as Khrushchev. Throwing a tantrum and beating his shoe on his desk seems likely any day now.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I think the game Shattered Union divided up the US quite nicely:

The only major change I would really make would be to hand Arizona over to the Republic of Texas rather than making them part of California.

Disney would never allow this.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I think the game Shattered Union divided up the US quite nicely:

The only major change I would really make would be to hand Arizona over to the Republic of Texas rather than making them part of California.

That makes no sense at all. If your objective is to produce seven smaller nations that would each be just about as marred by divided ideologies as the current US you could hardly do better. Where is the common thread that binds Kansas to the Pacific northwest? Why is Appalachia thrown in with New England and the mid Atlantic states cut out on their own?

 

[Commodore]

Trump is waaaaaay too incompetent to be a Brezhnev.

I was referring more to the late years of Brezhnev, when the Soviets began the economic and social stagnation/decline that would eventually lead to its dissolution under Gorbachev.

mid Atlantic states cut out on their own?

In the game that was part of the European Union occupation. In reality, I'd see them as likely being part of New England.

If your objective is to produce seven smaller nations that would each be just about as marred by divided ideologies as the current US you could hardly do better.

Okay, how about we eliminate the green altogether and divide it's territory up between California and the Midwest? Cali gets the entire Pacific Northwest and those interior states in the green go to the Midwest.

Where is the common thread that binds Kansas to the Pacific northwest?

Kansas isn't in the green, they are in the yellow.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

In the game that was part of the European Union occupation. In reality, I'd see them as likely being part of New England.

That, or maybe they go with Appalachia. They fit with either one better than those two fit together, that's for sure.

Okay, how about we eliminate the green altogether and divide it's territory up between California and the Midwest? Cali gets the entire Pacific Northwest and those interior states in the green go to the Midwest.

That makes more sense.

Kansas isn't in the green, they are in the yellow.

My bad. But Idaho and Montana are basically Kansas with mountains and are just as out of place with Oregon and Washington as Kansas would be.

I think ultimately you get a two way split. California and New York would go together and pull the New England states and Pacific Northwest along. That would leave other states with a choice of either going along with the money or setting themselves up to be the economic engine tasked with pulling along the ISA (Impoverished States of America). I suspect that would pull in the mid-Atlantic states, Florida, and the Great Lakes states. and probably Nevada and Colorado. The rest would probably swear fealty to Texas in hopes that as the only substantial economy run by conservatives that hasn't collapsed yet the Texans would carry them.

 

[Zkribbler]

I think the game Shattered Union divided up the US quite nicely:

The word you're looking for is "arbitrarily."

If you go north of Sacramento or east of the Cascades, you're in Alabama.
Atlanta is more like L.A. than Dixie.
The southern tip of Florida is inhabited by retired New Yorkers.

 

[Zkribbler]

... the only substantial economy run by conservatives that hasn't collapsed yet the Texans would carry them.

Thanks to wind farms built by Obamanomics.

 

[Commodore]

If you go north of Sacramento or east of the Cascades, you're in Alabama.
Atlanta is more like L.A. than Dixie.
The southern tip of Florida is inhabited by retired New Yorkers.

Well there is something to be said for geographical continuity. I mean, wecan't divide the US on just ideological or economic lines alone. That's also why it would make sense for some kind of "grace period" during the dissolution where government sponsored relocation programs could be made available for those who want to live somewhere more ideologically, economically, or socially closer to what they want.

Assuming the breakup is peaceful, I would certainly like to see the new nations maintain a strong economic relationship. Something similar to the Eurozone. Keep the common currency and still allow citizens of the former US to travel freely among the successor states.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well there is something to be said for geographical continuity. I mean, wecan't divide the US on just ideological or economic lines alone. That's also why it would make sense for some kind of "grace period" during the dissolution where government sponsored relocation programs could be made available for those who want to live somewhere more ideologically, economically, or socially closer to what they want.

Assuming the breakup is peaceful, I would certainly like to see the new nations maintain a strong economic relationship. Something similar to the Eurozone. Keep the common currency and still allow citizens of the former US to travel freely among the successor states.

I'd be for it, but not a chance. The ISA isn't going to just let all their productive citizens leave.

 

[Yeekim]

Trump is waaaaaay too incompetent to be a Brezhnev. I picture him more as Khrushchev. Throwing a tantrum and beating his shoe on his desk seems likely any day now.

You didn't just favorably compare Brezhnev to Khrushchev in terms of general competence??