Time to get rid of the Monarchy?
- Thread starter Samson
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Yes, generally the monarchs we consider good are modern "defanged" ones. When they were red in tooth and claw the choice was between the vicious and effective like William I or Edward I and the vicious but incompetent like John or Henry III.
Zardnaar
Deity
And English isn't his first language.
Kupe Navigator
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Oh he is way worse trust me.
He did nothing to help people when Seoul was flooded this August and in fact went to his home even when he saw a house being flooded
He moved away from Blue House ( Korean counterpart to White House) and is working in Yongsan for no good reason and wasting tax payer's money.
His appointments are usless and in fact his educational officer resigned just 5 months at how usless she is.
Is doing nothing but fighting with his former party leader.
EnglishEdward
Deity
It is actually quite confusing with "s" and "z".
For instance in the USA it is civilization, while in the UK it is civilisation.
And both Elizabeth and Elisabeth are used in the UK.
For instance in the USA it is civilization, while in the UK it is civilisation.
And both Elizabeth and Elisabeth are used in the UK.
Kupe Navigator
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Using google is a thing that ain't a excuse for a leader.
There is a reason his support is only at 30% at max
That is only a tip of his failure as human being.
Also take a look at this.
He has arrived at the victim of flooding and typoon. The victims are running a small restaurant and what does he do at first? LOOKING AT MOTHERBUCKING MENUS!
Kupe Navigator
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Are you Argentinian?
At least you don't have all your main TV channels devoted to it. Watch something else. I can assure you I'm not watching it.
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I understand perfectly. Even as Queen’s supporter the constant out pouring is starting to get old.
Pages' worth of posts... 
How-ever... I realized, when I took anthropology in college, that even though I personally don't believe in any deities or spirits, that religion has been a kind of "social glue" that's been around ever since the first humans were capable of abstract thought enough to wonder why things happened and to try to come up with explanations. The Neanderthals had religion; archaeology has found evidence of this.
So I'm not going to go around like some other atheists and say religion is terrible and should be eradicated because so many terrible things were done in its various names. Humans aren't ready to give it up yet. I don't know if our species ever will be.
Clearly we're also not ready to give up forms of government like monarchy. Real life isn't like a game of Civ; when we switch from Monarchy to whatever in the game, we don't tend to go back to it (though I did a couple of times in Test of Time, as my orbital cities were about to starve under that scenario's version of Republic and I hadn't gotten the tech needed to quell civil disorder).
I think in that moment, I decided that marriage was something I would never do. At least my dad valued my opinions, whether or not they agreed with his. And after my grandfather's death came many years of de-programming, of unlearning certain behaviors and thought patterns, and trying to understand why my grandfather thought as he did - and explain it to my mother, who had hated him because he pulled that patriarchy thing with her (something I hadn't known until she told me many years later, after my grandmother died). That's why I get so defensive and angry here sometimes, if someone's said something that triggers bad memories.
It just seems necessary to me. I have a personal connection to the patriarchy thing. It was part of my life, and so I get THT in ways that lots of other people don't.
You can find people making those arguments right now on the comment pages on the news site I read. And I've been told to my face that "I didn't know people like you were allowed to vote!" (referring to disabled people). Yes, we are. Yes, there is an entire section of the Elections Canada online manual that lays out how we can do it. But someone rewrote it at some point to deny people like me the right to a secret ballot. That's actually a Charter violation - discrimination on the basis of disability.
It just strikes me as really odd that people can say "Monarchy is horrible and should be eradicated everywhere and for all time and should never have existed" and then settle down to enjoy a movie about characters who are either monarchs or want to be monarchs or play games in which monarchy is something necessary to win.
About the closest I ever came to playing games to do with religion is a recent discovery on Steam of a game of Senet. That's Egyptian mythology - the journey of the dead person's soul to the underworld. When I play Civ, temples and cathedrals don't get built unless I have a severe civil disorder problem. The religion-based wonders get built for the points bonus. I care less if my people are happy than if they're literate and not starving, and tech advances chug along at a good clip.
I have never played any Civ higher than II, and at that, I prefer Test of Time, either the Midgard (fantasy scenario) or Lalande (science fiction version).
As mentioned, I go for tech, as fast as I can get it. I normally have the equivalent of Railroad and orbital shuttles before the calendar ticks over to the CE side. The thing about ToT is that there are factions that can research techs that you cannot research, and you either need to get the tech that allows you to communicate with them (a long way off), the Wonder that lets you get free tech if they've discovered it, or spies to steal it. That means keeping those factions alive until they discover the techs you need - so going on a rampage of killing is something you cannot do in those games unless it's the factions that don't have what you need.
So I might not have much respect for how a faction conducts itself, but I have to respect and push them to discover knowledge. Sometimes if they take too long or they're at imminent risk of death from barbarians, I will gift them technology to give them a boost and help them defend themselves. I can always kill them later, after I don't need them anymore.
And as you say, this doesn't mean I like warfare in real life. I don't like a lot of what the British monarchy presided over, even if they personally didn't go out and do stuff. The Queen herself did not personally haul indigenous children from their homes in the 1960s and sell them in black market adoptions to childless couples in the U.S. and Europe. She just happened to be Queen at the time this was done. The Sixties' Scoop is something that I just learned about a few years ago - it's not something that was ever taught in any social studies course in Canadian schools until recently.
