The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

Other countries are issuing travel advisories to their citizens about visiting the United States.

The Los Angeles Times
, 5 Aug 2019 - "Foreign countries are warning their citizens about U.S. travel after mass shootings"
LA Times said:
[Uruguay's Foreign Ministry] urged Uruguayans traveling there to avoid “theme parks, shopping centers, festivals, religious events, gastronomic fairs and any kind of cultural or sporting events.” U.S. authorities are unable to prevent mass shootings because of “indiscriminate” gun ownership, the statement said.
LA Time said:
The Japanese Consul in Detroit on Sunday published an alert that said Japanese nationals “should be aware of the potential for gunfire incidents everywhere in the United States,” which it described as “a gun society.”
 
It's not PTSD, it's panicking. The only real long-term solution there are series of one-on-one conversations about how to behave when you perceive a threat.

In any instance, It's usually the mob that is the most dangerous to you. We tend to be very bad at deciding how to play out our fear
 
One of the few times in which a one word post is worthy of being said.


‘Murica!
 
It's not PTSD, it's panicking. The only real long-term solution there are series of one-on-one conversations about how to behave when you perceive a threat.

In any instance, It's usually the mob that is the most dangerous to you. We tend to be very bad at deciding how to play out our fear
It's worth saying, I guess, that "exhibiting symptoms of ______" doesn't mean "you have __________." Exaggerated startle response is a symptom of PTSD, but I wasn't trying to say that everyone in the theater literally has PTSD. Rather, I think it highlights the effect of terrorism. When terrorists kill N people, those N people aren't their targets, the rest of us are. And it's working, folks; we're becoming terrified, and other people are becoming terrified of us. If you've ever wondered what terrorists hope to accomplish by their insane acts, this is it.

Group behavior is another thing, and you're right, a panicked crowd is dangerous all by itself, whatever caused it in the first place. People get killed in crowds rushing the doors of shopping centers on the day after Thanksgiving. That's why "yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater" is such a common phrase when we try to find the sensible limits of free speech in an open society.
 
It's a media-driven phenomenon. I obviously am in favor of taking drastic action to curb gun violence in this country but mass shootings remain incredibly rare and you are far more likely to die of a long list of other things.
 
Yeah, one terrorist tries to make his shoes into a bomb and for the next 40 years people have to remove their shoes before getting on a plane.
Who do you think won that exchange.
 
It's worth saying, I guess, that "exhibiting symptoms of ______" doesn't mean "you have __________." Exaggerated startle response is a symptom of PTSD, but I wasn't trying to say that everyone in the theater literally has PTSD. Rather, I think it highlights the effect of terrorism. When terrorists kill N people, those N people aren't their targets, the rest of us are. And it's working, folks; we're becoming terrified, and other people are becoming terrified of us. If you've ever wondered what terrorists hope to accomplish by their insane acts, this is it.

Group behavior is another thing, and you're right, a panicked crowd is dangerous all by itself, whatever caused it in the first place. People get killed in crowds rushing the doors of shopping centers on the day after Thanksgiving. That's why "yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater" is such a common phrase when we try to find the sensible limits of free speech in an open society.

It's a media-driven phenomenon. I obviously am in favor of taking drastic action to curb gun violence in this country but mass shootings remain incredibly rare and you are far more likely to die of a long list of other things.

Yeah, one terrorist tries to make his shoes into a bomb and for the next 40 years people have to remove their shoes before getting on a plane.
Who do you think won that exchange.

I think this all makes the point that these are terrorist attacks and not just criminal acts. Even the apolitical ones. Their purpose is to incite terror.

We can get into whether apolitical attacks are actually apolitical or more likely a psycho-political statement about our society.
 
In 2015, I've done a rather extensive trip in the US, visiting 16 states from Boston, MA to Houston, TX, and that was really interesting to me.

There are plenty of things I really enjoyed about that trip, particularly the different cultures that could easily be felt from one place to another. However, there was one thing I've experienced there which I didn't expect, it is how people are afraid in general, and even more than that, the feeling that fear is an accepted feeling which is even widely promoted in the society.

Here in Europe, fear is considered a lot more negatively. If you let fear guiding you, you're generally judged as a coward. Fear, like any emotions, is something that we communicate to the people we face. As such, people just learn to control their fear, to watch beyond it and to never show it to the people they face.

In numerous occasions in the US, I've felt watched out, as if I wasn't welcomed in certain neighbourhoods. And sometimes, I felt people being scared. The worst was probably in a poor African-American area in Lafayette, Louisiana. It was 7:30 pm and we were just trying to find a place to eat, everything was closed, the only opened fast food only delivered drive-thru service, and the girl doing the service was protected behind heavy steal bars. That was really something awkward.

There is also a weird "I need to protect my family" culture, which is weirdly considered manly whereas it's just paranoid, overprotective and patronising. You don't need to "protect" your family, you need to learn to your kids to not get guided by their fear and to become self-governing. That is the true responsible attitude.

Here is a video about a girl giving her look at the US society after spending 2.5 years in Europe, and I wholeheartedly agree with her. The US is a scared society cultivating paranoia as a way of life.


Link to video.
 
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Like I said. It's a series of individual conversations.
We had seminars on how people think of bioterrorism, and a lot applies to mass shootings.

