The ultimate challenge, deity part1

[Dirk1302]

Until 1 AD

Spoiler :

Went AH,fishing mining, BW. As i played it i should have reversed the order researching mining, BW before fishing as i didn't invest much hammers in the boat while teching mining bw and bw some 5 turns earlier could have helped me. Got the health event which i took of course so i had to refrain from whipping fr some turns anyway.

2360 BC: BW teched

2320 BC: the first barbs enter my lands, i'm just whipping my first chariot from settler overflow, timed with getting BW.
But the corn gets pillaged,all a bit sloppy this start of mine but it doesn't matter that much, destroy the archer and rebuild with the 2 workers i've got.
there's a road to the corn already.

After BW i tech pottery, not because i need it right now but it's too early for writing also and i get a discount on this tech by researching pottery first. Writing and sailing for the trade routes are next then hunting since i'll have phants in borders in the the east by then.

2240 BC Memphisb founded near gold 1s of the horse so i can borrow a clam from capital

2080 BC Pottery
1760 BC Mids go.
1640 BC writing
1440 BC sailing
1320 BC Memphis founded in the east a blocking city 2n of the cows there.
1160 BC hunting

Overview of lands 1000 bc:

As you can see there are quite a bit of barb settlements in the north east, also one in the south west. this suits me fine since i can now build chariots instead of settlers, i can't wait too long but these settlements'll delay Zara from settling there. I'm running around there with a settler and a wc, i don't plan to settle right away just post settlers on good spots, settle if these spots are threatened.

Aesthetics is always a reasonable choice for trading at deity, it must be best here since we'll also have marble in the future. i'm halfway done researching it 1000 BC, as expected Darius is the fastest early researcher, he has alpha, he also got math col and currency (!) in the bargain. He'll probably be the main contender for lib.

975 BC: Hinduism and Buddhism spread, Zara ask me to join hinduism and i agree for 2 reasons, peaceful as i think Zara is i'm a bit more scared of him than of Darius who doesn't care too much about religion anyway, also refusing a request like this like this can lead to an immediate "wheooh" apart from the detoriation of relations. I'm spiritual so i can always move out.
The rest of the world doesn't seem to mind this move too much and Zara's pleased with me now.

875 BC: mysticism, delayed aest a bit to get it, i need an obelisk in Memphis to fight the cultural battle there against Zara. Thx Rusten for pointing out the mechanics, i have a much better idea now what my chances are in these sorts of fights and for the moment i can win it here.

850 BC: capture Tartar the southwest barb city 1n of corn there.

775 BC: Heliopolis founded 1n of the marble, i'd have loved to delay this one but darius was coming with a settler.

750 bc aest teched

Trade it some turns later for alpha, math and Iw. I could go lit now to go for GL. I want to have currency asap though, while trade value of this tech isn't that good this tech helps enormously for research with the second route and sell tech/resource possibility. Darius's still the only one who has it. Since i'm keeping the conquered barb cities I have 6 cities already so the second trade route is significant.

On deity currency is even more important than on other levels because you can get huge amounts of gold by selling techs and resources. Even if i lose the GL i think having currency early is worth it.GL is nice on this map but the very food rich cap guarantees a lot of early scientists anyway.

625 BC: GLH goes
575 BC: Taoism founded by Darius of course.
525 BC: Monty declares on Darius, he has to go through Pacal lands for this, probably someone came to him in his dreams saying "It has to be Darius". everything seems to be random with this guy.

450 BC: Get Currency,research is accelerating immediately.

400 BC: research poly
350 BC: academy build, looking back i must have begun running scientists 750 BC, don't know anymore what delayed me but since i had a lib in Thebes 1000 BC already maybe even earlier i might have forgotten,but probably i was especially busy with a settler for the marble, i had to hurry for that spot in the end.

