The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[Gorbles]

Social diseases? What are the social ills of our times? Inequality is pretty massive there, isn't it? Isolation, food deserts, class ossification, depression, the things that drive, what Lex put as, what people are looking for guns to fix. I'm adding what suicides are looking to fix, too, to the costs of that, and I'm including the cost of all the years of misery in lives lived, and we're going to have to include all the sub-suicidal(as Kyr put it, it's hard to kill yourself) years of misery we aren't even bothering to record in this conversation because it doesn't "number well."

Inequality (to take one of them) is pretty massive in a wide range of countries, all of whom enjoy far stricter regulations on firearms and suchlike than the US does. It may be technically upstream of people owning guns, but the two aren't intrinsically linked. They aren't anywhere else.

Take depression too. A gun is a force multiplier, either personally or more commonly interpersonally. We should want to help folks through depression. We shouldn't victimise them for it, and we should seek understanding. The problem in "depressed person has twenty guns" isn't just "depression", though. It's also having a twenty guns. They're separate problems. They create emergent behaviour when combined, but one isn't strictly upstream of the other.

And no, the problem of twenty guns doesn't go away if the depressed person is perfectly responsible and uses them expertly (as depression !== malfunction, and you'll never see me degrade mental health that way). The existence of the guns causes other problems, such as incentive to escalate, opportunity for theft, and so on.

Now, maybe your baseline is "if we fix all these kinds of problems with human society, then guns no longer present a viable solution", I can see the logic. But that sure is a big thing to reach for, when we can work towards these things and also do something about the prevalence of guns in the only nation in the world where this seems to be a talking point. It's not one or the other. That's why I talked about caring about all of the things.

 

[Sommerswerd]

2A folks want gun violence to be an everyday event in America. They want shooting people normalized for regular folks. The best way to avert that is , well.... best not be spelled out.

I don't know... I tend to think what many gun rights advocates want, is to be left alone to enjoy their beloved hobby and not be reminded and/or confronted with claims that the continued sanctified status of their beloved hobby is contributing to putting an undue, unacceptable degree of strain on the stability of society, particularly the public perception of that stability.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Korea: has insane brother up on the north threatening to nuke you, slimily snake nation who wants to control you. Big bully nation who wants to bully you- has strongest gun control laws
US: has friendliest neighbors and has no enemies on its border- guns.

 

[Samson]

Korea: has insane brother up on the north threatening to nuke you, slimily snake nation who wants to control you. Big bully nation who wants to bully you- has strongest gun control laws
US: has friendliest neighbors and has no enemies on its border- guns.

I would love to know how the conscript police work there. Is it a good idea? Does it promote community policing?

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I would love to know how the conscript police work there. Is it a good idea? Does it promote community policing?

Polices are... fairly weak. Dosen't carry guns. Mainly because Korea has big truma on police brutality by dictatorship. So most police forces only cary taser at best.

 

[Farm Boy]

I think you have that one backwards... its about the warriors turning the pointy things into farm tools to become farmers... not the other way around, right?

Yep. And wealth without security is a curse, not a blessing. Heck, the NRA has come up, there's that scene in Exodus where Charton Heston's Moses has to have explained to him when beauty isn't a trait you want to have.

 

[EgonSpengler]

One thing I don't get or understand is how or why trigger locks render a gun unusable by its owner. I thought the whole point to trigger locks was that the owner could unlock it, but if it was stolen or picked up by a child or whatever, it couldn't be fired.

EDIT: The reason I bring it up is because trigger locks seem like a sensible, moderate compromise, and the fact that they were challenged by a pro-gun person and then ruled un-Consitutional tells me that pro-gun people don't have the slightest interest in compromising, and that the 2nd Amendment prevents even sensible, moderate compromises, and therefore it should be launched into the Sun with the rest of the radioactive waste. But maybe there's something about these devices or how they work that I don't understand.

There's a case being put to the U.S. Supreme Court - National Association for Gun Rights v City of Naperville, Illinois - challenging a ban on "assault weapons" such as the AR-15 and AK-47, and on high-capacity magazines for all weapons.

The Court hasn't taken it yet. There's a chance it could become part of the Court's "Shadow Docket", although some Justices are growing uncomfortable with how often that's used, including Amy Coney Barrett, who criticized the use of the Shadow Docket in her concurring opinion on another case (concurring means that she agreed with the majority decision, but not with how it was arrived at).

Anyway, if this case reaches the Court, by whatever means, I don't see how they don't overturn the Illinois law, which would, like Dobbs v Jackson's Women's Health, overturn every similar law in every U.S. state.

In 2011, Dick Heller - the same guy whose case against the District of Columbia in 2008 got the District's restrictions on handguns overturned by the Supreme Court - filed a second suit against the District to overturn its ban on assault rifles. That suit was defeated by the Court of Appeals and never reached the Supreme Court. 2 out of 3 judges ruled against the plaintiff in that case. The dissenting judge? Brett Kavanaugh.



