1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

The 'Ultimate' Civics Expander and Balancer Mod

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Mod Components' started by Aussie_Lurker, Aug 1, 2006.

  1. Amazing Game

    Amazing Game Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    41
    @ Aussie_Lurker:

    This civics balancer looks promising...percentages might be a little high- maybe drop them down to 10 %... I will try to use it in one of my games later on in the week hopefully.

    If your interested I have made your civics balancer Phase ONE compatible with WARLORDS. 3 tags were added in each of the 42 civics categories.

    I hope the attached text file is made viewable for anyone who wants to save themselves about 35 minutes it took me to add the tags (finished a long day at work).
     
  2. Amazing Game

    Amazing Game Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    41
    take care all
     

    Attached Files:

  3. dh_epic

    dh_epic Cold War Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Messages:
    4,627
    Location:
    Seasonal Residences
    Hey Aussie, glad to see things are buzzing along. What's next for this mod? Does it all come down to game balance?
     
  4. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    7,746
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Hey there DH_Epic. Well, this is how things currently stand. First up, I will modify the files for phases 1 and 2 to balance things a bit. Mostly Amazing Game's suggestion to tone the 25% bonuses/Penalties down to 10% (don't want civics to be game-makers/breakers do we? ;) ) I will try and have them reposted before the end of today.
    Phase 3 might take a bit longer, though. Adding new XML tags has proven more difficult than I could have anticipated but, with a lot of help from this fantastic community, I am making progress. On the upside, once I figure out HOW to do it, it should be easy to do it over and over again ;).
    In the meantime, however, I am considering throwing some ideas out there for what some of the new civics I am adding will actually DO. Feedback at this stage is an absolute must, so please feel free to tell me if you love 'em or hate 'em. Anyway, you should see them appearing here soon.

    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  5. HourlyDaily

    HourlyDaily Man-o-Mercy

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    507
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Aussie - playtesting with the mod, I found the only issue was the diplomacy modifier brought about by having more civic choices. Small issue.

    I think you have compiled the list and benefits/drawbacks very well. It depends on how you like your game - a decisive decision or "game-breaker" can be a good thing in many respects.
     
  6. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    7,746
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    When I have had the time to do Phase 3, I do plan to look at the interface between Civics and Diplomacy. I want to remove the differences between SIMILAR Civics types. So, for instance, Civs that share Authoritarian civics will not view each other unfavourably, wheras they will view libertarian civs with greater disdain. I also would REALLY like to beef up the diplomacy that results from having differences in religious doctrines. Anyway, thanks for the advice. I hope to have an update soon.

    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  7. Impaler[WrG]

    Impaler[WrG] Civ4:Col UI programmer

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,750
    Location:
    Vallejo, California
    I personaly dont like % bonuses smaller then 20% because round off often robs you of the whole thing (though I heard this was changed in WL?). 25% of something like a Commerce dosn't sound too bad to me so long as the other Civics are in proportion, I like the effect of a Civic to realy effect your game play like they would in SMAC. The negatives in SMAC realy helped a lot in making you FEEL that Civics effects on your empire.
     
  8. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    7,746
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Hi guys. Minor update to my Phase 2 Mod. Check it out by clicking on the link in my sig :).

    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  9. dh_epic

    dh_epic Cold War Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Messages:
    4,627
    Location:
    Seasonal Residences
    There's also a balance OUTSIDE the civics to keep in mind.

    Say I've just researched Nationalism. I have a choice between Military Tradition (with Cavalry), and Constitution (with Representation). If Representation is too powerful, then I'll ALWAYS pick Constitution. If Representation is too weak, then I'll ALWAYS pick Military Tradition.

    The civics themselves not only have to be balanced with each other, but with their contemporary units / wonders / etc.. Not an easy challenge, Aussie, but I would start with the internal balance of the civics, and tweak them for 'external' balances after.
     
  10. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    7,746
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Hi guys,

    Just an announcement to say that I have now adapted phase 2 of my civics balancing mod for Warlords (I could do phase 1 too, if there is sufficient demand for it). This new mod also makes a few changes to techs and buildings which I felt either better represented history or would help to reduce imbalances. Please check post #2 for details of the changes, as well as the mod itself.
    Also, please stay tuned for phase 3 and-YES-even a Phase 4 (eventually). Once I have established that I can get new xml tags to work in-game, progress on Phase 3 should progress fairly quickly, but right now I am still stuck making only very simple changes. Anyway, in the meantime, please download Civics_Balancer_vW from post 2 or from my sig-thank you :).

    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  11. Ket

    Ket Composite Of A Composite

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    900
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Ok thats it!!! I'll have your babies :)

    Lets see how this baby merges!!!!!!
    I'll post .3 of my mod sometime tonight with these changes!
     
