Thoughts on Chasqui Scout?

[robcheng]

Originally posted by Tacit_Exit
You could add a 1 point lethal land bombardment insted of A/D value.
Dunno if a 0/0/* unit would defensively bombard with this (probably only if stacked with a combat unit).

I'm pretty sure defensive bombardment only ever works if stacked with at least one other unit which has a non-zero defensive value. Otherwise, everything in the stack will be captured or destroyed when the enemy unit attacks the tile.

 

[Aggie]

The only problem with this UU (that I missed yesterday) is the price. It should not be twice as expensive... It is a huge issue, because you won't easily build a few early on just like you do with scouts. In a way it appears to partly wreck the expansionist trait.

 

[Gogf]

You can defend. Like Rob said eventually you may win.

So, when in combat, you don't use your offensive value? Otherwise, Rob's unit has no way of killing the attacker.

 

[warpstorm]

You can not initiate combat with Rob's proposed unit. It can defend using it's defensive value (0/1/1 ATAR).

 

[rdomarat]

Originally posted by Elek
Correct me if I'm wrong...but 20 shields just look daunting

Given the enslavement capabilities of the Chasqui Scout (to create MORE scouts), I think if used aggresively, these units will kick ass.

 

[gunnerxtr]

chasquis cant enslave that is the javilen thrower

 

[Bad Brett]

Originally posted by gunnerxtr
chasquis cant enslave that is the javilen thrower

I think he meant "if"...

 

[Gogf]

You can not initiate combat with Rob's proposed unit. It can defend using it's defensive value (0/1/1 ATAR).

No, that's not what I mean. Lets say a spearman attack it. 1 attack (spearman) fights 1 defence (Rob's unit), and 0 attack (Rob's unit) fights 2 defence. How would it ever kill a unit?

 

[Bad Brett]

Originally posted by Gogf


No, that's not what I mean. Lets say a spearman attack it. 1 attack (spearman) fights 1 defence (Rob's unit), and 0 attack (Rob's unit) fights 2 defence. How would it ever kill a unit?

What the heck are you talking about? If, let's say a spearman, is attacked, it doesn't matter if the spearman has 1 or 200 attack. The easiest way to see this is in civ 2, where the transport and galleon have 0 attack, but still is able to defend themselves and may very well sink a battleship.

...correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[robcheng]

Originally posted by Gogf


No, that's not what I mean. Lets say a spearman attack it. 1 attack (spearman) fights 1 defence (Rob's unit), and 0 attack (Rob's unit) fights 2 defence. How would it ever kill a unit?

That's not how it works. When unit X attacks unit Y, the values that are used are only the attack value of X and the defense value of Y. It's only when unit Y tries to attack another unit that the attack value of Y comes into play.

So in the case of my suggested Chasqui Scout unit with 0/1/1, it could fight if attacked with a combat value of 1 but it could never attack anything (you would get the same message that you get when you try to attack with a settler or worker)

You could also have a 1/0/1 unit that could attack normally with a combat value of 1, but would be automatically captured (if your enemy is capable of building that unit) or destroyed (if your enemy can't build that unit) when attacked by another unit with an attack value > 0.

Hope that clears things up.

 

[Bad Brett]

Yippiekayey! I was first!

 

[Gogf]

That's not how it works. When unit X attacks unit Y, the values that are used are only the attack value of X and the defense value of Y. It's only when unit Y tries to attack another unit that the attack value of Y comes into play.

So in the case of my suggested Chasqui Scout unit with 0/1/1, it could fight if attacked with a combat value of 1 but it could never attack anything (you would get the same message that you get when you try to attack with a settler or worker)

You could also have a 1/0/1 unit that could attack normally with a combat value of 1, but would be automatically captured (if your enemy is capable of building that unit) or destroyed (if your enemy can't build that unit) when attacked by another unit with an attack value > 0.

Hope that clears things up.

Yes, it does, thank you. Yet, I do remember hearing (in this thread) that defence was used in attack.

This makes you unit sound great. For 10 shields? That's a good deal. Great idea... Maybe I'll use it in a mod.

 

[Tweedledum]

What do I think of the Chasqui Scout?

It's useless. More than that, it's worse than useless.

Compare it to a JW: same stats (apart from an extra move in certain terrain only) but costs a lot more - so no CS rush possibility, which is one of (if the only) selling point of the JW

Compare it to a normal Scout: again, costs a lot more and how valuable are the A/D values for a Scout (it'll never pop barbarians from a hut, so does it need a defence value)...?

Bottom line: I'd rather have a normal Scout and no UU than this piece of ****

Edit: It's just occurred to me that I always play with sedentary barbs. On other settings the defence value might be more useful, but at twice the cost...?

 

[Louis XXIV]

opponents defense is a factor, not your own (your attack / Your attack + his Defense)

 

[warpstorm]

Originally posted by Tweedledum
It's just occurred to me that I always play with sedentary barbs. On other settings the defence value might be more useful, but at twice the cost...?

Actually, that reminds me of another good use for the Chasqui: barb hunter. Unlike a regular scout they can go from barb camp to barb camp getting the $25 each (and be on barb defense after they have explored your continent).

 

[Bad Brett]

Yeah... it's too bad barbarians don't trigger golden ages...

 

[Louis XXIV]

That might be a good thing (who would want a golden age with 1 city, when you can get one with 25 cities?)

 

[robcheng]

Originally posted by warpstorm


Actually, that reminds me of another good use for the Chasqui: barb hunter. Unlike a regular scout they can go from barb camp to barb camp getting the $25 each (and be on barb defense after they have explored your continent).

However, at it's current stats it's not as cost-effective a barb hunter as jag warriors -- the ignore hill/mountain move cost isn't so great (just play with the keshiks a few times if you don't believe me). Now if it were ignore forest/jungle/marsh instead, THAT might be worth it...

 

[Elek]

How's about this?

Chasqui Scout as is, but with 0 offense and 1 defense(or vice versa). 15 Shields.

 

[Tacit_Exit]

Originally posted by Elek
How's about this?
Chasqui Scout as is, but with 0 offense and 1 defense(or vice versa). 15 Shields.

Unless C3C changes this, its impossible to have a 15 cost unit (cost factor in an integer multiplied by ten gives shield cost).