"They Died For Your Right To..."

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sidenote, not actually responding on the OP's question.

I actually like that story, but probably not for the reasons the one who dreamt it up had in mind. Human acts, but places responsibility on god. The Navy SEAL justifies knocking a professor down because 'god sent him' and he is supposed to be the 'hero' in this story.

Quite odd.

 

[RameNoodle]

And yet, should we be like this man?
Hannity and Colmes... Yay!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yikes, not Balky from Perfect Strangers again

 

[Paradigne]

Soldiers kill people, that's a fact, Jack!

So you think a soldier killing in a war is the same as a man killing for "insert reason here" is the same???

 

[Syterion]

Anyway, your chain email example sucks - the SEAL had no more moral authority to knock the professor down than any other theist in the room. He could have just as easily been a born-again bodybuilder, or he could just have readily sat down with the comment "The Lord works in mysterious ways" instead of his "God is busy..." crack.

This is exactly what I was expecting, a retort that God did knock him off. Instead I got some stupid irrelevant free-speech stuff?

Look, if the military is defending us from someone who invaded us, they are protecting us. But its more like protecting our right to live, not our right to free speech. And if we invade somewhere else, we're obviously not defending anybody's rights.

 

[sysyphus]

It's called loyalty. You obviously have no concept of it. It's one of those "intangible things."

How is ensuring that soldiers only give their life to a worthy cause considered unloyal? What's so "loyal" about treating a soldier's life as expendable?

 

[batteryacid]

nice little story

I had to serve in the army (well, my country has not been at war with someone since WW2) and I have to say that most personnel there had a mentality I really dislike: Ignoring a contraditory opinion, having no common sense, exploiting their authority, having fascist tendencies etc. This and the fact that most state coups were done by milita is enough for me to have a not too high opinion about them.

Since WW2 I think no US soldier has fought against a threat to the own country and people.They had to join military campaigns their politicians thought to be useful for securing or expanding (internally and externally) their basis of power, so I would say the "They died for your right too..." sentence is only in use to escape from loosing a discussion.

 

[CaptainF]

So you think a soldier killing in a war is the same as a man killing for "insert reason here" is the same???

Sure, why not. It all looks the same to the coroner now don't it?

 

[CaptainF]

And yet, should we be like this man?
Hannity and Colmes... Yay!

BOO Sean Hannity.

One of two of televisions big blubbering vaginas.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

How is ensuring that soldiers only give their life to a worthy cause considered unloyal? What's so "loyal" about treating a soldier's life as expendable?

Soldiers sign up for the United States miltary to fight, and if the need be, die, for their country. If they have a problem with that, they ought not join. If you get drafted and you're too cowardly to do just the same when your country calls on you, then go and run to Canada, because we don't want you in it.
A soldier doesn't have the luxury of being able to look at a situation and think about whether he is doing what you consider "the right thing," he is the method with which the government carries out it foreign policy. His loyalty is to the United States, and thus when she tells him to do something, it is not his place to question it, only to obey. He has to accept that those above him know better, and that they are having him do that task because it needs to be done, no matter how arbitrary or pointless it might seem.
I'm positive that makes no sense to you. You obviously have no sense of loyalty, you're that kind of person that goes around questioning everything, and those kind of people just don't understand this kind of thing.

 

[sysyphus]

If you get drafted and you're too cowardly to do just the same when your country calls on you, then go and run to Canada, because we don't want you in it.

Don't have to, I was born here.

Besdies, I'm not talking about subordination of soldiers to their superiors, understood that a solder must do as commanded. What I am talking about (and generally the topic of the thread) is the duty of the civilian population to ensure their soldiers are not sent risk their lives without a good reason.

If you get drafted and you oppose the war on moral grounds, that does not make one a coward. I'm sure many of the Vietnam draft dodgers would have willingly gone to fight in WWII.

 

[RedWolf]

He has to accept that those above him know better, and that they are having him do that task because it needs to be done, no matter how arbitrary or pointless it might seem.
I'm positive that makes no sense to you. You obviously have no sense of loyalty, you're that kind of person that goes around questioning everything, and those kind of people just don't understand this kind of thing.

We understand that he has to accept all of those things - on this we are in agreement - but it still doesn't make it smart or even right. There are few more important things in life then killing and dieing... so why would I want to shut my brain off and do either of those things without thinking about whether the price is worth the end result?

On the topic of loyalty - You are erroneously linking "loyalty" with blind obedience. If they truly are one and the same then screw loyalty... What good is it really? Mindless trust in givernment is what causes people to do terrible things to one another in times of conflict - they were being loyal as well.

