The Ultimate Deity Challenge -- Survival among Warmongers

[Duckweed]

@Sleepless & PaulisKhan

Spoiler :

I am not sure whether I am right or not on this? -- Avoidance of border contact greatly lowers the chance of being chosen as the target. So I did not have border contact with Monty until I settled my 5th city. As a result. Monty chose to DOW Gilgi instead. And I also did not settle city to the south and avoid conflict with Gilgi.

Another very important thing to survive this game is the leading of the tech race, which will make every thing easier. Your tech speed will only be faster with a small empire than a large empire early on (IMO, this is the case before you won lib race). Especially in this game, with Gold in capital BFC, you should be able to have yourself afloat in tech race before renaissance.

With techs in hand, I tend to be very generous to give out them, even for free, which let me make 3 AIs to please early on.

Ivory is a bonus to make you easier to survive this game. WEs is not only good to take cities, it also lets you be able to attack invasion stacks with cats. I was thinking about attacking Shaka with WEs/cats. I gave up this thought since in my game Shaka turned to friend with the shared war with Monty. If you plan this, you have to take the risk of backstabbing from other AIs. Moreover, the war would not be quick, therefore will probably harm your lib race (which would be pretty safe to get with marble).

 

[BurN]

@Duckweed

Spoiler :

Not sure how Burn managed to get that gold city though.

Spoiler :

I went worker -> 2 or 3 warriors -> settler. But I guess you need luck, I didn't even hope on getting it but by the time my settler was out, Shaka settled the southern cities instead of the gold. What an idiot.

As for my game I played till 1600AD or so and I'm pretty frustrated with it atm. I will make a more informative post when I finish it. For now I just want to vent my frustration.

Spoiler :

I had a nice tech lead post lib, got to riffles before anyone had grens. However I got kinda fked over with my riffle war.

In short what happened:

- I dow Gilg with trebs+riffles vs longbows. I upgraded CR samourai's and drafted some.
- I take 2 cities and guess what.. Gilg is the only AI who went for military science so now I face grens. Fcked. This war becomes much more expensive then it should have been.
- Alex goes from Friendly to Pleased and he goes into WHEOOHRN.
- Alex brings a shitload of MUSKETS on my border.
- I bribe Genghis to war with Alex before he dows me.
- Couple of turns later, Alex still dows me with muskets eventhough he's at war with GK, I have cannons+riffles, he's pleased with me and he doesn't even like Gilga. WTH?????? Piece of
- Later on I sign peace with Alex.
- When I'm taking the last of Gilgs cities (cannons+riffles vs grens) Alex dows me AGAIN at pleased.
- When I finally destroy Gilg and get my sod to Alex, the AP stops the war.
- I beelined Infantry.
- Ragnar vassals to Monte.
- I dow Monty (and ragnar) with Infantry+cannons vs riffles/cavs.
- I take three cities ... Monte got artillery now.
- Anyhow GK dowed Monte too so it's a fair 2v2.
- Ragnar breaks free, vassals to GK.
- I took 5-6 cities from Monte and he's willing to vassal and I stopped playing at this point. I really hate vassaling but I have a feeling GK will vassal him instead.
- In the meanwhile, I still got monopoly on assembly line but Alex and Ragnar got artillery. My tech rate sucked since riffling and I decided to stop researching and go for draft/rushuy domination. (not that i have much gold )


All in all the game went pretty bad. I don't think I will lose but it's going to be a lot of tedious warring. I hope to get a strong infantry/cannon sod and attack GK (+ragnar vassal) and hope Ragnars artillery doesn't pwn me of the planet.

WW really killed my tech fighting two AI's all the time Gilg+Alex and later Monte+Ragner(+SoZ). I would've traded agg+prot for spi any time.

Another mistake I think is setting my empire up for space win and then just wanting to try and war too much. I should've gone FE/SE really and put HE in the capital.. but whatever.