325 BC research lit my tech rate is ok now around 90 bpt.
300 BC Masonry
275 BC priesthood, convert to buddhism
Convert to buddism 275 BC since everyone except Zara is running it including Monty.Monty has declared on Darius 525 AD, what i'm afraid of here is Monty seeing my power rate suddenly agreeing to peace intending to declare on me.I'm not sure the ai works that way but i've seen ais agreeing peace, finding out that they have their next victim already in mind (immediate wheooh).Occasionally that victim has been me. I actually realize writing this down that Monty probably can't reach me through persian lands after the war.At least it won't get Zara annoyed with me (cautious), hope to get him to pleased with some trading soon.

175 BC: Col
125 BC: Monarchy through trade, i also build the GL this turn, NE a few turns later with continued chopping

100 BC: monotheism for some turns of OR.
1 AD:

2 turns from CS and from my next GS, as soon as it's in i'll go pacificm and race to lib, Darius can research edu already so i have to hurry now. I'm pretty much behind the rest too but that'll change after CS is in and my scientists join the ring.

Plan from here:
War is inevitable, i have good land but it isn't nearly enough to out research these ais. I used to go for heavy cannon stacks in earlier games around 1200-1300 AD,i'll probably have to do better than that this game because i'll be greeted by cannons/rifles if i'm as late as that. I hope to strike somewhere around 1000 AD and as i need to have prebuilt a lot of units by that time i won't be teching fast. So i think i just go mil trad/gunpowder and build a cuirassiers/musket/treb stack as big as possible. Since productive workshops also come too late i'll deviate from normal procedures (for me that is) going for farms almost everywhere apart from some FP cottages. As i have expanded a lot until now i basically only have connected resouces atm but the worker count is close to ok now.

I have an alternative for the mil trad route, i could go constitution enabling me to research quickly to some more heavy weight war tech like steel/rifling. i'll need to put on scientists in this case where i really want to whip heavy so this might also be slow.

I hope to be able to wage war on Zara, if sucessful it'll win me the game i think. Otherwise i go through Darius,Pacal and Monty this has a higher chance of success but isn't a sure game winner i feel. First i have to get lib first, else this game'll become seriously difficult.

Overview 1 ad:

Get 32 gpt from resource deals:

 

[Rusten]

1720 BC -> 50 AD

Spoiler :

I end my turn and find Pacal completing the Oracle in the city that I just discovered. Not happy about that—the Oracle has a very high culture value and will double in the early BC years too.

After healing and killing some stray archers Persepolis eventually falls--combat 2 and 3 WCs are great vs. archers. I lost most of the starting battles, but his archers suffered a lot of injuries and died on the second go.

What a great city this is—I was drooling over the flood plains alone. The only downside is that I was hoping for a better food resource, but this will be an excellent commerce city. I will move my palace over here later on and use Thebes for specialists. I immediately see Darius for peace and get knowledge of the alphabet. I’m going to tech aesthetics anyway as I want the GL/NE up as soon as possible seeing as I have marble.

Now that I have alphabet I can finally see what everyone has and I notice Montezuma is lacking writing (only one). I decide to gift it to him (goes to pleased) as he’s not worst enemy of anyone yet. I also trade for IW as that will boost my power. I have also adopted Buddhism for relations with Pacal and Montezuma. Zara founded Judaism but I’m not settling in his face so I went for it anyway. It’s only a matter of time before Bismarck goes Buddhist as well. Furthermore I want to get Pacal to friendly by sharing religion and favourite civic (HR).

Pacal completes another wonder in the city bordering me 975 BC—this time it’s the GLH.

Now that Darius is taken care of I put my units to another important task; capturing barbarian cities.

I left a lot of idle land to the east and this has allowed Zara to grab more than usual. A quick look at the victory conditions shows him having a large amount of the available land.

I decide to initiate some conflict too. While I was feeling quite safe it is a fair price for safety from Montezuma (and pathetic attacks from Darius). He likes me, but you never know. The alphabet didn’t have much trading value at this point anyway. It turned out great as Bismarck declared on Montezuma the next turn.

