Schuesseled
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@TM Moot: The enemy will definetly have more spearmen than you have CC's, so i wouldn't expect that to work either.
The UU-A-Day Countdown
- Thread starter ShaqFu
- Start date
TM Moot
King
ErichRommel
Chieftain
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Doesnt an attack automatically end the turn for the unit?
diablochimp
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@stile
Well if there is higher chance of surviving battles you won't be forced to take the enemies hex, but passing through the line was more of a passing thought, which could only work if you cAn pass through allied units (which I heard somewhere but can't truly remember), however I'm more interested to see how well hit and run attacks would work, as it sounds quite useful.
@erichrommel
havnt heard either way >.< I just assumed they would keep the cIV system.
Well if there is higher chance of surviving battles you won't be forced to take the enemies hex, but passing through the line was more of a passing thought, which could only work if you cAn pass through allied units (which I heard somewhere but can't truly remember), however I'm more interested to see how well hit and run attacks would work, as it sounds quite useful.
@erichrommel
havnt heard either way >.< I just assumed they would keep the cIV system.
ErichRommel
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i doubt it diablo cause on some units like siam elephant its stated as special abbiliy so it wont be standard.
diablochimp
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Ahh damn good spot , never saw that. thanks for the info.
i still think the CC is a particularly solid UU, just not as much utility as i had expected at first.
i still think the CC is a particularly solid UU, just not as much utility as i had expected at first.
mjs0
The 4th X
I was under the impression that units cannot move after attacking.
I don't recall a specific source, but the Civilopedia entry for the GDR specifically highlights its ability to move after attacking as if it is non-standard.
Ahriman
Tyrant
The lancer and cavalry also appear to have this ability, but the horseman does not. I do not think they would allow such hit and run attacks with horsemen or CC, for balance reasons.
They have the most clear-cut strategy we know thus far (kill early, league later), but I wouldn't call them the best. The Romans and Ottomans also get complementary UUs, with the Ottomans having the best power period, so to speak, as the Janissary/Sipahi combo is backed up by their free navy. The Romans can use Glory of Rome to get their conquered cities online faster (cheap Courthouses), and the Greeks can do neither. The Greeks have to play the war game early and the city-state game late, and we'll see how easily the transfer happens, especially with Honor not really adding much to diplomacy. Diplomatically, we'll have to see how Hellenic League compares to Father Governs Children; I fully expect a 500 post thread at some point on the topic.
We also don't know anything about the third civ-specific aspect, UBs, which could completely overshadow UUs. I know in Civ4 I'd gladly trade 90% of the UUs for the Terrace or Rathaus, although Civ4 also had really boring UUs. For all we know, the Mughal Fort could give an extra city attack per turn or something, in which case we'll end up discussing how India is the best civ.
Actually, given the kind of abilities we've seen on UUs, that's very possibly something we'll see on the Mughal Fort or Krepost...
Kinda off-topic but I would not be surprised if you cannot build a courthouse in your capital city. The point of the courthouse is to remove the penalty for annexing a city and since you cannot annex your own capital it would have no benefit ASIDE from Rome's bonus and from the looks of things Firaxis is not of the mind to allow a rushed courthouse.
12 days left! We'll stay where - and when - we were yesterday with Ancient Greece, and this time, turn our attention to the Hoplite. This unit is tied with the Legion* as the longest-running UU in Civ, appearing as either the Hoplite or Phalanx in every iteration of the game. They've come a long way since their tank-beating days in 1991, serving as extra-defense Spearmen, melee-busting Spearmen, and Chariot-beating Axemen (which is really weird...). For Civ5, they're back in fine form, with a simple but potent +2 strength (9) over generic Spearmen.
Much like the Companion Cavalry, this unit doesn't have any fancy abilties - just sheer strength. For most UUs, this would make it comparatively weak; +2 strength isn't much compared to double attack or ranged mounted. It's moreso the timing of the UU that makes it so powerful: +2 strength matters a lot in the ancient era, and it comes alongside another stat-bonus UU. Since it's raw strength, it gets multiplied further by veteranship/SPs/Generals, and thus can turn a small edge into an overwhelimg one. In the ancient era, a line of Disciplined/Generaled veteran Hoplites will be a nigh-invulnerable wall against any comers, and one that should exploit its advantage swiftly - even just two Hoplites will get Discipline and Flanking, snowballing 9 strength into an even greater advantage. Much like phalanx combat, the Hoplite works best in lines, maximizing its various advantages over other infantry.
This UU is at its finest when combined with the Companion - use Hoplites to grind through any major defenses, and strike/flank where necessary with ultra-mobile Cavalry. Fans of ancient combat will love the Greeks, as they offer what may be the strongest comparative military in the game. Other civs may get fantastic UUs, but nothing stands head and shoulders above the enemy like Alexander.
*I previously mentioned that the Legion has been around since Civ3, when it appeared in Civ1 and Civ2 as a non-unique unit.
