The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[Cloud_Strife]

We can't even trust our own trained police to properly uphold the law without infringing on people's rights, why the **** would we want a bunch of people, who most likely lean conservative with regressive views on PoC and Immigrants, have any sort of power?

 

[El_Machinae]

As Virginia Democrats plan to enact laws that would allow for the seizure of legally obtained firearms from citizens, some sheriffs have found a novel way to protect their citizens from such laws. The law proposed makes exceptions for current or retired law enforcement officers. So what some Virginia sheriffs are planning is to immediately deputize everyone that is legally allowed to own a firearm in their jurisdictions upon the potential passage of any such laws. Deputizing citizens effectively makes them law enforcement officers, thus making then exempt from any gun bans that may be put in place.

You know, for all the talk of conservatives being stupid, we sure do always seem smart enough to find ways to frustrate any attempts by Democrats to actually do anything they want to do.

I thought it was a clever effort to protect their rights, and that's cute. But then I pondered the implications ...

So .... essentially making a government list of everyone who wants to own a firearm, and then holding them accountable to a higher standard? Deputizing them will then put them under some type of taxpayer funded insurance liability coverage for their firearms accidents, as well, no?

Well, I've long advocated that firearm owners should have liability insurance. Not sure how I feel about the taxpayer being forced to fund it. That said, owning a firearm IS a protected right in the USA, so it can make sense to provide taxpayer dollars subsidizing that right.

It's voluntary registration, just disguised as rebellion*. I dunno, it's like people claiming a charity donation in order "stick it to the taxman". I mean, I guess. But the end result is very similar.

*Don't get me wrong, it's a rebellion against an infringement, I get that. Still strikes me that Admiral Ackbar would be screaming about the solution proposed.

 

[Farm Boy]

Yeah, open non compliance is smarter. Though, the sheriffs could decide to have abysmal record keeping I suppose. Then it'd be back to the state to incarcerating elected officials.

 

[El_Machinae]

An elected official deliberately obfuscating records should be a jailable offense. I can see why noncompliance might be a preferred solution to hte overreach. That said, I initially thought that this mini-rebellion was clever, until I just realized what it entailed.

The sheriffs would be acting legally, up until they destroyed records or deliberately did a poor job. I mean, see what I wrote about liability insurance ... these deputies are going to have taxpayer backing of their mistakes, and a sheriffs who damages that protection not only harms the county but also violates the rights of anyone who suffered from those mistakes.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

If retired law enforcement officers are also exempt, then why not just deputise them and then immediately undeputise them?

 

[Farm Boy]

The secret to not destroying records and avoiding producing them is to incompetently collect them in the first place. It's an elected post, forcing the state to incarcerate for incompetency would be a major victory.

 

[El_Machinae]

That surely removes the need for ongoing liability insurance (a loss, in my mind). But still a government list, obviously. It's just people voluntarily doing it.

But if you were a judge in a criminal (or civil) trial, wouldn't you still hold a former law enforcement official to a higher standard than you would a muggle?

 

[Farm Boy]

They aren't magic.

 

[El_Machinae]

But it strikes me as a reasonable solution. Red states have long been convinced that the taxpayer's bureaucrats are naturally incompetent. So, deliberate incompetence in order to further hamstring the state is right up their alley.

 

[Farm Boy]

It's hard to imagine the person who wouldn't find it, depending on the situation, downright patriotic.

Beats the precedent jailing them would have. Think of what authoritarian minded conservatives could do with that one.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

But it strikes me as a reasonable solution. Red states have long been convinced that the taxpayer's bureaucrats are naturally incompetent. So, deliberate incompetence in order to further hamstring the state is right up their alley.

Nevermind that red states are a literal drain on the country's resources and are an embarrassment to us all

 

[El_Machinae]

...

Wow

Um, I recommend you expand your thinking, and actively understand that your bias is incorrect. Unless you're dealing with a misconception of money, it's just not true.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

...

Wow

Um, I recommend you expand your thinking, and actively understand that your bias is incorrect. Unless you're dealing with a misconception of money, it's just not true.

The truth that Republican run-states are economically and socially inferior in terms of life expectancy and quality as a result of the ideology that runs them is uncomfortable to accept, I understand that El_Mac, I really do, but it is the truth and i am tired of being politically correct

 

[El_Machinae]

No you're not. You basically make zero effort to be politically palatable. It's your role, and I appreciate it. But part of that role is to not be wrong.

Your words were that they were a 'drain on the rest of us'.
I wouldn't have argued against the claim that they hurt themselves.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

No you're not. You basically make zero effort to be politically palatable.

Your words were that they were a 'drain on the rest of us'.

A few threads ago, you claimed to 'be empathic'. I'm hoping that you experience dissonance eventually.

I LIVE in one of these red states surrounded by people hostile to my existence and dismissive of my experiences.

Don't talk to me about being having to be "politically palatable" when the topic of whether or not i should be able to exist, without being persecuted socially or institutionally, is a very real, unanswered question in these states.

My sympathy and empathy for these people disappears when they materially, physically and socially harm me, you might not have to live with the face-to-face consequences of that but i do and i dispair being constantly told that they're some marginalized group that have been "left behind", some of us never got a foothold on the ladder to begin with.

 

[amadeus]

The truth that Republican run-states are economically and socially inferior in terms of life expectancy and quality ...

That's a very poor generalization that ignores 200+ years of American history.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I wouldn't have argued against the claim that they hurt themselves.

They hurt EVERYONE by voting in and enabling the GOP.

How many people have been hurt by this administration alone? The damage has been done and red states helped with that.

 

[El_Machinae]

Don't talk to me about being having to be "politically palatable" when the topic of whether or not i should be able to exist, without being persecuted socially or institutionally, is a very real, unanswered question in these states.

My sympathy and empathy for these people disappears when they materially, physically and socially harm me, you might not have to live with the face-to-face consequences of that but i do and i dispair being constantly told that they're some marginalized group that have been "left behind", some of us never got a foothold on the ladder to begin with.

I didn't say you needed to be politically palatable. I said that you cannot be incorrect.

Empathy and sympathy are not the same thing, so we might be dealing with a lexical issue. But yeah, I know you're not empathic. You're the one who claimed to be.
You don't have to give me reasons why you're not.

You called them a drain on the country's resources. That's what I contested.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Empathy and sympathy are not the same thing, so we might be dealing with a lexical issue. But yeah, I know you're not empathic. You're the one who claimed to be.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to forgive people who not only dislike you, but are very much insistant that YOU are the cause of deeper societal problems? Or when they blame you for getting beat by bigots or discriminated against? Or when they elect people who view you in the same light as child rapists and murderers?

It's all well and good you chasitizing me for my supposed lack of "empathy" but goddamn it man i tried when i was younger to give these people the benefit of the doubt and they've only gone and doubled down, for my own safety and sanity i can't keep doing that.

Maybe when their boot falls on you and your face you might begin to understand my dislike of these people and why the constant obsession the media has with implying they are the "real americans" and those "left behind" is so aggravating when they keep electing the same people who are ****ing them over. That they care more about guns then their own well-being is emblematic of this fact

 

[Manfred Belheim]

By "these people" you mean... everyone?