The Wonder Thread.

[Ikael]

A general observation I have is that it appears most or all wonders (or at least the early ones) have fairly specific requirements.
This could make it possible even on the highest difficulty level to actually build a couple by default (e.g. you are the only player who could actually build it and so the AI couldn't use its production handicap to shut you out of all of them.)

That would suck so, so very much I still defend that a hefty production bonus would be far more strategically deep than a mere "hard condition" for building the wonder.

 

[Plus Ultra]

You won't be able to build all your wonders in your capital anyway, so you'll just need to place new cities with these restrictions in mind. It's really not a problem.

Placing new cities with these restrictions in mind could be easy... or impossible, based on the terrain available close to your capital. You can always send a settler to far away lands, of course, but that would be a radical change to how we play, with disconnected cities acting as specialized independent hubs all spread through the map.

I might be overthinking or overestimating how hard/soft terrain restrictions change how we play the game. There is only one way to know for sure, and we have to wait until October for that, may god have mercy on our souls.

That would suck so, so very much I still defend that a hefty production bonus would be far more strategically deep than a mere "hard condition" for building the wonder.

Agreed. I honestly was expecting "hard restrictions" to be very rare (like in Civ V), with production bonuses being the norm, working in the same way as Eurekas and Districts bonuses to favour those that adapt to the terrain without reducing player agency.

Anyway, I'm sure there is lot's of balancing and thought behind this decision, so let's wait and see how it impacts the game, It might end up being a good thing.

 

[Felis Renidens]

I don't think those restrictions will be that hard. You may have to plan how to expand and may have _some_ wonders in each game that you won't be able to build (like in CiV I can't always build petra). In some ways those are less harsh - you only need one tile in your city radius to fulfill the requirements, no more 'a mountain within 2 hex distance'. If I have a mountain near my city I'll probably have at least 3 hexes near it. If the city is on a river I'll have a lot of suitable land.

Only real restriction is that with wonders taking tiles not everyone will be able to build everything.

 

[chaosprophet]

Anyway, I'm sure there is lot's of balancing and thought behind this decision, so let's wait and see how it impacts the game, It might end up being a good thing.

The thoughts behind it are likely what they already said, they want every playthrought to be different by using the terrain, so you decide what to do each time depending on what you got, using the terrain to your favor. This limits to wonder building seems to work together with that idea. Otherwise it's quite easier for someone to create their plan of choice regarding what wonders to get in what order and redo that everytime.

So the game wants the players to adapt to their situation and surroundings.

 

[George Abitbol]

For example, if I want to build a strong navy, the Venetian arsenal seems like a must. To create the venetian arsenal, I need a free tile near the coast, which needs to be attached to an industrial district. Now, the industrial district has a bonus for being attached to (for example) woodlands, so I need that too. Since I'm already using a tile for the industrial district, I might as well consider that my production-focused city, and build there all the building that increase production. Those buildings have bonuses for certain strategic resources, so I need to make sure at least some of them are near too... etc.

I think they took the right way (Wonders by district, restriction from terrains,etc), but I have some fears how the AI will be able to manage this. Will the computer calculate the good location with all these factors when the settler will be out?

We need cliff-related wonders

 

[Gali]

Well they did say the Computer does some long term planning. They could program it to value wonders based on its victory plan and attempt to make sure it has the terrain necessary in its territory by the time it unlocks the wonder.

They have to give the AI more long term decision making based on the new cities and eureka bonuses. The AI will not be amazing on release. The question is whether the developers give the modders tools to improve it and update it based on game info. Even Civ 4's AI wasn't all that great at release.

 

[AriochIV]

I don't think those restrictions will be that hard. You may have to plan how to expand and may have _some_ wonders in each game that you won't be able to build (like in CiV I can't always build petra). In some ways those are less harsh - you only need one tile in your city radius to fulfill the requirements, no more 'a mountain within 2 hex distance'. If I have a mountain near my city I'll probably have at least 3 hexes near it. If the city is on a river I'll have a lot of suitable land.