Much like the Companion Cavalry, this unit doesn't have any fancy abilties - just sheer strength. For most UUs, this would make it comparatively weak; +2 strength isn't much compared to double attack or ranged mounted. It's moreso the timing of the UU that makes it so powerful: +2 strength matters a lot in the ancient era, and it comes alongside another stat-bonus UU. Since it's raw strength, it gets multiplied further by veteranship/SPs/Generals, and thus can turn a small edge into an overwhelimg one. In the ancient era, a line of Disciplined/Generaled veteran Hoplites will be a nigh-invulnerable wall against any comers, and one that should exploit its advantage swiftly - even just two Hoplites will get Discipline and Flanking, snowballing 9 strength into an even greater advantage. Much like phalanx combat, the Hoplite works best in lines, maximizing its various advantages over other infantry.
This UU is at its finest when combined with the Companion - use Hoplites to grind through any major defenses, and strike/flank where necessary with ultra-mobile Cavalry. Fans of ancient combat will love the Greeks, as they offer what may be the strongest comparative military in the game. Other civs may get fantastic UUs, but nothing stands head and shoulders above the enemy like Alexander.
*I previously mentioned that the Legion has been around since Civ3, when it appeared in Civ1 and Civ2 as a non-unique unit.
In the gamespot walktrought, you can see (at 10:30) a cavalery unit attacking a rifleman squad and then moving out of the way so that another unit can attack the city behind.
TM Moot
King
I'm a fan of early conquest then peaceful expansion/growth to victory, so i can't wait to try the Romans and Greeks.
It will be really interesting to see which UA (Glory of Rome/Hellenic League) is stronger, probably the Roman one is easier to master, but the Greek one could be the stand out UA if City States are as influential as imagined.
2 weeks to go...!!
It will be really interesting to see which UA (Glory of Rome/Hellenic League) is stronger, probably the Roman one is easier to master, but the Greek one could be the stand out UA if City States are as influential as imagined.
2 weeks to go...!!
Feyd Rautha
Prince
It will be hard to lose the best iteration of hoplite/phalanx that they made in Civ IV, but as it stands this strikes me as a powerful UU. I just wish their window wasn't so short in my games. Hoplites ruled the battlefield for 500 years (8th century to 3rd century BCE) and yet they are only useful for about 10 minutes of game time sometimes 
Stefanskantine
Angry Partisan
It will be hard to lose the best iteration of hoplite/phalanx that they made in Civ IV, but as it stands this strikes me as a powerful UU. I just wish their window wasn't so short in my games. Hoplites ruled the battlefield for 500 years (8th century to 3rd century BCE) and yet they are only useful for about 10 minutes of game time sometimes
marathon speed is your friend. For the same reason I only like to play marathon games. In Civ 4, middle age battles were almost nonexistent on anything faster. I like to enjoy the units and gameplay of each era fully.
Anyway hoplite/companion is obviously a great combo. To analyze it against other ancient civs, the greeks are well positioned to leverage both their UUs and UA simultaneously I think. Early aggresion/expansion isn't going to hinder currying favor with city states much, it could even help. Contrast this to say Egypt, where it seems they are more of an either or civ. You can either put your hammers into an army of chariots, or wonders, but not both. That said, egypt has a faster beeline to its UU, and if wonders are strong their UA could be uber
ProphetofProfit
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It also looks like Hoplites can be unlocked quickly with them being available with Bronze Working, which is obtained through the chain of
Agriculture>Mining>Bronze Working.
All of which are Ancient era techs so I presume that they all take relatively few turns to research. I'm not sure if every Civ starts with Agriculture, if so, it's only two techs to BW.
So once BW is unlocked, we have a str 9 unit availble against the following:
Brute: str 6
Chariot Archer: str 3 ranged 6
Archer: str 4 ranged 6
Spearman: str 7
Jaguar: str 6
War Elephant: str 6 ranged 8
My observation is that Hoplites will probably dominate up to Iron Working and the subsequent production of Legions and Swordsmen. It might be a good idea to get BW asap, spam Hoplites and then go on the rampage before other Civ's units can compete. And even when Swordsmen and Legions are available, the Greeks may then have unlocked Horseback Riding for the CC to maintain an advantage.
It's probably a good idea to unlock the Honor SP for the +25% vs Barbarians, then either Warrior Code for the free Great General or Disipline for the +15% bonus from adjacent units to maximise ones advantages.
Agriculture>Mining>Bronze Working.
All of which are Ancient era techs so I presume that they all take relatively few turns to research. I'm not sure if every Civ starts with Agriculture, if so, it's only two techs to BW.
So once BW is unlocked, we have a str 9 unit availble against the following:
Brute: str 6
Chariot Archer: str 3 ranged 6
Archer: str 4 ranged 6
Spearman: str 7
Jaguar: str 6
War Elephant: str 6 ranged 8
My observation is that Hoplites will probably dominate up to Iron Working and the subsequent production of Legions and Swordsmen. It might be a good idea to get BW asap, spam Hoplites and then go on the rampage before other Civ's units can compete. And even when Swordsmen and Legions are available, the Greeks may then have unlocked Horseback Riding for the CC to maintain an advantage.
It's probably a good idea to unlock the Honor SP for the +25% vs Barbarians, then either Warrior Code for the free Great General or Disipline for the +15% bonus from adjacent units to maximise ones advantages.
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