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The UU-A-Day Countdown

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by ShaqFu, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. Stefanskantine

    Stefanskantine Angry Partisan

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    Definitely a good example of how they've added a lot of different "flavor" and differing playstyles with the UUs and UAs. Not my favorite playstyle as of right now, but the Aztecs will definitely be different and worth a try.

    Interesting that with Monte you can do for all out early aggression AND culture simultaneously. That will make them different from all other civs in the game.
     
  2. IdiotsOpposite

    IdiotsOpposite Boom, headshot.

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    If they get a -33% in open terrain, and nothing in rough terrain, that would mean they defend rough terrain better than open terrain. Ergo, they would be better defenders of forests than of grasslands.

    A better solution would be instead of receiving defensive bonuses, make them not receive the -33% in open terrain, but instead get a -33% in rough terrain.

    That's just my opinion, even though it's a damned good one IMO.
     
  3. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    This unit's ability to heal when defeating an enemy will allow them to be decent cannon fodder in later eras.
     
  4. Snoopaloop

    Snoopaloop King

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    Hopefully the Jaguar is the civ5 replacement of the civ4 Inca quecha warrior rush! It was terrible seeing the jaguar be so weak in the last game.
     
  5. Ronojoy1917

    Ronojoy1917 Warlord

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    It doesn't fit the Aztec period of dominance in RL history, like all the other UU's seem to, but it'll make for interesting gameplay I'm sure.
     
  6. ShaqFu

    ShaqFu Requires Nanotechnology

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    Sorry I'm so late on this one, but I was playing a Civ4 LAN late tonight. After stacks of Axemen still being relevant into the medieval age, I'm getting really antsy for some 1upt action...

    Anyway, 10 days! We'll look at another (highly speculative) unit today, and another Civ series favorite, the French Musketeer. Sadly, it's another of the less interesting* UUs, but its ability is certainly potent - +4 strength (20) over your garden variety Musketman.

    Instead of going for fancy abilities, this UU is another blunt instrument: put on battlefield, promote, crack some heads. At its time, this is the second strongest raw unit in the game, behind only Naresuan's Elephant and Lancers, and costs neither strategy (like the former) or resources (like the latter). Given its cheap power, the Musketeer makes for an excellent backbone to a Renaissance army; the extra strength put it over all but one medieval unit, making it fantastic for cleaning out tech laggards, and it provides an edge in gunpowder-on-gunpowder warfare. Any civs attempting a late medieval or mixed medieval/Renaissance invasion will find themselves up against stiff defenses - whereas Longswordsmen and Knights may tear through Musketmen, the roles are reversed with Musketeers. Ultimately, that may be this unit's greatest impact, by obsoleting the medieval trifecta of Crossbow/Knight/Longsword with a single unit. The Musketeer brings in the age of gunpowder resoundingly, with its sheer strength ending the medieval age with, well, a bang. :goodjob:

    *Compare to Civ4, when the raw strength UUs were the most interesting ones...
     
  7. Blackfang

    Blackfang Chieftain

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    The bonus, while not very interesting, seems powerful indeed.
    Any neighbor of the french might want to push for riflemen, that are, thankfully, only two techs away.
    Well, Siam, England, China, USA and Ottomans might somewhat counter the Musketeer with their Medieval and early Renaissance UUs, as might any nation with good supply of iron for longswordsmen (for that, Russia will have an easier time), but still they will be at a disadvantage.
    So, a quick war for France, before the discovery of rifling, seems like a good idea.
     
  8. Omega124

    Omega124 Challenging Fate

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    I think you put it quite good. France will put an end to medieval warfare as you know it. I think this is going to be the Praet of CiV. Build some up, attack your enemies, and laugh after charges of Lancers and Knights are completely stopped in their tracks. I find this humorous in a way, as the English Longbow killed the knight, which the French were so desperate to use in every single freaking battle.
     
  9. Schuesseled

    Schuesseled Deity

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    certainly makes it superior to the civ 4 musketeer. Also it seems to me that France will probably have the only musketman units that won't die horribly 50% of the time when tangling with longswordsman.
     
  10. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    Well said, Shaqfu.
     
  11. 12agnar0k

    12agnar0k Emperor

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    Absoultely rediclious, infact they get compared to other units 0 difference in open terrain (as it should be) and -25% in rough terrain, as it should be, so I really don't see your problem.