Pacal completes the AP (Buddhism) 550 BC and wins the seat over me. The only one voting for me was Montezuma—I guess my Aztec games were/are appreciated—he’s my buddy now.

I spawn my first GS 550 BC. I decided to settle him in Thebes but I regret this now. An academy in Persepolis would better overall as I’m going to benefit from bureaucracy there later on even if my slider is really low at this point. I got my hands on monarchy and monotheism 625 BC and revolted to HR and OR.

I meet a work boat of AC 425 BC while scouting Ethiopian territory and he has founded Hinduism (worst enemy of Pacal and vice versa). I start on the HE is Susa 350 BC.

Pacal founds Taoism in Chichen Itza 225 BC. Will the culture ever stop over there?

You can see I’m getting the Parthenon in Persepolis—I chose this location because it’s going to need a lot of culture (the Parthenon has a high cultural value) and because it has some extra forests. I started on a Palace afterwards. I finally succeed at friendly status with Pacal 125 BC and trade for theology as it will speed up paper and I might want it for relations with Zara.

Once paper is in I trade for Zara’s extra stone and start on the UoS in Susa. Unfortunately the city suffered a slave revolt 1 or 2 turns after starting on the wonder.

I’ve been going in and out of CS and 50 AD I’m having another burst.

Having a city like this and the spiritual trait is really powerful--this definitely is a playable map alright. I’m going to use that GS to lightbulb the remainder of education but I’m not sure where to go from there. I could try a deep beeline and grab biology from liberalism to go for a peaceful victory or I could finish liberalism right away, get started on the Taj Mahal and attack some civilization.

The bad news is that Pacal has completed the S. Paya and revolted to FR meaning I’m no longer friendly with him. I’m thinking of dropping Buddhism and join Judaism instead for improved relations with Zara (theocracy should bring him to friendly quickly).

My 3 main choices are to;
- go for Judaism and improve relations with Zara while conquering the west.
- stay in Buddhism and conquer Zara.
- go for FR and a peaceful victory (biology from liberalism should be possible here given Thebes and my tech lead).

Regarding a religious swap; Zara has converted many cities already so I won’t have a hard time getting the bonuses.

Darius, Bismarck and Montezuma are still going at it so I’m perfectly safe from the west—my eyes have been fixed upon Zara this entire set looking for SoDs and being prepared to accept any demand.

 

[Dirk1302]

@Bleys,

Spoiler :

Looked at the save you're doing fine indeed, resembles my peaceful game. You've staked off some more land to the west, i managed to get the deer city in the north east. You'll need currency fast otherwise your research'll cave in.

@Rusten,

Spoiler :

I suggest Fireaxis brings back civ3's sid level as deity seems to be too easy for you, Snaaty can keep you company there. Maybe i'll introduce handicaps for you both on the next installment of this thread .

@Sleepless

Spoiler :

That's a nice block on Zara, you'll be strong after currency.

 

[killercane]

Looks like an interesting game so I thought I would have a go. Up to 1000 BC:

Spoiler :

The starting location looks ok. Settle in place. Build worker->warrior->rax. Improve corn, cow, and then road until we can pasture horses. Settler whipped at size 5 after rax, then WCs and eventually a library.

Research- AH->Mining->BW->Pottery->Writing->Alphabet (via trade w/ 1 turn left, traded for all other previous techs)->Currency (unfinished).

T1- Settle; warrior goes east.
T2-18- exploring, huts give 31 gold and a map.
T19- Steal worker from Zara.
T25- Warrior dies to barb archer; brave worker must go on ahead by himself up the coast .
T30-45- first WCs produced, find a barb city by the pigs. Find Darius, who is much closer than Zara.
T46- WC dies to barb archer on corn at 96% odds
T53- Take barb city by the pigs.
T60?- healed WCs take Persian capital, 6 WC vs. 3 archers.
T68- Take Persian city by floodplains. Persia gives alpha and hunting for peace.
T70- peace with Zara for alphabet as his stack is knocking on the door.

