The UU-A-Day Countdown

[Polobo]

The Romans can use Glory of Rome to get their conquered cities online faster (cheap Courthouses)...

Kinda off-topic but I would not be surprised if you cannot build a courthouse in your capital city. The point of the courthouse is to remove the penalty for annexing a city and since you cannot annex your own capital it would have no benefit ASIDE from Rome's bonus and from the looks of things Firaxis is not of the mind to allow a rushed courthouse.

 

[ShaqFu]

12 days left! We'll stay where - and when - we were yesterday with Ancient Greece, and this time, turn our attention to the Hoplite. This unit is tied with the Legion* as the longest-running UU in Civ, appearing as either the Hoplite or Phalanx in every iteration of the game. They've come a long way since their tank-beating days in 1991, serving as extra-defense Spearmen, melee-busting Spearmen, and Chariot-beating Axemen (which is really weird...). For Civ5, they're back in fine form, with a simple but potent +2 strength (9) over generic Spearmen.

Much like the Companion Cavalry, this unit doesn't have any fancy abilties - just sheer strength. For most UUs, this would make it comparatively weak; +2 strength isn't much compared to double attack or ranged mounted. It's moreso the timing of the UU that makes it so powerful: +2 strength matters a lot in the ancient era, and it comes alongside another stat-bonus UU. Since it's raw strength, it gets multiplied further by veteranship/SPs/Generals, and thus can turn a small edge into an overwhelimg one. In the ancient era, a line of Disciplined/Generaled veteran Hoplites will be a nigh-invulnerable wall against any comers, and one that should exploit its advantage swiftly - even just two Hoplites will get Discipline and Flanking, snowballing 9 strength into an even greater advantage. Much like phalanx combat, the Hoplite works best in lines, maximizing its various advantages over other infantry.

This UU is at its finest when combined with the Companion - use Hoplites to grind through any major defenses, and strike/flank where necessary with ultra-mobile Cavalry. Fans of ancient combat will love the Greeks, as they offer what may be the strongest comparative military in the game. Other civs may get fantastic UUs, but nothing stands head and shoulders above the enemy like Alexander.

*I previously mentioned that the Legion has been around since Civ3, when it appeared in Civ1 and Civ2 as a non-unique unit.

 

[krunsh]

Doesnt an attack automatically end the turn for the unit?

In the gamespot walktrought, you can see (at 10:30) a cavalery unit attacking a rifleman squad and then moving out of the way so that another unit can attack the city behind.

 

[TM Moot]

I'm a fan of early conquest then peaceful expansion/growth to victory, so i can't wait to try the Romans and Greeks.

It will be really interesting to see which UA (Glory of Rome/Hellenic League) is stronger, probably the Roman one is easier to master, but the Greek one could be the stand out UA if City States are as influential as imagined.

2 weeks to go...!!

 

[Slinko]

Hoplite is my favorite UU so far.

The word panoply is based off the word Hoplite.

 

[Slinko]

...and nail them from behind with Companions.

Yup, thats what I plan on doing.

 

[Never]

Yeah I'm definitely going to be the Greeks, take over a vast swathe of land and be relatively peaceful for the rest of the game.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

It will be hard to lose the best iteration of hoplite/phalanx that they made in Civ IV, but as it stands this strikes me as a powerful UU. I just wish their window wasn't so short in my games. Hoplites ruled the battlefield for 500 years (8th century to 3rd century BCE) and yet they are only useful for about 10 minutes of game time sometimes

 

[Stefanskantine]

It will be hard to lose the best iteration of hoplite/phalanx that they made in Civ IV, but as it stands this strikes me as a powerful UU. I just wish their window wasn't so short in my games. Hoplites ruled the battlefield for 500 years (8th century to 3rd century BCE) and yet they are only useful for about 10 minutes of game time sometimes

marathon speed is your friend. For the same reason I only like to play marathon games. In Civ 4, middle age battles were almost nonexistent on anything faster. I like to enjoy the units and gameplay of each era fully.

Anyway hoplite/companion is obviously a great combo. To analyze it against other ancient civs, the greeks are well positioned to leverage both their UUs and UA simultaneously I think. Early aggresion/expansion isn't going to hinder currying favor with city states much, it could even help. Contrast this to say Egypt, where it seems they are more of an either or civ. You can either put your hammers into an army of chariots, or wonders, but not both. That said, egypt has a faster beeline to its UU, and if wonders are strong their UA could be uber

 

[ProphetofProfit]

It also looks like Hoplites can be unlocked quickly with them being available with Bronze Working, which is obtained through the chain of

Agriculture>Mining>Bronze Working.