    Will they be harder to shoot at when in rough terrain, as apposed to open terrain, yes, the trees are a targets best friend.

    ....

    To move onto the lastest UU.

    Musketeers eh?, only +4 strength to be known so far, but I wouldn't be suprised if they had another ability, just a strength increase doesn't shout finsihed to me.

    Given the "all for one and one for all" musketeers slogan, (this may very well not apply to musketeers in general from a historical point), we could see the musketeers getting a bonus on flanking, thus they would get more than the normal +15% for every adjacent ally (up to +30%) that normal units get. Perhaps a +20% (up to +40%) bonus, or a +15% (up to +45%, with three adjacent allies) bonus.

    That would be my guess at what ability they could get on top of the +4 strength, although I admit this is baseless assumption only thought up because of the TV show/movie The Three Musketeers :D, but its better than nothing.
     
  12. krunsh

    krunsh Prince

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    I think it's weird that they made them ressource free since in reality, Musketeers were trained in very limited number as an elite force for special mission or support in important battle.

    Unless they don't mean the special mosketeers ordered by louis XIII or XIV (not sure anymore.).

    Anyway, france seems fun to play since there special ability cover the start of the game and there special unit the later game.
     
  13. St. Willibrord

    St. Willibrord Chieftain

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    Well, I think they're just using musketeers as a recognizable symbol to represent the general quality of French infantry in the period, just as they previously used Praetorians (a unit that was extremely limited and generally not at all military effective) to represent the Roman legions. I'm a little worried that the French might suffer from the same problem they had in Civ IV: there was little reason to hang around the musketman unit tier with riflemen so close, so musketmen had a very short window of usefulness. However, it may be that the jump in quality from musketman to rifleman in Civ V is less drastic, meaning that musketeers can hang around with their beastly strength bonus (I like strength bonus special abilities; nothing quite like a good power game on the battlefield).
     
  14. bjbrains

    bjbrains Man of U-235

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    Musketeers look like they'll be hugely powerful in their time period: Remember that they're actually cheaper than longswordsmen/Knights/Trebuchets! So you get a powerful all purpose unit that is easier to mass produce than other units.

    Another note: rifling may be "only two techs away", but that means a ton in Civ 5's tech progression. Based on the tech tree that was posted, researching metallurgy/rifling would take about 3.5 times as long as gunpowder itself. And since you'll probably be prioritizing gunpowder more than other civs, you should have a good amount of time to use the unit in. I mean, the first unit that has more strength is the lancer, which obviously is more expensive, needs horses, and would die on any counterattack. So yea, a civ facing France is going to have to be very careful once the medieval age comes to its end, and prepare: The best counter I can see is some combination of longswordsmen/knights to take hits, and trebuchets to weaken the attacking musketeers.
     
  15. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    All Musket-based units require no resources. It would be a huge penalty if the UU required a resource, but the main unit it replaces does not.
     
  16. Snoopaloop

    Snoopaloop King

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    The french musketeer requires saltpeter to create, but unfortunately they forgot to include the resource in the game.
     
  17. bjbrains

    bjbrains Man of U-235

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    What are you talking about? The idea that gunpowder doesn't require strategic resources dates back to civ 4. It's a game-balance decision, not something they "forgot".
     
  18. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Spearmen and archers require wood, and flint or metal for arrows.
     
  19. krunsh

    krunsh Prince

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    Don't get me wrong. I agree 100%, and I'm not one of those who complain about a lack of realism for better gameplay better. I was just pointing that out, thinking they could have use another name for a more regulare musket infantry... But they went for a more common knowledge in pop culture with the french Musketeers, wich is a good idea... It gives more personalité to the Civ.

    I didn't know the praetorian were a rare unit, I'm gonna chek it out.
     
  20. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    It also requires wood for the stock, iron for the lock and barrel. The gunpowder requires sulfur as well. The uniform requires wool or flax that was spun into a textile. The Musketman's shoes require leather. The powder horn requires animal horn.

    I was talking about in-game resources. They didn't forget to include saltpeter, they intentionally didn't include it because they wanted to make musketmen resource free.

    The Praetorian Guard was simply the body guards of the Emperor. Not only were they not common, they really didn't fight much. The same could be said of the Immortals (although they at least fought against the Greeks). They're doing it for flavor more than anything else and Musketeers are iconic of the era of Louis XIV. They were pretty cool too.
     

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