Do you see the irony in condemning him for being a "the kind of person that goes around questioning everything?"... Truly - those are some of the smartest people in the world. Why is it something to be ashamed of? If the world had more of them we'd be a lot better off.

 

[mdwh]

It's called loyalty. You obviously have no concept of it. It's one of those "intangible things."

You appear to be using a different definition of "loyal" to the rest of us.

If one is loyal to a cause, but one particular thing is deemed unworthy (as sysyphus stated), then clearly, loyalty does not require one to do that particular thing.

 

[mdwh]

Soldiers sign up for the United States miltary to fight, and if the need be, die, for their country. If they have a problem with that, they ought not join. If you get drafted and you're too cowardly to do just the same when your country calls on you, then go and run to Canada, because we don't want you in it.

We're not talking about the soldier, but someone else ("But what respect does one show a soldier"). This person has not signed up to any such thing,.

Your comment about being drafted doesn't make sense - who said anything about being cowardly? (Given the consequences of avoiding the draft, I'd say it's quite brave, anyway.) Drafted means you don't have a choice whether to join, so your argument doesn't apply.

As for leaving for Canada, I doubt you speak for all Americans (thankfully).

And being loyal to a country is an entirely different thing to what you are arguing for - loyalty to the Government.

 

[malclave]

This is exactly what I was expecting, a retort that God did knock him off. Instead I got some stupid irrelevant free-speech stuff?

Usually, in my experience, the joke ends with "God was busy, so He sent me."

 

[nihilistic]

Let's just use very very basic logic:

Premises:
A. Soldiers sacrificed for my freedom to protest.
B. It is because of the soldiers' sacrifice that I should not be allowed to protest.

Would this not follow to the obvious conclusion that:
C. Soldiers died for nothing.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Let's just use very very basic logic:

Premises:
A. Soldiers sacrificed for my freedom to protest.
B. It is because of the soldiers' sacrifice that I should not be allowed to protest.

Would this not follow to the obvious conclusion that:
C. Soldiers died for nothing.

Who said you can't protest? This joke doesn't say that the guy can't protest anything, it doesn't even touch on that. It's more of a bash against atheists.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Who said you can't protest? This joke doesn't say that the guy can't protest anything, it doesn't even touch on that. It's more of a bash against atheists.

And a very poor one at that. One that needs a god that's too busy and a christian soldier using excessive force in his name.

 

[nonconformist]

Oh, I got one of these emails too:

As some of you might know, I'm a Roman Catholic, and my brother happens to be a cardinal (and he entered his 30th year of service this year).
As is traditional, after long service a cardinal is invited, along with his immediate family and siblings (no children or wife, obviously) to the Vatican City for an audience with the Pope.
Now I'm not the religious type (hell, I lost my religion back in 'Nam. Sleeping in a tent made from ten skinned Viet-Cong, and feeding on the eyeballs of your superiors for threee years will do that).
Anyways, we arrive in the Vatican, me in my ol' service dress, still bloodstained where my legs got blown off, but stuck back on with a bit of good old United States Chewing Gum, my bro in his cardinal skirt, and ma ma and pops teary at the eyes and proud.
Anyways, we enter this big ol' church thing, and lo and behold, there is the Pope.
Now I don't speak too good Italian, or Latin, so my bro had to translate.
Anyways, this old Pope starts talking, and my bro fills us in;
"Welcome my Children, I pray you are always safe. Now let us pray, to ward away Satan".
So my bro gets down to his knees, my pops and ma too, and this old Pope starts chanting away in Latin.
This goes on for what, ten, fifteen minutes?
At that point, I walk up to this Pope, lamp him in the face, and watch him crumble.
When he finally comes to he asks, in Latin "why?"
And I answer "Satan's busy, he sent me".

 

[Lotus49]

It's simply this; this is a time of change, uncertainty and volatility - and there's a lot of soft-hearted, simple-minded people out there that are 'having trouble'.

Ironic, that - if you actually do have faith (as they claim/cling to), then nothing shakes your peace, and you can continue on every day without acting silly, hysterical and insecure.

I'm not sure exactly what's going on in the minds of most Americans today, but they need to get a grip. This whole country has just gotten way too soft, and peoples' skin has gotten incredibly thin... and there's plenty of 'special interest groups' (the real BANE of our country) that are quick to take advantage.

I don't get it. All I see is a bunch of stupidy, and hysteria. Why can't people go about their own business...