  12. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    7,746
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Hey Ket, if you can fix up my mildly 'messed up' tech tree in the process, I might just take you up on that offer ;) :p.
    In the meantime, I just thought I would give you a brief insight into my future plans.
    As I said above, once I have ironed out the bugs in my SDK changes, I should be able to make rapid progress on Phase 3-which will incorporate Ideology, Values/Rights, Organisation, Religious Doctrine and Religion Relations.

    After this is out, I will begin work on Phase 4 of my mod, which will remove Ideology as a Civics Category, and instead add Ideologies as an entirely new concept along the lines of religion-with Ideologies appearing towards the end of the Renaissance. Keep your eyes peeled :)!

    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  13. dh_epic

    dh_epic Cold War Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Messages:
    4,627
    Location:
    Seasonal Residences
    Sounds like the final goal of this mod is the "ultimate politics" mod. Combining enhanced civics with a new model of ideologies would be a huge selling point for a lot of people :)
     
  14. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    7,746
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    That is definitely my 'Vision', DH_Epic. A political system that truly reflects the diversity of modern politics!

    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  15. Ket

    Ket Composite Of A Composite

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    900
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    OOOOO I like that name...
    Ultimate Politics!
     
  16. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    7,746
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Hi guys. Just a few updates.

    As far as phase 3 goes, I am currently waiting on a bug test that TheLopez has kindly offered to do for me. Once that is complete, It should only take me a couple of weeks to finish all the new XML tags (fingers crossed!)
    In the meantime, I have made some small modifications to Phase 2. I have removed Emancipation and replaced it with Conscription. I am close to completing all the remaining balances of the Civics Options (pretty much just adding 'consequences'). I have also almost finished adding Civilopedia texts for all the new civics options. Expect to see something new-ish here in the next day or so.
    One interesting thing I have noticed is that-since moving Meditation back beyond Priesthood-Bhuddism is Founded first in the game a LOT less often. There is also a much bigger gap between Hinduism and Bhuddism.
    I have also noted that the AI makes use of the different civics options. In governments alone, my recent game sees me as a sole Theocracy (Bhuddist) in the midst of 2 Oligarchies and a Despotism. There are also several civs who have adopted Pantheism and Barter already (around 750BC). Definitely makes the game a LOT more interesting IMO.
    Once I have completed this existing update, my next task will be to modify terrain movement costs and impassable terrains. This is the point at which I am REALLY gonna need your input, as I will need to know if my movement restrictions sacrifice too much gameplay enjoyment for the sake of 'realism'. You guys will be the final arbiters on this score.

    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  17. dh_epic

    dh_epic Cold War Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Messages:
    4,627
    Location:
    Seasonal Residences
    Hey Aussie, keep up the great work.

    What are the plans for terrain? Make it generally harder to move? Keep in mind that when you make certain terrains cost 2 movement points, you're really only affecting mounted units. So keep that in mind as far as game balance goes.
     
  18. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    7,746
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Well, my idea is two-fold DH_Epic. First there will be an increase of movement rates for tundra and desert to 2. Next, though, I will also make these two terrains-and jungles-impassable to most pre-macemen foot units. The exception to this will be Scouts, Explorers, Workers and Settlers. I would, however, like to be able to exempt the latter penalty IF the terrain occurs inside a friendly cultural boundry (the way galleys currently work!)
    My hope is that this will lead to a much greater expanse of the 'Old World' remaining unexplored until the mid-Medieval period, as well making Scouts and Explorers more important and hopefully allowing those barbs to become more settled in the unexplored territory ;).

    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  19. Impaler[WrG]

    Impaler[WrG] Civ4:Col UI programmer

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,750
    Location:
    Vallejo, California
    I was resently thinking about negative healing as a means for preventing both scouting and conquest. Its a rather straitforward idea, their are Global Defines for City/Owned/Nutral/Enemy healing rates right off the top I belive their 25/20/15/10 percent respectivly. By changing nutral healing to a negative value units would lose heal in nutral territory and be forced to return to their home turf to heal up before again venturing out (or they could be sent on one way suicide exploration).

    Along the same lines negative healing in enemy territory could be considered Attrition Damage making long seiges much harder (probably to the detriment of the AI). With some SDK coding and a new Player level Attrition datamember it would be possible to do attrition much like RiseOfNations had. Protective Leaders could gain an interesting new facet. Any interest is something like this?
     
  20. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    7,746
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Hey, thanks for the info Impaler. Just a quick question though-should this be used im PLACE of what I am suggesting or combined with it? If the latter, then what I was thinking was that I could do my straight XML mod for phase 2, and then try a much more involved approach using the SDK values you mention in Phase 3 (which is already going to contain a number of new SDK changes).
    On another note. Is there a section in UnitInfos that would allow me to partially or fully negate the healing penalties for Scouts and Explorers? Above all I want these units to be VERY important for use in exploration.

    Aussie_Lurker.
     

Share This Page