The Wonder Thread.

Do we know how great people work? Great artist/musician as we know, can make great works.

How about great engineer insta-wonder? To me it's unrealistic. I prefer GE to extremely boost production of a city or boost wonder production by 200% or something when used. As long as it's not instant 950 production.
 
Do we know how great people work? Great artist/musician as we know, can make great works.

How about great engineer insta-wonder? To me it's unrealistic. I prefer GE to extremely boost production of a city or boost wonder production by 200% or something when used. As long as it's not instant 950 production.

Personally I think the GE having the insta-wonder ability makes more sense in this game than in previous editions due to the nature of the Builder unit. It essentially makes the GE a "super builder" that can rush projects instead of improvements.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the GE is revamped to have charges itself, that can be spent on buildings/wonders - I always hated that I couldn't split up the huge burst of hammers into good number of smaller builds. It meant the only choice was wonders.

What if instead you could Rush a wonder or build a few buildings.

So, for example - Hanging Gardens costs 180 production, and a Shrine, monument, and granary are all 50 production. If a GE had 3 charges of 60 production to spend on build items, you could either rush the wonder, or build those three buildings in 1 or multiple cities. Or any combination thereof; you could finish the wonder but still be able to build 1 other building, etc.
 
Personally I think the GE having the insta-wonder ability makes more sense in this game than in previous editions due to the nature of the Builder unit. It essentially makes the GE a "super builder" that can rush projects instead of improvements.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the GE is revamped to have charges itself, that can be spent on buildings/wonders - I always hated that I couldn't split up the huge burst of hammers into good number of smaller builds. It meant the only choice was wonders.

What if instead you could Rush a wonder or build a few buildings.

So, for example - Hanging Gardens costs 180 production, and a Shrine, monument, and granary are all 50 production. If a GE had 3 charges of 60 production to spend on build items, you could either rush the wonder, or build those three buildings in 1 or multiple cities. Or any combination thereof; you could finish the wonder but still be able to build 1 other building, etc.

Good point.
 
But anyone knows how the national wonders work? I remember something like every civ is gonna have a unique Wonder but i also noticed now they are called with the civ name too...(like colosseum of rome, pyramids of giza etc)
So will we have like a general wonder like a generic pyramid with a unique pyramid just for egypt? Or 1 common pyramid but if built by egypt it gets more powerful and called pyramid of gyza?
 
Moai statues are better served as a tile improvement, but if they're made into a wonder this time around, yeah fine. The Forbidden Palace as a unique wonder for Mongolia doesn't really make sense to me though. Is it not distinctly Chinese?

That being said, that'd be one each. Civs like France or America have a whole bunch of Wonders they'd be able to use in a system like that.

I think you're misunderstanding the new way civ handles things like The Great Wall or Sphinxes (or like Moai Statues from IV). They're not considered wonders. National Wonders a different thing entirely.
 
Moai statues are better served as a tile improvement, but if they're made into a wonder this time around, yeah fine. The Forbidden Palace as a unique wonder for Mongolia doesn't really make sense to me though. Is it not distinctly Chinese?

That being said, that'd be one each. Civs like France or America have a whole bunch of Wonders they'd be able to use in a system like that.

I think you're misunderstanding the new way civ handles things like The Great Wall or Sphinxes (or like Moai Statues from IV). They're not considered wonders. National Wonders a different thing entirely.

The Mongols built it under Kublai Khan. The Chinese built over top of it when they retook the city in the late 14th century.
 
I believe every civ having a wonder was speculation. I'm not sure what it was based on, but Ed's explanation of the uniques, plus the list of American uniques disproves it.

World wonders work like in past games in the sense that any civ can build it (if they fulfill the proper requirements) and only one can be built in the world.
 
The Mongols built it under Kublai Khan. The Chinese built over top of it when they retook the city in the late 14th century.

But as I understand it, the Forbidden Palace/City as represented the Civ Games is the one that was built by the Chinese.

It sounds like a suggestion that the Empire State Building is an Algonquin city because of geographic location. But you might know something I don't, I'm not very well read.
 
But as I understand it, the Forbidden Palace/City as represented the Civ Games is the one that was built by the Chinese.

It sounds like a suggestion that the Empire State Building is an Algonquin city because of geographic location. But you might know something I don't, I'm not very well read.