When I have the balls .. I will finish the slugfest and make a small report. I'm really not happy with how the game turned out, I had such a tech advantage and wasted it all. I had riffling when no one even had Education or PP. What really messed it up was that freaking Gilg who had to be "special" and beeline MTS. I could've wiped out any AI easily if they were only bordering me. Tsk ... maybe I should've dowed faster.

The idea was Riffles vs longbows Gilg, Riffles/cannons vs grens Monte, Infantry vs riffles GK. It "was" a nice idea.
Anyways I don't think I will lose, it's only Alex/Ragnar/GK left. If I can win against GK it's game over and since he doesn't have artillery or infantry yet, I think it should be manageable.

Well this post got much bigger then I planned, hope I didn't bore ya'll.

@duck I'm curious what you made of your game.

 

[Duckweed]

@BurN

Opposite to your game. I am friendly with 4 AIs until ~1500AD. So the tech speed in whole is incredible. I have never been in real tech lead all the time, there are always someone beat me to those military techs first. I am ready for a total war with tanks/cavs/Bombers for now.

 

[Duckweed]

1000AD

Spoiler :

My capital focused on infrastructures and wonders during this period and I slowly built units in other cities. There is nothing to mention of the war with Monty before 540AD, when I wined the lib race and started to prepare for revenge. Under the pressure of Gilgi and Shaka, Monty could not send out a single unit to my land for a long time. Monty made peace with Shaka in some day and I bribed Gilgi to retreat in 560AD since Gilgi is too strong for Monty and I don't want to see Monty's capitulating to Gilgi. I wiped out a Monty's small SOD a few turns later (I am alone in the war with Monty during this period) and then bribed Shaka to war with Monty again (Shaka was backward and would be easy to be controlled to be in or out of the war). During this period, I ceased fire with Monty for a few turns in order to trade for a large amount of Monty's treasure and then DOW Monty (This costs me -1 relation penalty with GK and Ragnar). My SOD consisted of all kind of units (from archers to Cuis) but unstoppable for Monty. Shaka demonstrated his excellent talent of cooperative warring. My trebs/cats bombarded down city's defense followed by shaka's wiping out most of Monty's guarding units, then I captured city without any casualty. The most annoying thing during this period is the AP resolution popped the turn before my capture of 1st Monty's city -- stop the war against me. AP was silent when I was weak for hundreds of years and then showed mercy for the winner. I defied and this put my small pitiable cities to raise black smoke on top of green one.

I pleased the top 3 AIs to friendly before 500AD and this enable me to do tech broking among them. However it is very hard to control since they are also friendly to each other. The potential of a small empire runs out after renaissance, your BPT is no match to top AIs. The top three AIs' GNP are almost 3 times of mine and they start to run away in tech race. Land is power really stands out from then on.

Tech: Paper->Edu(1GS)->Med->Lib(1GS) take Astronomy->Economy->Rifling (I partially researched some techs and managed tech broking)

560AD

560AD Tech

1000AD

1000AD Tech

I will have all Monty's land next through a lengthy and slow war (3~4 turns to move and another 3~4 turns for bombardment on wall/castle). A diplomatic win would be easier from current situation. However, that is not my style and I tend to win as strong rather than weak.

Question: After I defied the AP resolution, I found that not only all the AP religious cities got 5 angry faces and lost the bonus hammers, but also those bonus hammers and full membership gone for ever . Is this the game mechanic or a bug?

 

[Duckweed]

1535AD

Spoiler :

Ragnar completed Rifling 5 turns before me, I still had Chemistry on him to trade the rest and then immediately traded Rifling for SM and MS. I could not slow down teching from this point since I need to race for Physics. Cavs can only help me to take down Monty and then Shaka at the most. However, there are three runaway powerful AIs ahead. I need the aid from bombers. I only upgraded a few cuis to cavs for the toughest defenders so the war went slowly before I win the Physics race (actually I was the only one went for it). In 1200AD, I finally sent Monty to history (the powerful cavs took the last two cities without bombardment). Now it is the time for recovery. Monty's capital is a commerce beast with matured villages/towns and gold+silver mines. However, after seeing the two settled GG, I decided to put HE here and replaced villages/towns with watermills (considering that Electricity will come soon, so watermills make an optimal balance). I put IW in Capital.

