Yes, I agree that would be a better system, but it would be awfully hard to implement since it would require near-constant monitoring of employees. Therefore they just take data from past experiences and make generalizations on what men and women should be paid. It sucks, but it's not really spiteful discrimination either.
The "Weaker" Sex
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Yes, I agree that would be a better system, but it would be awfully hard to implement since it would require near-constant monitoring of employees. Therefore they just take data from past experiences and make generalizations on what men and women should be paid. It sucks, but it's not really spiteful discrimination either.
I'm just using rights as a general term for the way one is treated.
Floating Pants
Drunk on Life
EDIT: Nevermind, it's not on topic, and not worth it.
Commodore said:
I am fully agreed on the Military aspect, especially combat roles, men are definitely more physically capable and I won't even argue about whether or not having women present will cause negative effects, because regardless of trained discipline, you can't override learned instincts and behaviour, but as I mentioned in the OP, how does men being more qualified in the army and other physical roles, warranting them more pay perhaps in those situation, justify basing compensation on that for something completely unrelated?
For instance, the workplace my friend is in and the jobs in particular are managerial, so do you think it's in all kinds of jobs that women would be more costly and less beneficial? Are men really that much better than women?
And on the black people/women issue, racism and sexism may not be such huge influencing factors as they were in the past, but their effects still linger, regardless of whether they are being proactively practiced. And as for blacks being more successful, society has always been patriarch/male-dominated, so isn't it easier for liberated black men to incorportate and advance themselves into this kind of society than it would be for liberated women?
And since there are more men than women on all these lists being discussed, do you think this is because men in general are more capable/ambitious/intellectual? If not, then what do you think causes such proportional differences?
aronnax
Let your spirit be free
Is it that hard? Quarterly reports, peer reviews, regular testing, who gets the most people across in a day without failure. Isn't that basically the job of Human Resources?
It's not unusual for a supervisor to monitor the performance of employees and notice if someone habitually takes long breaks and doesn't work as hard as others. Even if the majority of women don't work as hard in this job it's unfair to penalize those that do.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
I think your demonstration that despite African Americans' "liberation" the whites still outnumber them in number of scientists is very salient. Kind of puts to rest that arrant trash about women not succeeding because they "aren't doing as much with their liberation" as the African Americans.
I mean, nevermind the fact that women have been oppressed systematically for millenia, a black dude invented peanut butter after slavery was ended*!
*Note: ending of slavery may not actually be ending of oppression, certain restrictions apply, results may vary.
I hope I didnt wake you up from laughing so hard at this post.
A long standing philosophy of mine has been that men are not superior to women, but they are very vey different. Men, I believe are better for leadership roles just because they do seem to have more ambition than the average woman. Women however, are better suited for professions like psychiatrist since women seem to better understand the human condition and the myriad issues it can cause. Now of course there are examples that contradict the generalzations I just made, but when applying standard policies for society in general, generalizations are all we really have to go on.
As for the bigotry issue: Like I pointed out, most of the people on the lists did what they did while racist policies were still in full effect. What I was trying to point out with the black example was that discrimination can be overcome and can be a barrier to advancement, but not a barrier to achievement. Women just don't seem as willing to try to overcome the barriers. This is evidenced by the fact that there are organizations out there specifically dedicated to convince young women to get into the sciences, yet their enrollment in such studies has not significantly increased. The studies also show that the supposed barriers in society have only a negligable effect on women and they largely choose to not study the sciences.
DJ Bonebraker
a.k.a Laura
Funny, because I did six years in the US Navy, and I was even in an integrated recruit training division at boot camp, and based on my personal observations, the female recruits and sailors were just as capable at their jobs as the males, in fact, in certain situations (such as handing cramped shipboard conditions), they were more capable.
Simple solution for that: Just create all-female units (or as I like to think of them "Amazon Brigades"), that eliminates that problem rather nicely.
...Spoken like a true member of the knuckle-dragger's union! (Local 250)
Funny, because I did six years in the US Navy, and I was even in an integrated recruit training division at boot camp, and based on my personal observations, the female recruits and sailors were just as capable at their jobs as the males, in fact, in certain situations (such as handing cramped shipboard conditions), they were more capable.
Simple solution for that: Just create all-female units (or as I like to think of them "Amazon Brigades"), that eliminates that problem rather nicely.
...Spoken like a true member of the knuckle-dragger's union! (Local 250)
The Navy operates a lot differently from the Army. I'm not saying the Navy is easier, just that women seem to integrate better into the Navy than they do the Army.
I'm not speaking as a knuckle-dragger. Just look at our social conventions and you can see that men get a lot more crap shoveled on them than women. Not to mention that a woman can more or less say or do whatever she wants to a man, but as soon as the man tries to retaliate in self-defense (whether verbal or physical), he is branded a monster. Have a female coworker sexually harrass a man and see how seriously his complaint will be taken. Also, just look at how divorces are handled. Unless there is a prenuptual agreement or the husband can prove that the wife knowingly, and willingly sabotaged the marriage, the woman is heavily favored. Fathers also have considerably lesser parental rights when compared to mothers. There also seems to be a growing social norm that in a romantic relationship, the woman's feelings are somehow more important than the man's. The man is the one who is expected to sacrifice and go without for the sake of making his woman happy.
It is my strong belief that women are taught that they can do whatever they want in society with almost no consequences and that somehow what they want overrides what a man wants. Women are heavily favored in our society, so I consider them getting paid a little less than men a forgivable offense.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
He has a point with emotional stress and maternity leave, but not much else.
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