3 turns from academy in the capital or perhaps philosophy bulb.

 

[Dirk1302]

@Killercane,

Spoiler :

Convincing, an early rush really seems to work well on this map .

 

[Rusten]

@Rusten,

Spoiler :

I suggest Fireaxis brings back civ3's sid level as deity seems to be too easy for you, Snaaty can keep you company there. Maybe i'll introduce handicaps for you both on the next installment of this thread .

Spoiler :

Or they could simply nerf War Chariots.

I don't want to take too much credit here-- this rush is a one-time thing. Darius being slow in hooking up copper coupled with being blocked in by Pacal made the rush much more effective than most other rushes would've been. I had some tough luck with combat odds early on, but overall this was a pretty lucky break for me. You always grab any luck/opportunities you get on deity and pursue it to the max, that's nothing special, but this was a little over the top. The starting area is great by itself, but adding Darius' lands to that makes it even better.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

@rusten

Spoiler :

given the map, probably zara will end up with over 30% of the land - so eventually you'll have to take him?

with parth probably you'll keep everything up to the forested tile 2sw of persepolis - but pasagrade when chicken pizza will pop. 4th ring is gonna be a sad city

couldn't you bribe monty on pacal instead of darius? I mean, he has xbows and crap, but good ole' monty... spams good

 

[killercane]

@Killercane,

Spoiler :

Convincing, an early rush really seems to work well on this map .

Spoiler :

Well you play the hand you are dealt. Building special chariots such as Immortals or War Chariots gives on average a 40% discount on settlers, equivalent to the discount the AIs receive. What this means is you expect 2 archers in a city, and you expect to lose 2 units in taking the city (60 hammers, as opposed to 100 hammers for building the new city with a settler). Often, your cost benefit ratio is even better.

Really this game is a follow the breadcrumbs type of game. Starting techs/UU means you really have to go after AH first. Once horses are found basically in your city radius, and multiple neighbors nearby, you really have to follow the trail to Persepolis as opposed to Zara's cultural defenses. Pacal is not only far away but he has a resourceless spear UU.

I notice some people founded Memphis one tile east of mine by horses. This gains you really nothing besides wasting a 2 food tile when a desert hill is available. The only thing you can do with that configuration is help the capital with some cottages but I think you want to move your capital regardless in this game and make Thebes the National Epic city.

 

[Bleys]

Thanks for the encouragement Dirk, I think its difficult for us "lower level" players to accurately assess our own situations on these highest levels. I always feel like I am losing badly, I look at the tech screen, or the size of the AIs cities, or the troop counts they have, and think "wow, I suck, I am getting killed". The reality is that its important to "maintain" until you can get to the point in the game where you can turn the tide. Rustens comments about early Barracks are a perfect example of the different mindset. For me, its "chop out those Barracks, get those Axes and Cats CR I out of the gate", which is probably a stronger play on Monarch and Emperor, but I see now that adding up the hammers from building my Barracks equals a bunch more War Chariots, which would make me "appear" stronger to the AIs, thus perhaps gaining me more of the precious time I need to turn that tide.

Almost done with the NC XI game, Catherine, I played Emp/Epic and felt like I was winning from the get go (of course, there is an explanation for that, heh, its currently a secret only shared by a few of us, LOL, see my

 

[SnowlyWhite]

don't worry...

just don't check too often the tech screen in the bcs - it's usually so depressing

or check, but take it with a grain of salt

 

[Dirk1302]

^ Indeed, i only really watch for them to get Philo,CS,Paper and Edu as they count directly to lib. They're miles ahead usually on the bottom of the tech tree but this doesn't matter because you get most of this in trade later. This is also the case on immortal but not as much as here.

@Bleys, well i haven't got that much experience on deity either, played 3 games from the forum, a ridiculously easy lonely heart start as Darius on a huge island with warmongers on the continents that didn't research faster than emperor, A Monty diplomat start which was winnable by just going peaceful.