1280AD Monty's land

1280AD Tech: Physics (2GS)->Electricity

My empire is in a fully research mode and then war preparing mode after 1200AD. Although I have determined to go for bomber required techs. My decision of tech path is not that optimal. Due to small empire, even my full EPP has been put on Gilgi from the beginning, Gilgi's EPP still leads me all the time, so I can not see his research. I have to guess which tech those AIs will research next and try to take the benefit from the trade. As you can see from the tech screen in 1280AD. Gilgi already had Electricity. Ragnar, GK and Gilgi's GNP are 3 times of me even after I doubled my land from Monty. OH, and GK also chase for Electricity at the same time. The next tech I researched was Radio, and this time those aggressive AIs did not prioritize it. Ragnar finished Flight quickly during this time. So in the happy Budism club, the tech speed is flying. Flight, Radio and Ind were available in 1440AD. Even Shaka demonstrated his value by devoting Biology and Medicine.

GK DOW Gilgi and Alex in 1380AD. He made steady progress and took 2 cities from Gilgi including the capital.

I think I grabbed too many wonders in this game and some of them were a waste of investment. I would go for Oracle, GL, MoM, Taj, Kre, Cristo Redentor, and maybe pentagon if I see the chance and/or have the bonus resource. For the other world wonders, I consider them only if I have some spare cities to do it or I have the bonus resource to build them for cash.

In 1535AD, I am ready for conquering with tanks/cavs/bombers.

1370AD GK's SOD

1440AD Tech

1535AD GNP even Shaka beat me until now

1535AD Force

1535AD Tech: Electricity->Radio->Mass Media

 

[Unconquered Sun]

Warmongers, eh?


@750 BC

Spoiler :

That many warmongering psychos are hard to control, so instead of waiting for a DoW I aimed to be the first to DoW.

The capital is great for early warmongering, two food resources + lots of hills to mine + lots of forests to chop + gold to pay the bill. No second city is needed.

I send my warrior hopefully to steal a worker, but didn't find any. What I found was a bit of gold and a scout (huts).

Techs went Irrigation (for corn), Mining (for gold), AH (pigs + reveal horse), Hunting (happiness), Archery, Horseback Riding (good archerkiller + good tech to trade). Only after that I teched BW for chopping, but not for slaving because with so many mines and no happy cap booster the capital wasn't slaving any units.

I almost DoWed Gilga but luckily he discovered Writing and offered OP, so I scouted and saw he has lots of spears and UUs already. I had to attack Shaka despite most of his cities were on hills. The war started shortly after 2000 BC, I used the chariots to disrupt Zululand and then started taking cities with HAs.

As expected, the capital did great in unit production. Also as expected, the war was bloody, I lost 7 HA and 4 chariots v 31 archers.

When I reduced Shaka to one city (unfortunately his capital) I demanded Math and Sailing for peace. In the meantime I had traded HA to Gilga for various cheap techs including Writing, discovered Aesthetics and in 750 BC my tech situation is quite good.

No AI has Monarchy (??) and with Oracle already built no AI is in position to get Feudalism soon enough to save Shaka. I can go for GL, NE, and HE, or go for Constuction and WE/cats right away...

 

[Dirk1302]

Hope to play this one in the near future.
@Duckweed, check your pm.

 

[Duckweed]

1640AD--The End

Spoiler :

I DOWed Shaka in 1535AD and bribed GK to stop the war with Gilgi as well. Since Gilgi's major forces were destroyed with the fall of his capital, he could not stop GK anymore. I took 5 cities from Shaka and eliminated his SOD from Sparta as well in 3 turns. Next turn I DOW Gilgi and Alex. With infantries, Gilgi and Alex are a little tougher than Shaka. Still, it was a very easy war with the aid from bombers. 10 turns later, Shaka, Alex, and Gilgi all became history.