Your analogy falls a little short. The Algonquins never conquered the Americans and then built a magnificent skyscraper only to have the Americans re-conquer the city and build the Empire State Building on top of it. :D

Chinese nationalism as well as the Communist leadership tends to de-emphasize the Mongol achievements but perhaps that is slowly changing. They've actually very recently found remains of Kublai Khan's Palace so we'll see what comes out of that.

Kublai Khan’s Mythical Great Palace Foundations Found

June 14, 2016. “In Xandu did Cublai Can build a stately Pallace, encompassing sixteen miles of plaine ground with a wall, wherein are fertile Meddowes, pleasant Springs, delightfull streames, and all sorts of beasts of chase and game, and in the middest thereof a sumptuous house of pleasure, which may be moved from place to place.” Samuel Purchas, “Purchas his Pilgrimes”, 1625.

The wonders of the Great Palace of Kublai Khan, as described in the 13th century tales of the Venetian traveler Marco Polo, have inspired much romantic writing on Asia, from Samuel Purchas’ 1625 description of Xandu above to the opium-dream-founded “stately pleasure dome” of Samuel Taylor Coleridge’s Kubla Khan, “A savage place! as holy and enchanted, As e’er beneath a waning moon was haunted, By woman wailing for her demon-lover!”

Chinese cultural authorities announced that the foundations of the Yuan Dynasty (1279 to 1368) palace of Kublai Khan, thought for centuries to be located north of Beijing, were unexpectedly discovered beneath Beijing’s Forbidden City during excavations to upgrade the Forbidden City’s outmoded underground power and fire-extinguishing systems. The crew repairing utilities found a 3 meter thick rammed earth and rubble foundation buried beneath Ming and Qing dynasty construction.

Institute of Archaeology deputy director Wang Guangyao reported that the foundations are similarly constructed to known Yuan foundations in the ruins of Zhongdu. Their size could support a great hall as large as that described by Marco Polo, which he said capable of holding 6,000 people for a dinner.

Polo described the Summer Palace as “the greatest that ever was”:

“It is gilt all over, and most elaborately finished inside. It is stayed on gilt and lackered columns, on each of which is a dragon all gilt, the tail of which is attached to the column whilst the head supports the architrave, and the claws likewise are stretched out right and left to support the architrave. The roof, like the rest, is formed of canes, covered with a varnish so strong and excellent that no amount of rain will rot them. These canes are a good 3 palms in girth, and from 10 to 15 paces in length. They are cut across at each knot, and then the pieces are split so as to form from each two hollow tiles, and with these the house is roofed; only every such tile of cane has to be nailed down to prevent the wind from lifting it. In short, the whole Palace is built of these canes, which (I may mention) serve also for a great variety of other useful purposes. The construction of the Palace is so devised that it can be taken down and put up again with great celerity; and it can all be taken to pieces and removed whithersoever the Emperor may command. When erected, it is braced against mishaps from the wind by more than 200 cords of silk.”

Forbidden City officials say that further excavation will be difficult and probably sporadic, since the building above the site is also an historical monument. In the past, Chinese officials have tended to de-emphasize the Yuan rulers and their culture as a non-Chinese aberration, but the discovery certainly establishes a powerful continuity between the Yuan and the Ming and Qing. The Yuan Palace may also lie along the Central Axis of Beijing, believed by some Chinese to be the city’s “sacred backbone.” Further excavation will be required to determine whether the Yuan Palace will be included along that axis with the Forbidden City, the Temple of Heaven and Zhongnanhai, the Communist Party leadership compound.

http://committeeforculturalpolicy.org/kublai-khans-mythical-great-palace-foundations-found/
 
But say the Algonquins did build a massive skyscraper. The Algonquin Tower let's say. And say America came on over and knocked it down and built The Empire State Building in its place. Is the Empire State Building the Algonquin Tower? Is the Algonquin Tower the Empire State?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to diminish the achievements of the Khanate or the Mongolians or anyone, I'm just saying I'm not sure it's accurate to suggest the Chinese-built Forbidden Palace is a Mongolian Achievement. Perhaps it's like calling the Colisseum an Italian achievement.
 
But say the Algonquins did build a massive skyscraper. The Algonquin Tower let's say. And say America came on over and knocked it down and built The Empire State Building in its place. Is the Empire State Building the Algonquin Tower? Is the Algonquin Tower the Empire State?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to diminish the achievements of the Khanate or the Mongolians or anyone, I'm just saying I'm not sure it's accurate to suggest the Chinese-built Forbidden Palace is a Mongolian Achievement. Perhaps it's like calling the Colisseum an Italian achievement.

