The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

Naturally for the purposes of these discussions we have to pretend more or less that nukes don't exist. In reality I'm sure the US would nuke the ever-loving crap out of any country attempting to take advantage of a domestic rebellion by military intervention.
 
An interesting developmemt here from individual Americans shooting each other to the US as a whole at war with other countries.

Does anyone else notice a pattern of behaviour here ?
 
I think the Greek started it.
 
An interesting developmemt here from individual Americans shooting each other to the US as a whole at war with other countries.

Does anyone else notice a pattern of behaviour here ?

These are completely fanciful scenarios that were made up by other posters
 
:yup:


Spoiler :
:nope:



Spoiler :

:yup:
 
Oh good, someone who can answer a question I've had for a while. Can you share what you've seen as the average department's minimum training standards and qualifications (not SWAT, just Joe or Jane Officer), and also that for the worst departments?

So, before we go down this road I will quantify I fully agree that most states need to increase training requirements, that being said.

All states have minimum academy standard to get your badge which ranges from 6-18 weeks depending on the state. (Note this is similar to basic entry of enlisted military).
All states have some degree of annually or bi-annual firearm safety and proficiency standards. Most departments I have seen far exceed this to avoid liability risk.
As for de-escalation training requirements, this falls almost entirely along political party lines, blue states typically have a requirement while red states do not.

Solely for anecdotal evidence, we did 4 hours a month on various discussion topics ranging from bais to mental health needs with a range day once a month (essentially 8 hours).

The over under of my thoughts on this are to strongly restrict firearms as well as drastically increase law enforcement training requirements across the board. These two actions in unison would drastically cut down on the homicide/suicide rates.
 
Prior to 1900 in the US local gun control was a common rule especially west of the Mississippi where guns were most common. Local guns had to be registered with the local sheriff and new comers to towns had to check their guns while there. The shoot out at the OK corral was all about the Earp Brothers disarming the Cowboys.

Wiki said:
The gunfight was the result of a long-simmering feud. Cowboys Billy Claiborne, brothers Ike and Billy Clanton, and brothers Tom and Frank McLaury were on one side. On the other side were Deputy U.S. Marshal and Town Marshal Virgil Earp, his two brothers and Special Policemen Morgan and Wyatt Earp, and temporary policeman Doc Holliday. Billy Clanton and both McLaury brothers were killed. Ike Clanton, Billy Claiborne, and Wes Fuller ran from the fight. Virgil, Morgan, and Holliday were wounded, but Wyatt was unharmed. Wyatt is often erroneously regarded as the central figure in the shootout, although his brother Virgil was Tombstone's Town Marshal and Deputy U.S. Marshal that day and had far more experience as a sheriff, constable, marshal, and soldier in combat. Virgil made the decision to enforce a city ordinance prohibiting carrying weapons in town and to disarm the Cowboys. Wyatt was only a temporary assistant marshal to his brother.

For all those originalists out there, gun control is nothing new. Safe city life was important to many small towns as a way to promote immigration from the east. As with most things, the gun lovers of America are ignorant of history. Carrying guns in public is a new thing and one promoted through fear by conservatives.
 

US women arrested in Sydney with golden gun in luggage​

A US woman has been arrested in Australia after a 24-carat gold-plated gun was found in her luggage.
The woman, who has not been identified, arrived in Sydney from Los Angeles and did not have a permit for the firearm, the Australian Border Force (ABF) said.
She could face up to 10 years in jail.
Photos released by the ABF showed an airport scan of the woman's luggage, revealing the firearm inside her bag. A second photo showed the handgun after the bag was opened.

In a statement, an ABF official said that sophisticated detection technology had helped stop a dangerous weapon from entering the country.
"Time and time again, we have seen just how good ABF officers are at targeting and stopping illegal, and highly dangerous, goods from crossing Australia's border," ABF Commander Justin Bathurst said.

Officials said the 28-year-old woman was charged and appeared before the Downing Centre Local Court on Monday, where she received bail.
She could also face the cancellation of her visa and removal from Australia, pending the outcome of the court proceedings.
Airline passengers on domestic flights in the US can travel with firearms in a checked bag when they are unloaded and locked in a hard-sided case. Travellers must also tell airline representatives that they intend to travel with the weapon during check-in.
But in 2022, record number of firearms was confiscated from US airport passengers. A total of 6,301 guns were taken at checkpoints as of mid-December, the transportation Security Administration (TSA) said.
By contrast, Australia has some of the most comprehensive firearm laws in the world. They were enacted after 35 people were killed in 1996 by a gunman in Tasmania.
In the wake of the attack, all automatic and semi-automatic weapons were outlawed, and some 600,000 weapons were surrendered as part of a mandatory government buyback scheme.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-65389727
 
Carrying guns in public is a new thing and one promoted through fear by conservatives to instill fear in those they want in their place.

