I like appreciating the Illiad...passively, I guess. I appreciate that it started the whole Western literature business, but I don't appraise it as The Best Thing Since Sliced Toast or whatever.
If you want classic literature that helped shape the Western world, there's also the saga of Beowulf (the oldest poem in the English language) and Dante's Divina Commedia, said to be the first (and greatest) work of literature in the Italian language.
Old English, yes. Even the Middle English of King John is unintelligible to the modern ear, let alone the English of King Alfred and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle.
It's also easy to overstate the influence of Beowulf, mind. It became England's Great National Epic in the nineteenth century, bu it was essentially absent from the record for about the seven or eight hundred years previous: the single manuscript surviving manuscript was listed in the library catalogue as a history of early Denmark.
On the other hand, Beowulf is supposedly one of the "Classic" texts which really is worth reading entirely on its own merits, so don't let me discourage you.
If you're looking for a translator who will have anticipated what in the poem you might find boring and have edited it out for you, you might not be ready to read the Iliad yet.
Right, my bad.
Speaking of pretentiousness, that always struck me as a pretentious name for an historic era (after it ceased to confuse me as a name of an historic era).
One thing to remember was that [...] it (the Iliad) was contemporary literature, like anyone would write if they felt inspired to do so. To him it was contemporary literature, like anyone would write if they felt inspired to do so. Who knows what will eventually be considered a classic?
Do you honestly believe that people do on some level harbor the idea that there is something like a "genre" of classics one can choose to write? "I don't feel like writing a romance novel, nor a Sci-Fi novel. And I am not any less fed up with detective stories. Perhaps it is time for a classic - better live on in the hate of millions of children than the love of a few thousands appreciatives."
Or perhaps your point is more subtle? In that case, I am not getting it.
Another thing to remember is that Homer composed his poem to please his contemporary audiences. Most people couldn't read back then, and so if you wanted to get your story told, you got a much wider audience by composing it either as a song or poem that could be sung or recited.
Yes that appears to be an excellent point. I found it interesting what Gori had to say on the matter. Namely, that the meticulous recitation of the build-up of the army was there for the purpose of proving authenticity.
Right, my bad.
Speaking of pretentiousness, that always struck me as a pretentious name for an historic era (after it ceased to confuse me as a name of an historic era).
How so? If something is "pretentious", then it implies that somebody somewhere is engaged in pretense, but I'm not sure who that would be in this case: the people using the term aren't claiming any special status for themselves, and the people being attributed this status were long-dead when the term came into use.
Do you honestly believe that people do on some level harbor the idea that there is something like a "genre" of classics one can choose to write? "I don't feel like writing a romance novel, nor a Sci-Fi novel. And I am not any less fed up with detective stories. Perhaps it is time for a classic - better live on in the hate of millions of children than the love of a few thousands appreciatives."
Some do. John Milton made a resolution to "leave something so written to after times that they should not willingly let it die." Ovid ends the Metamorphosis bragging it will be read as long as the Roman people wear the toga (outlived even his expectations). Homer regarded himself as composing something that would endure through time. His word for it was kleos, fame. He understood himself to be in the business of carrying forward the fame of his focal heroes. He wouldn't have understood what he was about if it wasn't composing (what we call) a "classic" work of literature.
I'm not sure I wouldn't say most authors who've achieved classic status weren't deliberately striving to.
Would anyone be up for me walking y'all through the Iliad, as I did Mise through Much Ado some months back? We'd move it out of this thread into a thread of its own, agree to read a book (1-2 hours reading) per week. Something like that.
I am hearing a whistling wind noise coming from my desktop! It it is somewhat creepy, and set on a short loop. I eliminated the internet or any other programs as possibilities; when I open a fullscreen game like Total War the noise ceases entirely. This is definitely deliberate. A feature of the desktop theme I never happened to notice before? Nah, not buying it.
What exactly is enjoyable about reading classical literature? I picked up a copy of the Iliad (translated by Rouse) and it thus far hasn't made me cry or inspired me to conquer the world.
The best of parents can't beat the overwhelming influence of everyone else, of everyone else's parents, of TV, of journalism-- of a culture that says, "well of course! The old ideas were wrong, we know so much more now! We are touching up the last pages of history, from now on things are different..."
18 years of the best parenting still can't beat the morality lesson at the end of an 80s sitcom, presented as if it were a fundamental truth, known to all, incontrovertible.
So what about the next generation, those under 25? If the problem was the unopposed influence of TV-- not the TV, per se, but the lack of opposing influence-- then the solution is some opposing influence.
I am nervous about recommending "the Classics" because it sounds contrived and pretentious, but anything that has withstood the test of time and is not something that was created to be consumed by current narcissist adults is as good a place to start as any.
Do the opposite of what the narcissists did. They wanted to know enough to fake it. They read just enough to use the book to build an identity, so they read about books, but not the actual books.
If nothing else, reading will keep you out of trouble: every moment reading those books is a moment not doing something your current adults created for themselves that you're stuck with by default.
For the same reason that the idealized tropes regarding this era strike me as pretentious. For instance the notion that Greece "invented" democracy. Or in general that this era "invented" the ideals of civilization or some such. And I take such tropes to be the sole reason why it is called the "Classical" era in the English language. You know, classical as in setting standards or signifying an important step.
If something is "pretentious", then it implies that somebody somewhere is engaged in pretense, but I'm not sure who that would be in this case: the people using the term aren't claiming any special status for themselves
Would anyone be up for me walking y'all through the Iliad, as I did Mise through Much Ado some months back? We'd move it out of this thread into a thread of its own, agree to read a book (1-2 hours reading) per week. Something like that.
I am interested. Personal guidance on such a huge classic, for free? Since I am increasingly interested in literature, that sounds like an offer I should take.
Still, the Communist Manifesto sounds less impressive if it was written by Carl Marx. It sounds.. so.. bourgeoise. You'd expect a guy with a name "Carl" to own several factories where the poor work in subhuman conditions.
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