1545AD

1585AD

Ragnar completed Manhattan project a couple of turns after I DOWed Gilgi, which left me no other choice but nuclear war. No matter how powerful are the SODs, they are just ashes under the mushroom cloud. The only effective way to win the war when nukes are available is to use nukes first and try to capture most of the coastal cities. My play is usually quite sloppy in the late game since both myself and my computer are short of energy to manage large amount of units and cities. The only thing I know is whipping the units. So in 1620AD, I gathered my forces and sent them to the striking positions. I DOWed GK first and then Ragnar in the same turn. Attacking from Ragnar's border cities, I captured 2 of GK's major inland cities (Budism holy city and city with pentagon), and 3 of GK's coastal cities as well in the first turn of the war. Using the same strategy, I also captured all Ragnar's major cities and destroyed his forces in the first turn of the war. 3 turns later, they were both willing to capitulate. So in 1640 AD, I won by domination. Hmm, why not conquest?

1620AD

1640AD

Capital

HE City

Unit built

 

[Unconquered Sun]

Spoiler :

Continuing from my last update, I chose the GL path and completed the GL and the Parthenon, while finishing off Shaka. Ulundi is a good city, so I could afford to specialize it for unit production while Kyoto shifted focus to cottages.

Next I grabbed Music and chopped the S.Paya to near completion and cashed on it. Alex tried to interfere but I had scouted his SoD and easily destroyed it and moved to capture a city.

Then Ragnar's SoD appeared on the border and went for Kyoto, so I had to whip a couple of units. Ragnar also managed to pillage one of the cottages there. Still, those are minor concerns for defeating another SoD. I also cut off Ragnar's OB with Monty, severing his offensive.

Then GK stabbed Ragnar, and since I had Monty on payroll to fight Alex, and Gilga checked, it got really easy. Alex is SoDless and Monty will keep him so for several turns, then it's cats+phants ownage. Ragnar's war is effectively over. My beaker rate is good, unit production will be great when the HE completes, and GL+Parthenon make bulbing easy. The AIs stand no chance. This is what I dislike about warmongers (and aggressive AI as well), they are deadly at first, but if you make it, the game is pre-decided very very early.

 

[Duckweed]

@ U Sun

Spoiler :

This is what I dislike about warmongers (and aggressive AI as well), they are deadly at first, but if you make it, the game is pre-decided very very early.

I would partially agree on your opinion.

No one like to be declared, especially very early on. However, I always force myself to fight this situation before I consider myself as a master of a certain level. Getting declared before Alphabet is surely a pain since you have to face the war yourself and will slow down everything. Except that, I can win almost 100%.

As I mentioned in the reply to BurN, the weakness of this map is that Shaka does not have copper, and this give you the chance to rush him and get more and better land than usual. Alex does not have metals, which makes his SOD of HAs/cats just experience facing your WEs. However, early rush in deity level is usually unfavorable, except that the nearby AI is short of copper and/or you play the Inca, Persia, and Egypt and have Horse nearby. Try not to rush Shaka and see how well you can pull up in this map.

You displayed a skillful early rush and your game are in very good position atm, however IMO not to the pre-decided point. In most of the deity game I played, I can catch up on tech race around 500BC and start to lead in the early AD. However, there are always AIs far ahead on score . I am confident to say I can win at that point, but not a decided point. In your game, even with all land from Shaka, the top AIs still beat you, and they are sharing the religion, therefore, their tech rate would be faster than usual. In my play, I led them by two techs after I won the lib race, but got surpassed in a short time. My feeling of this game is that it is far more harder to win than other peacefully games.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

@duckweed

Spoiler :

@ U Sun

I would partially agree on your opinion.

No one like to be declared, especially very early on. However, I always force myself to fight this situation before I consider myself as a master of a certain level. Getting declared before Alphabet is surely a pain since you have to face the war yourself and will slow down everything. Except that, I can win almost 100%.