I got some confidence really from Flo7's deity pangae challenge, i was able to take down Hammurabi in the renaissance and Han in a modern war, i typically played this game as i would play an immortal game and it proved to me that the same strats that i learned there are still viable on deity only you have to plan them with more precision.

My offline experience hasn't been that successful, got rushed by the Zulu's once who came from the other site of the world finally reaching me 1000 bc, not much i could do because he apparently had it in for me well before 2000 bc really. Lost a lib race to Ghandi who took it 300 a and was unreachable on a big island together with MM whom he vassalized. in another one i got rushed by Toku 500 ad, diplo was unmanagable there because i couldn't set any one on him and couldn't get him to more than cautious, i was doing well in that game though and just should have built some more units. I'm definitely more sloppy playing offline though as you can see from my start here which also started as an offline game.

Advice from Rusten and Snaaty about getting power as high as possible is very valuable as these early rushes on you and needing to regen is one of the most off putting things from playing deity for me. I certainly have to take building some units more serious in these cases where the diplo situation is not stable. I'm still interested in that exact formula as to how the power rating helps, need to delve into the Xml/python code for that maybe.

@Killercane, spoiler to +/- 1 ad.

Spoiler :

You're quite right about playing what you're offered, i don't like playing early rushes that much and as of yet also lack the experience as to if/when a deity ai can be rushed. You Rusten and somewhat later also Snaaty proved convincingly that this was a good tactic here. Going peaceful is certainly doable as can be seen from the other games as the map is very generous but it doesn't lead to such great positions as you've got.

 

[qwertz]

ok, finally got some time to play few turns of this game:
-1500 BC

Spoiler :

-settled in place and started with a worker and AH (I was thinking about going fishing first, but decided against it as the capital has enough food anyway and AH will also reveal horses for WC)

-the warrior went exploring to the east and besides finding two huts (one gives me 42, the other AH just two turns before researching it ) he met ZY, who seems to be quite far away to the SE

-OTOH darius came from the east and he seems to be quite close, there is very nice city spot just 4(5)E from thebes, but I must hurry to get there before darius


after the worker I went with warrior-worker-WC-settler (for the gold spot)

after AH I went for mining-BW in order to get some production and the pottery-writing-fishing-hunting


-I also get a nice event:

It isn't much, but it comes quite handy when you get it that early.



Memphis got founded on the turn 46, but Darius already founded susa few turns earlier;

I really hope I'll get this wheat before Darius does.

...and thanks to the creative trait, I get the boarder pop 5 turns later; and on the same turn as Darius

huh, let's just hope I get to 100 culture before him.


Few turns later Darius even founded confu, but fortunately not in Susa


turn 60 I founded another city in the SE:

quite far away from Thebes, but 2 x ivory, a FP, copper, cow a river and a good blocking site towards ZY.


on the turn 63 I got one more city;

a ex-barbarian city defended by 3 archers, I lost a WC, but also got a worker and a 10xp. WC for the HE.





I met all the AIs until now, so this seems to be a pangea-style map. I don't really like pangeas, but this map looks quite nice so far.


I'm planning to cripple my economy a bit more a get some more cities up
(I already got another settler for the marble-clams city SW of Thebes).
5 cities in 1500 BC is quite a lot, but the gold mine definitely helps and I'm always somehow afraid on deity that if I don't get the cities up ASAP, the AIs will grab the sites before me.

If you have any comments/tips about my game, I'll be glad to hear them as always have the feeling that I'm doing something wrong when playing deity.

 

[Dirk1302]

@qwertz, you posted the initial start.Doesn't matter that much as the actual situation is pretty clear from you're report. Saves get more valuable later anyway as the situation becomes more complicated.

Spoiler :

Good start, you founded the eastern city just like me 2n of cow, there are some people
that founded 3n, getting the copper there but risking losing the cows, see how that works out. I didn't have a chance for the wheat in the west, it's very important for that city so you might research mysticism next for an early obelisk. As for city grabbing, i also prioritized building settlers but i just posted them on good spots to save on maintainance. Began to settle more spots actually after currency.