Meh. The Chinese got the idea for a huge palatial complex from the Mongols and built over top of it. The reason it was called Forbidden in the first place was so that the Mongols could rule from it, essentially walled off from Chinese society. It was essentially a city within a city and common people were forbidden from entering it.

Therefore, the Mongols built the Palace complex, really a city within a city and gave the adjective "Forbidden" to it.
 
Meh. The Chinese got the idea for a huge palatial complex from the Mongols and built over top of it. The reason it was called Forbidden in the first place was so that the Mongols could rule from it, essentially walled off from Chinese society. It was essentially a city within a city and common people were forbidden from entering it.

Therefore, the Mongols built the Palace complex, really a city within a city and gave the adjective "Forbidden" to it.
What? Those points don't follow. If I take over your palace, tear it down, and build a new palace, it's not your achievement.
 
What? Those points don't follow. If I take over your palace, tear it down, and build a new palace, it's not your achievement.

The original Forbidden City and Palace were built by the Mongols. The Chinese built an imitation. They can call it the Forbidden City if they want but it's not the original. That's all I'm saying. :)

So, you could justifiably have the Forbidden Palace as a Mongol Wonder in Civ VI, especially if Kublai Khan is the Mongol leader. Conversely, you could have it as a general Wonder.
 
I mean if the Forbidden City in Civ was presented as the Mongolian Forbidden city, then yea sure it'd make sense for a Mongolian Unique Wonder. But the art depicts the Chinese Forbidden City. So...

Moot point either way because in terms of this particular conversation, there are no Civ Specific Unique Wonders :)

Wait was the Mongolian Forbidden City Xanadu? It's been a long time since my sixth grade project on Kublai Khan
 
I mean if the Forbidden City in Civ was presented as the Mongolian Forbidden city, then yea sure it'd make sense for a Mongolian Unique Wonder. But the art depicts the Chinese Forbidden City. So...

Moot point either way because in terms of this particular conversation, there are no Civ Specific Unique Wonders :)

Wait was the Mongolian Forbidden City Xanadu? It's been a long time since my sixth grade project on Kublai Khan

They could certainly change the art for Civ VI. :)

As for Civ specific Wonders, the Great Wall of China will be Chinese in Civ VI.

Xanadu was Kublai Khan's original capital until he moved it to modern day Beijing, where he built the Forbidden City and Xanadu became his summer capital. Modern name is Shangdu. :)

Whatever, the case, I do hope that the Mongols are in the game and I am kind of hoping that Kublai Khan is their leader. Hoping for multiple leaders for each Civ, as well. :D
 
They could certainly change the art for Civ VI. :)

As for Civ specific Wonders, the Great Wall of China will be Chinese in Civ VI.

Xanadu was Kublai Khan's original capital until he moved it to modern day Beijing, where he built the Forbidden City and Xanadu became his summer capital. Modern name is Shangdu. :)

Whatever, the case, I do hope that the Mongols are in the game and I am kind of hoping that Kublai Khan is their leader. Hoping for multiple leaders for each Civ, as well. :D

I mean this is really about Wonder-wonders. One per game kind of wonders. The Sphinxes/Great Wall aren't one per game, so for the sake of the conversation, & especially Civ VI, I'd say they wouldn't count.

Anyhow, I'd say Xanadu would be a much better candidate for a Mongolian Wonder. Helps avoid any Beijing-based confusion, and it's much much more well known among dumb dumb westerners such as myself. Or maybe something else. Point being I'm confident Civ has a potential Mongolian wonder that's a lot more uniquely Mongolian than the ruins 15 feet under the Chinese Forbidden city.
 
Anyhow, I'd say Xanadu would be a much better candidate for a Mongolian Wonder. Helps avoid any Beijing-based confusion, and it's much much more well known among dumb dumb westerners such as myself. Or maybe something else. Point being I'm confident Civ has a potential Mongolian wonder that's a lot more uniquely Mongolian than the ruins 15 feet under the Chinese Forbidden city.

I probably miss something, but I don't think we'll have any civilization-specific wonders. It just don't make any real sense.
 
I probably miss something, but I don't think we'll have any civilization-specific wonders. It just don't make any real sense.

Sorry, I mean a Mongolian wonder as in a wonder that Mongolia built in real life, not a wonder that only Mongolia can build in civ.
 
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