All of which are Ancient era techs so I presume that they all take relatively few turns to research. I'm not sure if every Civ starts with Agriculture, if so, it's only two techs to BW.

So once BW is unlocked, we have a str 9 unit availble against the following:

Brute: str 6
Chariot Archer: str 3 ranged 6
Archer: str 4 ranged 6
Spearman: str 7
Jaguar: str 6
War Elephant: str 6 ranged 8

My observation is that Hoplites will probably dominate up to Iron Working and the subsequent production of Legions and Swordsmen. It might be a good idea to get BW asap, spam Hoplites and then go on the rampage before other Civ's units can compete. And even when Swordsmen and Legions are available, the Greeks may then have unlocked Horseback Riding for the CC to maintain an advantage.

It's probably a good idea to unlock the Honor SP for the +25% vs Barbarians, then either Warrior Code for the free Great General or Disipline for the +15% bonus from adjacent units to maximise ones advantages.

 

[12agnar0k]

yeah, it could well be, the bonus amount seems to be in dispute at the moment

even if it is 100%, it still makes them both same strength, so the CC is on par against its only serious counter

with its huge mobility advantage, you should be able to select where you engage the lumbering spearmen, or at least gang up on individual units to your advantage

Lets not forget that the Spearman's bonus only works in defence, and it is indeed 100% not 50%.
While using Companion Cavalry's one does not need to engage spearmen on 1:1 basis (i.e equal strength) if you just ignore them, even standing on flatland and getting a -33% penalty to defence, the spearman has no hope of beating you if it attacks, so basically the "anti-horse" unit, only acts as a blockade, move around it and your golden. This applies to all other cavalry against spear units too, the spearman is really a defensive unit when it comes to cavalry coming up against you.

P.s not sure if the 100% against mounted bonus will apply to only defence come the final build, but it was indeed the case in an older build / current build.

 

[Ahriman]

I hope that cavalry units are vulnerable to being counter-attacked by spearmen. It makes you think much more carefully about unit placement.
It looks like anti-tank guns get an attack bonus vs tanks, so you do need to try to leave your tanks out of AT gun range at the end of your turn.

 

[Schuesseled]

we're not sure 100% yet how the spearman ability works.

 

[12agnar0k]

Maybe its 50% on the attack and 100% on the defence?

Seems bizarre that cavalry would be better defending than attacking.

No, it was confirmed to be only +100% defence, this is confirmed (well as best as confirmation can be, someone who played the game said it was so), that's not to say I think its particularly good from the spearmans stand point. I would have preferred an attack bonus against mounted too.

And no Cavalry wouldn't be better defending than attacking, its better to ignore spearmen and move around them with your advanced movement points, the matter is that the spearman is not good at attacking mounted units, not that cavalry are better at defending, they are infact quite bad at it, they get no defensive modifier from terrain, its just that spearmen aren't good at attacking.

 

[CleverFool]

Alone I'm not sure that either the Hoplite or the CC are amazingly powerful, but together they seem like a truly potent force. I imagine a strong force of hoplites would hold the front, take on other infantry, while a small force of CC sneak from behind with their 5 move and take out the archers. I'm not really sure how you'd counter this other than maintaining a small front to protect your weaker units. But even so the mass of hoplites should be able to take out any great threat, whether it be spearmen or swordsmen.

I know what *I* will do if I face Greece early on in the game; run away.

 

[MisterBarca]

Which also means in all likelyhood that cavalry doesnt get the -33% for defending open terrain - which makes them better than infantry units (which do get this modifier) at defending open terrain.

Why would you infer this?

 

[Ahriman]

Well, for one thing, it would be crazy if cavalry were better defenders in rough terrain than in the open.

The idea is that "no defensive modifiers from terrain" includes both no bonuses from rough and no penalties from open.

 

[krunsh]

That make sense.

 

[cicero spqr]

There's a non-UU war elephant?

 

[12agnar0k]

Well, for one thing, it would be crazy if cavalry were better defenders in rough terrain than in the open.

The idea is that "no defensive modifiers from terrain" includes both no bonuses from rough and no penalties from open.

I think you will find the description would read "no defensive bonuses from terrain", you will almost certainly still receive the negative -33% to defence on open terrain.

The alternative is not logical at all, and will all most certainly not be the case.