EDIT: Some articles.

ABC7 Chicago / Sun-Times Media Wire, 8 May 2023 - "Naperville, state of Illinois urge US Supreme Court not to block assault weapons ban"
Vox, 9 May 2023 - "A new Supreme Court case seeks to legalize assault weapons in all 50 states"

 

[Farm Boy]

I might get to see Naperville lose a 2nd Amendment case? Oh my, oh my.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I might get to see Naperville lose a 2nd Amendment case? Oh my, oh my.

I don't know Naperville. Does it have a rep?

 

[Sommerswerd]

I don't know Naperville. Does it have a rep?

Its a wealthy Chicago-metro city/suburb with a significantly large Asian percentage of residents (about 25%).

 

[Edmund Ironside]

The school district I work in has just banned students bringing backpacks into school. This is after the fourth incident of a student bringing a gun to school this school year. The last two incidents involved elementary school students, with yesterday's involving one bringing a loaded gun to school. What a time to be alive!

 

[Qactus]

The school district I work in has just banned students bringing backpacks into school...

Wait, weren't the backpacks supposed to protect kids from the shooters?

 

[Sommerswerd]

The school district I work in has just banned students bringing backpacks into school. This is after the fourth incident of a student bringing a gun to school this school year. The last two incidents involved elementary school students, with yesterday's involving one bringing a loaded gun to school. What a time to be alive!

I don't know whether installing metal detectors and/or airport-style x-ray scanners, along with alarmed security doors at every entry point is more or less expensive than providing all the kids laptops with tech-support. Some schools already have metal detector systems in place to deter kids from bringing guns to school.

When I was in High school (decades ago) I used to carry at least 40-60lbs of books around in my backpack all day. I basically carried every single textbook and all my school supplies at all times because, among other reasons, my locker was too small and too far away from my classes to be of any practical use. A "no-backpack" rule like this would have been unimaginable and completely unworkable when I was a schoolkid.

However, nowadays, schools can resort to putting everything on computers and/or laptops. So textbooks, writing utensils, paper, notebooks, trapper-keepers, binders, folders, calculators, etc., can all be made obsolete by putting everything on the kids' computers. So they arguably don't "need" backpacks.

 

[Farm Boy]

Its a wealthy Chicago-metro city/suburb with a significantly large Asian percentage of residents (about 25%).

Didn't know the part about Asian heritage. Learn something new everyday! The string quartets are somewhat more culturally expected, now, I guess? Not going to stake that one firm.

I would have just said the reputation isn't generally for losing, but that's true with most of the bougie that have taken up this class sword issue.

 

[Lexicus]

I don't know whether installing metal detectors and/or airport-style x-ray scanners, along with alarmed security doors at every entry point is more or less expensive than providing all the kids laptops with tech-support. Some schools already have metal detector systems in place to deter kids from bringing guns to school.

When I was in High school (decades ago) I used to carry at least 40-60lbs of books around in my backpack all day. I basically carried every single textbook and all my school supplies at all times because, among other reasons, my locker was too small and too far away from my classes to be of any practical use. A "no-backpack" rule like this would have been unimaginable and completely unworkable when I was a schoolkid.

However, nowadays, schools can resort to putting everything on computers and/or laptops. So textbooks, writing utensils, paper, notebooks, trapper-keepers, binders, folders, calculators, etc., can all be made obsolete by putting everything on the kids' computers. So they arguably don't "need" backpacks.

My question to this would be, if they are expected to bring the laptops home with them for homework (which they shouldn't, abolish homework forthwith) then how are they gonna do it without backpacks? Trendy slim laptop carrying sleeves or something?

 

[Farm Boy]

If they're like Chromebooks, does Google sell a product like that for them? Just order them in bulk with the Chromebooks?

 

[Lexicus]

If they're like Chromebooks, does Google sell a product like that for them? Just order them in bulk with the Chromebooks?

But if you wear it slung over the shoulder, it technically becomes a backpack and is in violation of the backpack ban. In this essay i will [1/476]

 

[Farm Boy]

Dress code it up, I guess. The Chromebook is going to be sentient in 20 years or something anyhow... so keepin it old school.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Soon we wont even have kids... we will just be raising sentient laptops...

 

[Sommerswerd]

My question to this would be, if they are expected to bring the laptops home with them for homework

Yes... they are.

(which they shouldn't, abolish homework forthwith)

Some schools are trying this as policy at grades lower than High School and/or Middle School/Junior High... No homework, to allow for "home-based enrichment".

then how are they gonna do it without backpacks? Trendy slim laptop carrying sleeves or something?

Nah, just carry them in their hands... the ladies can carry them in their purses, which are always an exception to the "backpack" rules... obviously...

Remember, the laptops don't belong to the kids, they belong to the state (along with all their data, emails and personal information )... so if they break them, the school just provides another... no carrying sleeves needed.