 

[Rusten]

@rusten

Spoiler :

given the map, probably zara will end up with over 30% of the land - so eventually you'll have to take him?

with parth probably you'll keep everything up to the forested tile 2sw of persepolis - but pasagrade when chicken pizza will pop. 4th ring is gonna be a sad city

couldn't you bribe monty on pacal instead of darius? I mean, he has xbows and crap, but good ole' monty... spams good

Spoiler :

Neh, I shouldn't have any trouble teching faster than Zara with this great land (he has some tundra/desert). If I leave him be I'll probably gobble up the west too adding even more research to my empire. Furthermore he's not financial and he hasn't made any dangerous wonders (UoS, SM, Colossus (AI works a lot of coastal tiles) and the AP). Pacal and I have been/are getting those so I don't think he's a big threat to me. He doesn't have many religions either slowing down any culture attempt.

Pasargadae will be fine--all the important tiles are nowhere near Chichen Itza so I'm getting much more hidden culture than he is. I have monasteries, temples and a library there too.

Regarding bribing; if you're thinking of when I bribed Montezuma into war with Darius it was my only choice. I didn't have enough techs to get Montezuma onto Pacal at the time and they've been going at it ever since meaning no further bribes necessary.

 

[Bleys]

I decided to dive right back into this game (no, I havent finished NC XI or MC III or Mad Scientists All-Sury game or the Hatty LHC yet!), and already I had some interesting things happen, and I have a question.

575 BC - 525 BC, with a question about trading techs:

Spoiler :

I opened the save, and hit enter, and got a message that Zara would trade Maths. Since I hadnt traded him Aesthetics yet, I checked it out, and sure enough, he gave me Maths + 10 gold for Aesthetics. Then, the following turn, this happened!

Zara GIFTED me Alphabet!! Wow, Coolness, so I check the trade screen, and see that Darius will trade Monotheism, so I ask him if he can "Spare" it, and sure enough!

SWEET! I also traded Aesthetics to Augustus for Med and Priest.

This series of events is the basis for my question. Should I be doing this much trading this early? I am usually a pretty big miser with my techs, I trade and sell them later in the game when I am well ahead, and such, but I am wondering if I should even be bothering with techs like Med and Priest. I generally suck at diplomacy, its the weakest part of my game, am I risking much with all this trading and asking for gifts?

 

[silverbullet]

Spoiler :

SWEET! I also traded Aesthetics to Augustus for Med and Priest.

I am no Deity expert, but

Spoiler :

In my books this is something you should NOT do. Are you familiar with WFYABTA?
This map is pangaea like, you know everyone, which means everyone knows that you received these techs via trade. Every AI counts how many techs you receive from other AIs and will stop trading with you once you reach a limit. It means that it is better to trade for expensive techs.

While it may be sometimes ok to trade for organized religion (not expensive, but not dirt cheap), I would definitely not trade Aesthetics for med and priest.
On this map I would avoid both these trades.
BTW, if the real experts think I am wrong, I would love to hear the reasons. Thanks

 

[glnbrm]

Long time lurker here - haven't figured out how to post images but will try later on. Have enjoyed everyone's write-ups and taken a lot of instruction from them. I have always thought that the one indispensible trait on Deity is spiritual, b/c at this level winning the game is as much using the AI against itself as it is managing your own civ.

Spoiler :

I had a go at this and would probably have lost in a space race to Zara (quit @ about 1800AD behind by several components w/Zara needing only stasis) the first time after rushing Darius - Zara had so much good land and a handy blocker mountain to keep Augustus off his back. I thought about going down with a guns blazing nuke/EP strategy against Zara but decided to replay b/c there were some ways to optimize my strategy to weaken Zara.

Anyway, second time around I have strong position @1400 AD or so; basic strategy was following:

1. Rushed Darius and took two good cities - could not take Persepolis, as the extra hammers for the chariots went for eastern bound settlers.