It's hard to get people to understand statistics. If you're in the target crowd during a mass shooting, depending on the scenario, the major risk to your life is probably cancer.

I sometimes point out how mass crowd behavior often runs things for everyone while trying to explain ways in which a free market can ruin everything. Though my best analogy there is usually bridge swaying incidents
 
I think this all makes the point that these are terrorist attacks and not just criminal acts. Even the apolitical ones. Their purpose is to incite terror.

They inspire terror because of how the media works, regardless of whether that is the intent (and I hasten to add that in a lot of cases I think it is).
 
It's just legalese, but I think that domestically it's called a 'hate crime'. The goal is terror, but it allows us to distinguish. Like burglary vs home invasion. Robbery vs theft. Etc.
 
extreme cases of sleep walking, dementia, delusion, psychedelics.. there are many scenarios in which people experience reality completely different than others do, and there are also many scenarios in which we act kind of instinctively instead of consciously. and in all thoses cases, guns are a liability, moreso than any other dangerous object like knives.

You're really reaching with this post to defend your position. Not your best argument.
 
You're really reaching with this post to defend your position. Not your best argument.

So how about forcing clips for rifles over four rounds only available at a gun range? They are useless except for sporting. So keep them where sporting takes place.

At some point your paranoia, collector obsession, and hobby is not worth the death. That point was Sandy Hook but you all have your collective heads up your asses.
 
In 2015, I've done a rather extensive trip in the US, visiting 16 states from Boston, MA to Houston, TX, and that was really interesting to me.

There are plenty of things I really enjoyed about that trip, particularly the different cultures that could easily be felt from one place to another. However, there was one thing I've experienced there which I didn't expect, it is how people are afraid in general, and even more than that, the feeling that fear is an accepted feeling which is even widely promoted in the society.

Here in Europe, fear is considered a lot more negatively. If you let fear guiding you, you're generally judged as a coward. Fear, like any emotions, is something that we communicate to the people we face. As such, people just learn to control their fear, to watch beyond it and to never show it to the people they face.

In numerous occasions in the US, I've felt watched out, as if I wasn't welcomed in certain neighbourhoods. And sometimes, I felt people being scared. The worst was probably in a poor African-American area in Lafayette, Louisiana. It was 7:30 pm and we were just trying to find a place to eat, everything was closed, the only opened fast food only delivered drive-thru service, and the girl doing the service was protected behind heavy steal bars. That was really something awkward.

There is also a weird "I need to protect my family" culture, which is weirdly considered manly whereas it's just paranoid, overprotective and patronising. You don't need to "protect" your family, you need to learn to your kids to not get guided by their fear and to become self-governing. That is the true responsible attitude.

Here is a video about a girl giving her look at the US society after spending 2.5 years in Europe, and I wholeheartedly agree with her. The US is a scared society cultivating paranoia as a way of life.


Link to video.

The thing that shook about that video. In 54 years I've never carried a weapon, never felt the need to. I've lived in poor areas of large cities during that time. I can't imagine what its like to live in a society where people feel its necessary to carry a weapon.
 
So how about forcing clips for rifles over four rounds only available at a gun range? They are useless except for sporting. So keep them where sporting takes place.

At some point your paranoia, collector obsession, and hobby is not worth the death. That point was Sandy Hook but you all have your collective heads up your asses.
Can't you just print magazines and guns anyway in about 5 years or so?
 
The thing that shook about that video. In 54 years I've never carried a weapon, never felt the need to. I've lived in poor areas of large cities during that time. I can't imagine what its like to live in a society where people feel its necessary to carry a weapon.

I was listening to a right wing show some weekend back about guns. The gun guy was talking about how you should get used to having the weapon on you at all times. Even at breakfast in your own house. I immediately imagined this dad (me say) sitting in his briefs and a white t shirt with a holstered firearm drinking coffee and eating some eggs with his wife and children. If that’s not bloody stupid idk what is.
 
The thing that shook about that video. In 54 years I've never carried a weapon, never felt the need to. I've lived in poor areas of large cities during that time. I can't imagine what its like to live in a society where people feel its necessary to carry a weapon.

Thing is that in any society there will be people who feel it's necessary to carry a weapon. The US panders heavily to the "rights" of our paranoid fringe, but we don't have an exclusive just in having them.
 
Can't you just print magazines and guns anyway in about 5 years or so?

Yes but it would be contraband. 3D printers aren’t an excuse for much of anything yet. Even when it’s easy to do in the future it won’t be common if it’s contraband. I just want the Lanzas of the world not to have easy access to mass murder.
 
Yes but it would be contraband. 3D printers aren’t an excuse for much of anything yet.
Sure, but that moment is here in no time, and once that moment comes, this policy will be woefully insufficient. Although I'm not saying it wouldn't help at all now, just that soon it will not deter anyone truly committed to an act of mass violence.
 
Sure, but that moment is here in no time, and once that moment comes, this policy will be woefully insufficient. Although I'm not saying it wouldn't help at all now, just that soon it will not deter anyone truly committed to an act of mass violence.

Nothing can deter someone who is truly committed to an act of mass violence. That doesn't reduce the merit in making things less convenient for them in whatever ways possible.
 
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