The votes are in: Jesus wins

[Sidhe]

Our conclusions about the nature of physical reality are restricted to whatever information our senses are able to process and deliver to the brain. Its like trying to follow a baseball game by observing it through a hole you made in the fence thats the width of a pin.

BTW, if you believe in objective truth thats part of the fabric of the universe itself, and has nothing to do with our heads, why not just go ahead and change the label 'Truth' to 'God',

Point is though, Religion differs in that it has nothing visible just theological interpretation: it relies on faith; philosophy has no answers that are verifiable, only questions (and Goord bless it fer that) Science has verifiable visible and experimental evidence, thus the comparison is pretty meaningless; unless your going to assert that everything we see is wrong and based on the tentacle of the FSM or God or x, then your going philosophy and frankly your edging towards meaningless philosophy, ie we can never understand, why bother, let's all make daisy chains and say lalalala because the whole worlds an ineffable mystery, Halelujah! You're a serious nihilist Bozo.

 

[Nylan]

I think one thing Bozo is trying to make a point on is that regardless as to what Christ did/didn't do, the world has been unalteratably affected by him. He has set the course which history has followed to this day.

Making him incredibly powerful and influential as a resident of this planet.

Is that correct/remotely close Bozo?

 

[Bill3000]

philosophy has no answers that are verifiable, only questions

Deductive logic? Quite sure that counts as philosophy.

 

[Perfection]

Right but its the perception of reality that actually matters.

Actually both mattter. If you don't see a truck coming at your side you may not percieve it but it does matter!

Our conclusions about the nature of physical reality are restricted to whatever information our senses are able to process and deliver to the brain. Its like trying to follow a baseball game by observing it through a hole you made in the fence thats the width of a pin.

So, that's just a limitation of how well we can judge the truthfulness of our thoughts.

BTW, if you believe in objective truth thats part of the fabric of the universe itself, and has nothing to do with our heads, why not just go ahead and change the label 'Truth' to 'God',

Well, it has something to do with our heads, but it's not all in our heads. Truth requires mental componants and physical reality.

 

[Strato]

Can I just say that whenever there is a debate, argument, discussion, flame war over science vs religion, it focuses on Christianity. How often is there any discussion on Islam, Judaism, or any religion for that instance. As a result, christianity has to have touched on people's lives in some way shape or form, for them to be able to argue stories and concepts from the bible. Either that, or people have no idea what they are talking about and google recycled arguments.

 

[Nick53]

Can I just say that whenever there is a debate, argument, discussion, flame war over science vs religion, it focuses on Christianity. How often is there any discussion on Islam, Judaism, or any religion for that instance. As a result, christianity has to have touched on people's lives in some way shape or form, for them to be able to argue stories and concepts from the bible. Either that, or people have no idea what they are talking about and google recycled arguments

Good point....

Yeah, if there's no god then there's no "rules" so why can't we just go around killing people? Is it because the 'majority' decided you can't? hmm....

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Tag. This looks like it'll be an interesting discussion.

 

[Quasar1011]

Jesus is the Son of God and when he was among us, performed many miracles, simply because billions of people have decided that its so.

Nope. Jesus was the Son of God, even before He was born on Earth.

Proverbs 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!

 

[Bill3000]

Good point....

Yeah, if there's no god then there's no "rules" so why can't we just go around killing people? Is it because the 'majority' decided you can't? hmm....

Because morality is not based on religion. There's a huge consensus in philosophy on this. And actually, I don't see how that relates to the post you replied to at all.

Nope. Jesus was the Son of God, even before He was born on Earth.

That's irrelevant to the discussion - Bozo is arguing that Jesus has effectively become the Son of God, regardless of if he is actually is in the objective reality, because people believe that he is.

 

[WS78]

You are right. No witty remark necessary.

Altho I have to add, that the course of history wasn't very good, It could have been worse without his existence.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Truth requires mental componants and physical reality.

Truth requires nothing; it just is. Things in the physical universe require some level of consciousness to get a glimmer of what is True.

Bozo, what you say about Jesus is equally true for Krishna, Buddha and Mohammed too.

 

[FredLC]

Can I just say that whenever there is a debate, argument, discussion, flame war over science vs religion, it focuses on Christianity. How often is there any discussion on Islam, Judaism, or any religion for that instance. As a result, christianity has to have touched on people's lives in some way shape or form, for them to be able to argue stories and concepts from the bible. Either that, or people have no idea what they are talking about and google recycled arguments.

Good point....

Yeah, if there's no god then there's no "rules" so why can't we just go around killing people? Is it because the 'majority' decided you can't? hmm....

No, it's not a good point. The only reason the focus is Christianity is because that is the dominant religion in most of the countries people in this board lives. It's not however, any more (or less) absurd than any other religion, minor or major - it's just the one that is being annoying around us.

Should suddenly everybody here convert to Zoroastrianism, it would be Zoroastro, not Christ, the focus of similar discussion.

Edit: And Nick, it's exactly because of the majority agreed, after a long run of bad experiences, that killing should be banned, that people don't kill people. This agreement on the obvious is even the reason why it is on the Bible, the bible, being, after all, no more than a collection of anecdotes and of standard rules of behavior - so no, not even Christians think that because of God, even though they believe they do.

Regards .

 

[Swedishguy]

And those few who thinks Jesus is BS? (Like, say, me?)

 

[CenturionV]

Wow weird I started reading this thread and my playlist shuffled randomely to "jesus walks"

Maybe the reason everyone knows about this guy, billions follow to some degree or another what he preached, and he has lasted thousands of years is because its the truth? It doesn't take a lot of faith when you look at the facts....

 

[punkbass2000]

I'm sorry to say that popular belief that something is true doesn't make it true.

This is not a point we're ready to take up.

 

[punkbass2000]

Wheres the link between the objective reality around us, and the concepts of 'good' and 'evil' in our human reality?

"Good" and "evil" are created by those who believe in them.

Or something more mundane than that: the amazing value we put on certain types of rocks because theyre shiny. Or the link between politics and reality? Gold is only valuable because humans happen to like shiny things. The only place where Democracy and Communism exist is in our minds, but humans think all of these things are important enough to kill one another for, in huge numbers.

Exactly. Things are valuable because we believe they are.

 

[punkbass2000]

Yeah, if there's no god then there's no "rules" so why can't we just go around killing people?

There are no rules. Every rule you follow is created and enforced by you and society.

 

[punkbass2000]

Nope. Jesus was the Son of God, even before He was born on Earth.

We are all God's children.

 

[punkbass2000]

Maybe the reason everyone knows about this guy, billions follow to some degree or another what he preached, and he has lasted thousands of years is because its the truth? It doesn't take a lot of faith when you look at the facts....

Also true for Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed...

 

[zenspiderz]

If jesus were alive today took part in an election and won then he would be in office for all of five minutes before the CIA or similar gangsters put a bullet in him. In short he'd be crucified all over again.