As I mentioned in the reply to BurN, the weakness of this map is that Shaka does not have copper, and this give you the chance to rush him and get more and better land than usual. Alex does not have metals, which makes his SOD of HAs/cats just experience facing your WEs. However, early rush in deity level is usually unfavorable, except that the nearby AI is short of copper and/or you play the Inca, Persia, and Egypt and have Horse nearby. Try not to rush Shaka and see how well you can pull up in this map.

You displayed a skillful early rush and your game are in very good position atm, however IMO not to the pre-decided point. In most of the deity game I played, I can catch up on tech race around 500BC and start to lead in the early AD. However, there are always AIs far ahead on score . I am confident to say I can win at that point, but not a decided point. In your game, even with all land from Shaka, the top AIs still beat you, and they are sharing the religion, therefore, their tech rate would be faster than usual. In my play, I led them by two techs after I won the lib race, but got surpassed in a short time. My feeling of this game is that it is far more harder to win than other peacefully games.

Nah, it's over. With GL+Parthenon my bulbing speed will be too high for the AIs to keep up. Moreover, I already have two great capitals and I can afford to specialize one for science and the other for units, you didn't have that in your game at this point. Most importantly, no AI can hurt me at the moment, not even a Gilga DoW. I'll finish off Alex, bulb to comfortable Rene edge, kill Gilga, and win any way I want.

The AIs lack of metals certainly made this easy and so did Kyoto, a rush capital with 2 food resources, hills, and gold. But if you're in for a real test, try two continents with warmongers on yours and peacenuts on the other

 

[Duckweed]

@U Sun

Spoiler :

True that your current situation is better than mine in the same time. Production, yes, due to the better and bigger land you own atm, but 8 cities is not that impressive and decisive, which can be achieved by successful blocking in a peaceful environment. Teching, not really, the deity teching, especially before 1000AD, relies much more on the bulbing and tech broking. You won't have better diplomatic environment than me since you suffered negative modification from DOW on Shaka twice. Still I would not think you can win easier than a game with peacemongers around. It is usually tougher to fight a war against backward but well prepared aggressive AI than advanced Gandhi. BurN reached the similar situation as you and had Rifleman before everyone had Edu, listen to him about his feeling. I consider a decided point as when players play levels lower are able to continue and win by any type. Oh no, except the AP win, which IMO unless he is the #1 in score, AP win is essentially a loss. However, how do you think about the decided point is just private feeling and I would say there is no doubt you can pull a win from current position, as I also quit most of my play ~1AD .

The only thing I don't agree with you is that surrounding by warmongers is by far the toughest setting than others and your early successfully hunting down one AI does not make the game easier than others. Actually it is much easier to achieve such situation in the similar situation in a peaceful environment. Also your suggested setting might not be tougher, but interesting. However, there is low chance to generate a map which separates the wanmongers and peacemongers. Beside, if you successfully survive and conquer your continent, no matter how advanced on the other continent, they will moan under the feet of my army.

 

[Dirk1302]

Bump,

Finally got around to trying this one on.The beginning was quiet...

Until 1060 AD.

Spoiler :

Settled the same cities as Duckweed did, not too surprising since it's hard to think of other spots to settle. I waited with BW favoring writing early to have 25% on early research. This capital will not whip and i'd like to leave the forests until after math, could have missed out on bronze this way but well archers do as well on defense.

After 1000 bc i had 5 troop stationed between Osaka and Satsuma Since both cities have walls I should be able to withstand any non cat attack. Zulus' don't seem too strong actually, i was more afraid of a Gilga attack, he seemed to have a very nice start. But since his borders are a bit farther away i can also reach Tokyo in time with this small stack As it is neither came for me as they were too busy with each other, typical matchups were

Ghenghis-Ragnar
Monty Ghenghis
Gilga - Shaka

I think Bleys is right that you can be lucky/unlucky in this game. Declaration between 1000 BC and 1 AD without cats wouldn't have hurt me much, after there was never a threat of declaration on me. But it might have been hard to cope with a pre 1000 bc attack and especially a pre 1500 bc attack, you need to compromise, either turtle even more than i did here or take some risk and get a bit easy on units very early. Even here you might strike lucky, if you get a long wheeohrn period you'll know what to do. Some attacks though have only 1 turn grace period if the ais follow DAGGER_STRATEGY as pointed out by DanF. That's why i needed troops that could reach all three outer cities in 1 or a few turns in the case of Tokyo.