FTFY ;)
 
Wyatt is often erroneously regarded as the central figure in the shootout, although his brother Virgil was Tombstone's Town Marshal and Deputy U.S. Marshal that day and had far more experience as a sheriff, constable, marshal, and soldier in combat. Virgil made the decision to enforce a city ordinance prohibiting carrying weapons in town and to disarm the Cowboys. Wyatt was only a temporary assistant marshal to his brother.
FWIW, the movie Tombstone, (which is a national treasure BTW), starring Kurt Russell as Wyatt Earp, depicts the shootout, in exactly this way... In the movie, Virgil is the newly appointed lawman of the town and made the decision to enforce the gun-control ordinance, with Wyatt reluctantly deciding to be temporarily deputized, in order to help, after arguing with Virgi about it.
Wiki said:
The gunfight was the result of a long-simmering feud. Cowboys Billy Claiborne, brothers Ike and Billy Clanton, and brothers Tom and Frank McLaury were on one side. On the other side were Deputy U.S. Marshal and Town Marshal Virgil Earp, his two brothers and Special Policemen Morgan and Wyatt Earp, and temporary policeman Doc Holliday. Billy Clanton and both McLaury brothers were killed. Ike Clanton, Billy Claiborne, and Wes Fuller ran from the fight. Virgil, Morgan, and Holliday were wounded, but Wyatt was unharmed.
The movie got this part right as well, except IIRC Doc Holliday, (who was played masterfully, in show-stealing fashion, by Val Kilmer) was not wounded in the scene... the character was simply too much of an invincible drunken badass to credibly get shot by anybody... although Wyatt Earp tells Virgil to "Give Doc the shotgun", in favor of Doc's ornate twin 6-shooters, for some reason... having to do with someone being "less likely to get antsy"... I forget exactly what his point/goal was...
 
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US women arrested in Sydney with golden gun in luggage​

A US woman has been arrested in Australia after a 24-carat gold-plated gun was found in her luggage.
The woman, who has not been identified, arrived in Sydney from Los Angeles and did not have a permit for the firearm, the Australian Border Force (ABF) said.
She could face up to 10 years in jail.
Photos released by the ABF showed an airport scan of the woman's luggage, revealing the firearm inside her bag. A second photo showed the handgun after the bag was opened.

In a statement, an ABF official said that sophisticated detection technology had helped stop a dangerous weapon from entering the country.
"Time and time again, we have seen just how good ABF officers are at targeting and stopping illegal, and highly dangerous, goods from crossing Australia's border," ABF Commander Justin Bathurst said.

Officials said the 28-year-old woman was charged and appeared before the Downing Centre Local Court on Monday, where she received bail.
She could also face the cancellation of her visa and removal from Australia, pending the outcome of the court proceedings.
Airline passengers on domestic flights in the US can travel with firearms in a checked bag when they are unloaded and locked in a hard-sided case. Travellers must also tell airline representatives that they intend to travel with the weapon during check-in.
But in 2022, record number of firearms was confiscated from US airport passengers. A total of 6,301 guns were taken at checkpoints as of mid-December, the transportation Security Administration (TSA) said.
By contrast, Australia has some of the most comprehensive firearm laws in the world. They were enacted after 35 people were killed in 1996 by a gunman in Tasmania.
In the wake of the attack, all automatic and semi-automatic weapons were outlawed, and some 600,000 weapons were surrendered as part of a mandatory government buyback scheme.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-65389727

Why was a James Bond villain trying to sneak into Sydney, anyway?
 

Mark Bryant counts US shootings. He no longer remembers the names​

Mark Bryant counts shootings for a living.
It's an around-the-clock job in the US - where more than two people died from guns every hour last year.
He's been doing it for nearly a decade, serving as the executive director of the Gun Violence Archive, a tiny non-profit that attempts to track every incident of US gun violence in real time.
For Mr Bryant, years of counting the dead have come at a cost.

"When we first started this, I would see a child killed and I could remember her name. I could remember the age, what city she was in and the circumstances of that shooting. Now, I cannot do that," Mr Bryant says.
"It just doesn't stick anymore."

Mr Bryant spoke with BBC News earlier this month, the day after five people were killed in a mass shooting at a Kentucky bank, and two weeks after six people were killed in a mass shooting at a Tennessee elementary school.
During the interview, Mr Bryant's phone beeped with the notification of yet another mass shooting. This one was at a funeral home in Washington DC - 20 minutes after a service had ended for another man shot and killed in March, police later said.
There have been at least 170 mass shootings in the US in 2023 - defined by the Gun Violence Archive as four or more people shot, minus the gunman - in which at least 233 people died, including the shooters themselves.
It's a sign of how many such incidents there are in the US that this figure will likely already be out of date by the time this story is published.
But mass shootings are only a small blip on the radar compared to the everyday horror of the totality of gun violence incidents in the US.
As of 26 April, 13,386 people died in gun violence incidents this year. This includes the 20-year-old woman who was shot after entering the wrong driveway. Thousands more have been injured, like the 16-year-old boy who was shot after knocking on the wrong door.

Mr Bryant, a self-described data nerd, started the Gun Violence Archive in 2013, having spotted a "big gap" in the availability and accuracy of up-to-date statistics. He sought to do something about it.
"When we got this thing started we thought this was going to just be five years, but we just kept growing and kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger," Mr Bryant says.
So did American gun violence.