2. Got most of the good city sites from Zara north of the jungle. This kept him from swallowing up the whole eastern continent and building unstoppable momentum. In the first game, Zara had INFANTRY c. 1200 AD. That is hard to deal with.

3. Kept Darius as a buffer from Pacal - several trades to Biz/Monty/Pacal for lesser techs and war with Darius. Buddied up with Zara and used AC as my main tech trade partner - AC is no threat except for cultural, and Pacal took most of his wonders. Biz is a sleeping giant, vassalized Monty after a backstab attack while Monty was pre-occupied with Darius.

4. Liberalism strategy was self research Nationalism, had ridiculous amounts of GS from Thebes after building GL and NE there. Built Taj around 600 AD - traded Nationalism around for tech parity. Took Constitution from Liberalism around 700 AD, started on Democracy, built SOL around 1150 AD w/some chop help. Moved palace to Heliopolis (built in river/ivory site north of Zara's junlge), built Ironworks there w/Bureacracy. Still holding a Great Artist and two GS for two late game Golden Ages while I get my space infrastructure in place.

5. Lots of diplomatic maneuvering. Biz came and took out Persepolis and a couple of junk Persian cities with rifles and cavs around 1200 AD, but culture pressure from me and Pacal have him squeezed into some one tile wonders. Biz and Zara were going at it for a while in my territory, but Zara gave up after getting a 40+ mace/treb/knight/cuirasser stack crushed to the west of Thebes (Zara had taken Darius as a vassal around 300 AD but was unable to hold off Biz). I share Hinduism with Zara and entered into a DP with him around 1300 AD, so I feel fairly secure on my eastern borders.

6. Where to go -

Biz is pleased, but has good military techs and is # 1 in the power rating. Things are not good between he and Pacal and I expect Biz will attack soon - I want to be sure it is Pacal and not me and Zara, since I would bear the brunt of that. I have Biology/Physics on most of others (Biz has Physics) and am researching Electricity. Zara/AC/Biz have Railroad and I have hit WFYABTA w/everyone except Zara and AC (and AC won't trade anything good). Plan is to incite war b/t Pacal and Biz, grab some of Pacal's cities, assess whether I can get an edge on Biz and crush one of his stacks and blunt his ambitions, or otherwise, turn Biz towards AC if possible and away from Zara and me. When Biz gets to Industrialism, taking him on militarily is out of the question w/Panzers, so meta-strategy is to beeline to Internet/Space Elevator and get into space, while making nice with Zara. All EP is turned to Zara, who will probably be my main space competition if I can keep Biz's war machine directed elsewhere. Biz and Zara are both formidable late game foes, but there are worse (Darius, Charles, Peter come to mind for space, or Pacal/Huayna cultural), and I think I can take them on in a space race.

7. Mistakes -

a. I spent a lot of time researching steel after getting democracy, thinking I would quickly cannon rush Darius and then relieve Pacal of a few of his good cities while holding off Zara (Darius' master) in the south w/a rifle pillage/attrition war. Built about ten cannons when Biz took Persepolis w/a stack I didn't notice in time - research would have been better spent to get one of the Communism/Physics bonuses; got beat to both, Zara taking Communism, Biz taking Physics. Maybe silver lining is upgrade those cannons to Artillery and take on Pacal, but that would require deviation from Internet beeline - not sure I can afford that.

b. If I could have taken Persepolis in my initial rush, I would have. I decided against trying and used my chariot forces to take down some barb cites for $ instead. Rusten, it has turned into a great city for you - however, I think I would prefer my position in the east to having Persepolis and the diplomatic issues with Pacal. You may be able to take Zara down in your game with a Cav rush (in which case you would have the far better position as compared to my game), but in my game (and in my experience generally) he is no pushover. If he gets to Rifling and upgrades his Oromos, forget it. I decided against trying it since his good cities are so far south that it would be difficult to hit him hard enough initially, and getting into a prolonged war with him is only to Biz/Pacal's benefit.

c. I spent too long in Merc - wanted to try and slow down the tech pace which is off the charts even for Deity - and am now trying to build a better sceience/production base with Rep/FS/Emanc/Communism/OR to gear up for a space race. I would go to Free Religion, but I want to keep Zara at friendly.

d. Doing things the second time around always leaves a taint b/c of map knowledge, but hey, it was more fun than nuking Zara and dealing with payback nukes (and probably losing anyway if/when he pulled in Biz and Pacal on me).