In the meantime Ghenghis has vassalized to Monty, Monty definitely seems to be the topdog this game, when was the last time i saw that if ever?

Got all the gpp marble wonders + NE up by 1 AD. Had lib researched to 1 turn 400 AD, bulbed philo, 1/2 edu, 3/4 lib. I really tried to get steel but it wasn't possible as Alex is after economics and researches edu early. So nationalism + taj it is. We miss a sixth city for some ni

ce national wonders, i could have built one but it would only be overkill delaying the necessary unit build up.
It's nice to have oxford up 1000 AD but it's more important to get to more land here.

I convert all plains to workshops and emphasize trading/researching towards guilds/chemistry. Steel is rather a pain to research even in GA but 1060 AD it's in.

I plan to take out Gilg now. It would definitely be a mistake to attack the Zulu's now since that'll only net me ~ 4 cities and i'll be done with then since Gilg will be that much stronger. If i can kill Gilg i'm sure to get both Alex and Zulu's later since i won't need a military advantage against them. Atm Gilg is rather strong,

So i bribed Monty against him, cost me chem + 100 gold. Gilg will get distracted by this at least, i hope he transfers some units from Kish then i can attack and quickly take Kish/Lagash. Once these cities are gone i think Gilg'll be broken.

 

[Duckweed]

^Have you found the amazing tech speed of aggressive AIs in this setting? Fighting tech parity aggressive AI is a pain. I guess Gilgi is going for MS at the moment, which is probably going to slow down your warring progress. Monty grows too strong in your game.

 

[Dirk1302]

^Yes, i guess Gilg will have Grens soon, that's why i want to have a convincing stack before going for an attack. Cannons can solve a lot of issues they will deal with the grens too but i need some 20 of them. Well i'm close to that number anyway, so i will always be fighting with some more or less healthy ones. I also need more city takers, cuirassiers is simply the best i can field and they'll actually do fine with promotions. A big advantage of mounted even when going with siege is that they're flexible, can heal a turn then catch up and can defend a city while the stack moves on.

Indeed Monty is growing very big but what can i do? If all goes as planned it'll be a big modern war showdown between Monty and me. I Plan to take all land west of Monty and no doubt Monty will take the rest sooner or later. If i can indeed take all the land i've planned i think i will have a fair chance in the endgame even though i will be ~10 techs behind. Monty'll probably attack me with superior units at one stage of the game, i just read in a thread right here that i should upgrade grens to MG. With Japanese traits i think i can field some very tough defenders on the cities bordering Monty. I don't think i can be touched if i execute this plan right. Look at King of the Hill, there's amazing things you can do on defense.

Techspeed is indeed very high, apart from Zulu's i don't have a clear target. Even on deity being ready with cannons ~1050 AD is just good but here there's just lots of work to be done. I look forward to the continuation.

Protective is often sniffed at, on deity it's often just one of the strongest traits imo.