Between 2016 and 2021, the number of deaths from gun violence increased by 6,000, or almost 40%; the number of teens killed or injured by guns was up 47%; the number of children killed or injured by guns, was up 60%.
Tracking these gruesome statistics has taken a toll on Mr Bryant, who says he sleeps about six hours a night, going to bed at 05:00 and waking up at 11:00.
"I've gained weight since I've started doing this job… I'm not taking as good care of myself as I should," he says.

"My wife came in the other day and literally I was asleep[at the computer]. I had my hand on the mouse and the other hand on the keyboard."
Mr Bryant keeps watch over the grim toll of US gun violence from his home in Kentucky. The organisation's other 24 contracted employees also work remotely and are spread across the country.
To provide what effectively amounts to a 24-hour ticker of gun violence data, Mr Bryant said he and his team go through 3,000 to 4,000 sources daily: law enforcement websites, local news, social media and blogs.
"It's not hard physically, it's hard mentally," he says. "I've gotten callous. Nothing surprises me anymore."
"If I got a beep right now that said there's a mass shooting with 42 people shot, I'd be like, OK, there's the rest of my day."
For some of his staff, however, it's not that easy.
"We've had other employees, other folks, one too many babies got killed and they just could not handle it anymore," Mr Bryant says. "I'm constantly hunting for new people."

One might think that being so acutely aware of the harm caused by guns - the number one cause of death for teens and children in the US - would make Mr Bryant anti-gun. It does not.
He fired his first gun when he was five years old; he learned to shoot from the dads of eastern Kentucky who would gather after church on Sundays and take aim at the rats running along the garbage dump.
"I own handguns, target pistols, revolvers," he says, most of them inherited.
"An uncle would die, and his wife would go 'here, take this'… so I ended up with this weird collection."
"I'm not against guns," Mr Bryant says. "Somebody has made the assumption that I'm doing this project that I must be against guns but lo and behold, I own guns."
"One thing I don't do, I don't have rifles. I don't hunt," he says. "I don't have an interest in an AR-15. I don't have an interest in assault weapons."
The more the American gun violence epidemic has grown, the more demand there has been for clearly sourced, reliable statistics.
And Mr Bryant's work shows no sign of slowing.
"I don't understand what makes people that way," Mr Bryant says. "There's a lot of anger and hate."

The archive began as a project for the website Slate and formally launched with financial help from a businessman with an interest in enhancing transparency.
It has become a go-to source for BBC News and most major US media outlets, lawmakers and even the Supreme Court - those looking to make sense of American gun violence.
Although the FBI and Centers for Disease Control both collect similar data, their information generally isn't released until months - or years - after the fact. Comparatively, Mr Bryant said the archive adds most shootings to its website within roughly 72 hours.
"There's a level of irresponsibility in guns that needs to be solved so people don't die," he says. "I want to stop the violence."
The very act of assembling statistics on a fraught, politically and emotionally divisive topic like gun violence, however, has brought pressure and scrutiny.
"I sometimes tick off people on the gun violence prevention side and I certainly sometimes tick off people on the gun rights side, but my best day was when I published a piece of information and both of them were angry with me," he says.
"That told me I was doing my job correctly."
"We are statistics only. We literally just plot along numbers," Mr Bryant says. "Just keep on counting. That's what we do - just keep on counting."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65305145
 
"assault weapon", lol
"leading cause for teens and children", lol
treating suicides the same as murders, lol
not differentiating between mass shooters vs random people at a venue vs a clear motive for who was targeted specifically, lol

not off to a good start for "clearly sourced, reliable statistics". "assault weapon" seems to mean whatever people feel like.

recently two people were convicted for the act of selling pieces of metal with pictures drawn on them, under the "legal theory" that they were selling machine guns. that can and should lose on appeal, hard, because small pieces of metal are not, in fact, machine guns. laws that blatantly disregard reality are not valid. it's like charging someone with manslaughter for producing and distributing a digging iron, because that might be used as a tool for assault. unbelievably stupid and unjustifiable. yet somehow they were still convicted on it.
 
"assault weapon", lol
"leading cause for teens and children", lol
treating suicides the same as murders, lol
not differentiating between mass shooters vs random people at a venue vs a clear motive for who was targeted specifically, lol

not off to a good start for "clearly sourced, reliable statistics". "assault weapon" seems to mean whatever people feel like.

recently two people were convicted for the act of selling pieces of metal with pictures drawn on them, under the "legal theory" that they were selling machine guns. that can and should lose on appeal, hard, because small pieces of metal are not, in fact, machine guns. laws that blatantly disregard reality are not valid. it's like charging someone with manslaughter for producing and distributing a digging iron, because that might be used as a tool for assault. unbelievably stupid and unjustifiable. yet somehow they were still convicted on it.

There's something really gross and off putting about this, it's as if the lives of countless people (including children!!!) Pale in comparison to the urge of eternally frustrated weirdo's to own objects that exist for the sole purpose of killing as efficiently as possible
 
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