Only real restriction is that with wonders taking tiles not everyone will be able to build everything.

Yes, you may have to build different wonders in different games. Boo hoo.

 

[Felis Renidens]

Yes, you may have to build different wonders in different games. Boo hoo.

While I'm not too sorry about it, building all the wonders in one game was something I liked to do. There is still hope for it but it will require more planning and more luck. Well, I'll be happier when I do manage it.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I don't really see the restrictions as that much of a big deal. Stonehenge and Pyramids seem most restrictive, the Mahabodi can be planned for and there are plenty of hills on a map. There's plenty of wonders to choose from, and you won't be able to build as many as in other Civ games due to the space requirement.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Basically, it will be nice to build Wonders if you can manage the pre-reqs, but don't let your victory strategy hinge on it.

 

[chaosprophet]

While I'm not too sorry about it, building all the wonders in one game was something I liked to do. There is still hope for it but it will require more planning and more luck. Well, I'll be happier when I do manage it.

That seems to be impossible on practice now, even on the lowest difficult. And at least with 7 or so other civs in the game. Maybe if you make a custom map for that purpose with a fixed start and all the tiles and resources you need for each wonder near you.

 

[stealth_nsk]

While I'm not too sorry about it, building all the wonders in one game was something I liked to do. There is still hope for it but it will require more planning and more luck. Well, I'll be happier when I do manage it.

On first difficulty level it could be still possible. Just build enough cities and cover different terrains.

 

[chaosprophet]

On first difficulty level it could be still possible. Just build enough cities and cover different terrains.

You may need to restart a few times so you at least start with a city that can build all the earlier ones.

 

[Felis Renidens]

That seems to be impossible on practice now, even on the lowest difficult. And at least with 7 or so other civs in the game. Maybe if you make a custom map for that purpose with a fixed start and all the tiles and resources you need for each wonder near you.

We will see. I play at low difficulty so I hope it's a matter of getting the right conditions (maybe getting china so I can rush the early ones and than be ahead technologically which will help with the rest). And I don't know how many civs will be on normal sized map, what will be the wonder focus of different AIs. Unlike 1-4 it will not be a common thing to have all wonders on low difficulty. I wouldn't say impossible until I played the game enough times.

 

[qadams]

I would have liked it much better if terrain would offer production bonuses towards certain wonders, rather than being a hard condition of YES / NO. That way you could still have more options (more possible wonders to build) but they would be far more risky (more people competing for them, and wide empires beating you to certain wonders due to having more ideal situation for them).

^^^ This! If the initially released game will not offer such a logical and reasonable amount of flexibility, it should be a high priority for modding.

 

[stealth_nsk]

You may need to restart a few times so you at least start with a city that can build all the earlier ones.

Building all early wonders in 1 city is bad idea. You need to spawn a settler first to continue expansion while you build Wonders. However, on lowest levels it's likely settler could be taken from goody huts.

 

[MrRadar]

Do you think it would be possible to steal Wonders via land steal? (sorry if this has already been discussed elsewhere)

Now, that Wonders will have their specific tiles, and if something like GG-into-citadel bombing is kept in the game, it could happen, that somebody builds a juicy Wonder just over the border. Send a general to check the marking of the frontier, oops, the border signs were completely misplaced, it is clearly our land, sorry!

And what about the thing, if Space victory is hinged on launching the Spaceship from a specific launching pad, and this launching pad also happens to sit not far from the border - a few Great Generals or similar, lo and behold, we have their launching pad with the Spaceship all ready to take off! So what happens now?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm also curious about tile flipping. It's pretty clear you can only build one district of each type per city. What happens if you flip a tile and gain a second Holy Site or whatever? Not to mention Wonders.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'm guessing Districts+Wonders would be immune to land steal (if it is in) to prevent that problem.

Wonders might not need to be immune, but if Districts are not immune they would probably have to be destroyed.

 

[ftl]

Or tile stealing isn't in at all...