 

[Dirk1302]

Until 1740 AD,

Spoiler :

Game unfolded as i thought from the 1060 AD save, i wait another 13 turns building up a solid army as Gilg is not really close to the really annoying stuff yet. Gilg get grens but finally moves them away from Kish to defend against Monty, i move in:

Gilg doesn't give me much trouble, i think Monty has hit him hard or maybe i overestimated his power anyway. Alex is gone in a flash, he really has nothing. But Ragnar has taken Nobamba from Zulu and vassalized him, there are some 15 rifles defending that city. Monty comes to my aid by declaring on Ragnar causing Ragnar to move this stack out towards Monty where it's duly killed some turns later. I now declare on Ragnar/Zulu. Shaka has cannons and rifles, the war is not really difficult but i do lose some units due to collateral/rifle attacks from him. I do have some defending grens but once the cuirassiers/cavs get to defend it's no good, losses don't amount to much though. Take him out ~1650 AD iirc. Monty makes peace with Ragnar and is soon again in wheoohrn. I miss if he still had a 10 turn peace treaty with Ragnar at that time but i need to upgrade my army anyway, i take the tip to upgrade grens to MG. Then:

My defenses:

Don't think he can touch me with this . The nice thing with all those worthless curis/cavs is that they do soak up collateral damage so the infantry isn't hit so much.

The world split in two:

Tech, worrying:
I'm far behind, i'm stealing techs from Alex now, much cheaper then researching them myself. I will setup a big elaborate spy network from here. After i'm done with Alex i'll turn to Ghengis. Even if i miss internet which doesn't seem impossible at this point in he game Monty won't profit.

Relations have been worrying for quite some time, there's not much real friendship in this world:

 

[Duckweed]

Very tense situation and definitely more enjoyable experience than my play.

Some suggestions:

Alex will become much more useful if you can liberate some southern small cities to him and provide him resources to help him grow bigger, He won't help you much in military, but will help you on teching with a few more cities.

Your defense will be tougher when Monty's air units and siege units come, that won't be long. Prepare for it.

Beware of nukes.

 

[Dirk1302]

Played it until 1900 AD and had a lot of fun along the way. Since i'm far behind on tech i build all the spy buildings and steal lots of tech from GK nothing he can do as a vassal. If you have never tried this, if you're far behind in techs stealing is much cheaper than researching yourself even if you don't have to many modifiers like religion. Traderoutes,stationary spy,20 0r 40% religion, favorable espionage spending, it adds up rather quickly. If you build all the buildings and raise the slider you tend to get more spypoints than research since even bad cities contribute significantly as long as the buildings are built/rushed. Steal from someone you don't fear since the negative modifiers add up quickly.

I'm comfortably first to internet and now i'm even with Monty who is pursuing a cultural win (Game would have been more difficult if he'd gone space). Of course he attacks me ~1850 AD but i have enormous stacks in both cities ~100 in each with lots of higly promoted mechs. Still it takes quite some time before i can counter so much units are smashed on these cities. I have researched laser in the meantime and i strike back once i have cannons/artillery upgraded. Counter is quick and decisive. i take some 6 cities including Monty's capital. Since i need to heal i take peace and another city to clear culture. Monty still has a lot of cities but i have composites and i am researching stealth now. He'll fall quickly if i attack him with these units. Game is won so i call it a day. I'll put up a save tonight.

Toku is often seen as bad leader but i can't agree. Especially mid/late game he shines on this level. I can put up a good economy without favorable traits but it's always difficult to defend against deity attacks, Toku is one of the best in this respect.

 

[Dirk1302]

Here's the save. Even by deity standards this was imo a very though game with the tiny empire i began with (5 cities). It cost me a whole lotta time thinking out what was the best way to proceed between 1000-1200 AD. The rest was time consuming too. But in the end definitely one of the best games i've played. So i have to be in awe of you finishing so early Duckweed .

It's a pity that this thread hasn't received more attention as the problem Duckweed raises in this thread is a very real one. It hasn't been adressed too often too in deity walkthroughs i've seen here. Winning in a peaceful environment can be hard too but if you are hampered by the need to defend (since there's no diplo solution here) but also have to make sure you research (or steal well) and have to get enough land there is just a loads of work to be done. Well maybe the challenge was just to steep .

 

[Gliese 581]

I can look into generating and WB a dual continents map with warmongers on the players continent and peacemongers on the other if anyone is interested.
I've never replaced civs and such before in the WB but I imagine it's quite simple. You delete then add units and give them some techs?