I'll try to figure out how to post pictures so that I can show summary screens.

 

[Dirk1302]

A few points about tech trading/receiving,

On deity WFYABTA strikes very early so which tech do you trade for and which will you research yourself? It depends on the map and the other ais a lot. Generally I tend to draw the line with techs like IW in the early game if i have a decent economy but sometimes i trade for cheaper techs, especially those that'll help me get GL in time such as poly or even masonry once, i should have planned better though in those cases.I also have traded for sailing once, my economy being in a suspect state in which it cost 8 turns to research, since this tech immediately helped i think that was ok.

After 1 AD i typically trade for techs i need and which cost about the same as Col.
Calender,MC, compass are good examples, if i need it and haven't got it i'd certainly
research something like mono myself.

After lib i often find myself in a position that i haven't got construction yet, i research that myself in 1-2 turns, sometimes research feudalism myself too if i can get it in 2-3 but definitely trade for guilds/engineering even if i can get them in 4 turns since turns are so important at that time.

I have a feeling that while i take WFYBTA into account seriously i might still be a bit too generous.

On this map trade info about the leaders,don't open spoiler if you haven't met everyone.

Spoiler :

Bismarck,Pacal and Monty stop trading after you received 5 techs
Darius and Zara after 10
Augustus after 15

Augustus'll trade with us for a long time, the others'll shut the door on us at some point
unless we get them to friendly. So caution is needed here with trading/receiving techs.

 

[Dirk1302]

Hi glnbrm, good to see you join and welcome to the forums.

Can you put a date above your spoiler as it concerns your whole game? I'll read it once i have finished my own game.Alternatively you can divide your post in blocks as 4000bc-1 ad, 1ad-1000 ad for instance so we can read them earlier.

If you're familiar with photobucket, posting pictures here is very easy.

 

[Bleys]

silverbullet:

Spoiler :

Good tips. Yes, I am familiar with WFYABTA, but being a Monarch-Emp player, I find it rarely comes into play. In fact, I cannot remember the last time I was in WFYABTA when I actually wanted a tech, even on Emperor.

Do gifts and "can you spare this for a friend" requests count toward WFYA? I know that selling techs for straight cash do not count, how about buying them? I fear I may have really messed up my ability to trade later in this game, because I popped a Scientist, bulbed Compass (all my cities are coastal except 1, so I figured I would want the TR from a Harbor) and I traded it around a bit. I got Currency, Monarchy, and Construction for it from 3 different AIs, so that was worth it, I think, but the previous trades like Med and Priest for Aesthetics was not good.

I am also annoyed about my timing. I had 3 forests pre-chopped, and the Marble hooked up when I hit Lit, and the very next turn the GL was BIADL. ARGHHHH!! This might not have happened if I hadnt been so stupid about trading Aesth around, right? Man, Diety is brutally hard. I am not really sure I like it, to be perfectly frank. I am at .3 power with Zara, and .4 with Darius, thank GOODNESS we share a religion! I am about to culture flip one of Darius' cities, but I cant get any culture on Zara, for the reasons that I love to play Zara myself, that stupid Steele, I personally think its a MONSTER UB.

Back to the grind, LOL, I am not sure I am having fun. I dont see myself being able to equalize, despite a very strong start. Most of the AIs already have LBs, and I am nowhere near Trebs or Maces. I doubt I can win the Lib race now that I lost the GL. I am slipping farther and farther back, shame too, because I had a very nice start.