I'm pretty sure nobody is ever going to opine that Charles feels like their "spiritual grandfather."
This attitude was exhibited by my grandfather during an election in the '80s, after Jim Keegstra was stripped of his teaching license for Holocaust denial and teaching his hatred of Jews to his high school social studies students. My grandfather was also anti-Jewish, and when Keegstra decided to run for the Social Credit party, my grandfather declared he intended to vote for him. Of course he assumed the rest of us would follow suit, and I told my grandmother, "Vote for who you want to. You don't have to vote the same way Grandad does" (I knew my grandmother wanted to vote NDP).
My grandfather was not pleased by this, and childishly said, "Well, my vote cancels yours!"
And then he really wasn't happy when I told him, "I'm voting NDP too - so it's two to one." And then my dad came in and it was three to one...
We all went to vote anyway. And of course the Conservative candidate won. That's how it's always been here federally. But at least I did get my grandmother to realize that she didn't have to obey my grandfather just because he said "jump." It took more work after he died to get her to realize that she did not need to carry on with the same criticisms of me that he used to do. I told her, "He's dead. You don't have to be him. Just stop."
But also, we are saturated with news and pop culture from the U.S. and much of it is baffling and appalling. We don't want that for ourselves, and staying with the constitutional monarchy for government and the Commonwealth is a way of helping to not be assimilated into the U.S.
Likewise, I'm not religious just because I've read the bible. And there are "bible drama" movies I enjoy; The Ten Commandments was an annual staple in my family for many years, even though nobody in my family was particularly religious (my grandmother might have been a bit; my grandfather definitely wasn't, and my dad would have gotten along great with Berzerker as he was into UFOs and ancient aliens). My grandmother was just a Charlton Heston fan, and finally convinced me to watch Ben-Hur as well. I enjoy it for the chariot race scene, which was an incredible feat of filmmaking. But these movies never convinced me that the faith the main characters followed had any relevance to my own life.
How-ever... I realized, when I took anthropology in college, that even though I personally don't believe in any deities or spirits, that religion has been a kind of "social glue" that's been around ever since the first humans were capable of abstract thought enough to wonder why things happened and to try to come up with explanations. The Neanderthals had religion; archaeology has found evidence of this.
So I'm not going to go around like some other atheists and say religion is terrible and should be eradicated because so many terrible things were done in its various names. Humans aren't ready to give it up yet. I don't know if our species ever will be.
Clearly we're also not ready to give up forms of government like monarchy. Real life isn't like a game of Civ; when we switch from Monarchy to whatever in the game, we don't tend to go back to it (though I did a couple of times in Test of Time, as my orbital cities were about to starve under that scenario's version of Republic and I hadn't gotten the tech needed to quell civil disorder).
I'm unfamiliar with any form of Civ that has slavery as a form of government, and if Civ I or II have fascism as a form of government, you'll have to refresh my memory on that.
I'd start a Handmaid's Tale thread if I thought that anyone but myself would ever post in it. It's hard to say what's enjoyable about it. It's not just a TV show or book to me. I did mention growing up in a family where my grandfather flat-out told me that as a girl, I had no right to my own opinions until I was an adult. When I turned 18, he said I had no right to my own opinions until I was married, and then my opinions would be whatever my husband's opinions were.
I think in that moment, I decided that marriage was something I would never do. At least my dad valued my opinions, whether or not they agreed with his. And after my grandfather's death came many years of de-programming, of unlearning certain behaviors and thought patterns, and trying to understand why my grandfather thought as he did - and explain it to my mother, who had hated him because he pulled that patriarchy thing with her (something I hadn't known until she told me many years later, after my grandmother died). That's why I get so defensive and angry here sometimes, if someone's said something that triggers bad memories.
It just seems necessary to me. I have a personal connection to the patriarchy thing. It was part of my life, and so I get THT in ways that lots of other people don't.
You can find people making those arguments right now on the comment pages on the news site I read. And I've been told to my face that "I didn't know people like you were allowed to vote!" (referring to disabled people). Yes, we are. Yes, there is an entire section of the Elections Canada online manual that lays out how we can do it. But someone rewrote it at some point to deny people like me the right to a secret ballot. That's actually a Charter violation - discrimination on the basis of disability.
It just strikes me as really odd that people can say "Monarchy is horrible and should be eradicated everywhere and for all time and should never have existed" and then settle down to enjoy a movie about characters who are either monarchs or want to be monarchs or play games in which monarchy is something necessary to win.
About the closest I ever came to playing games to do with religion is a recent discovery on Steam of a game of Senet. That's Egyptian mythology - the journey of the dead person's soul to the underworld. When I play Civ, temples and cathedrals don't get built unless I have a severe civil disorder problem. The religion-based wonders get built for the points bonus. I care less if my people are happy than if they're literate and not starving, and tech advances chug along at a good clip.
You've just made a great case for stopping the practice of flowers at funerals and all public memorials, like leaving teddy bears at the death scenes where children have died. It's not worship. It's a sign of sadness and respect. If people choose to spend money on that, it's their problem, not yours.
I have never played any Civ higher than II, and at that, I prefer Test of Time, either the Midgard (fantasy scenario) or Lalande (science fiction version).
As mentioned, I go for tech, as fast as I can get it. I normally have the equivalent of Railroad and orbital shuttles before the calendar ticks over to the CE side. The thing about ToT is that there are factions that can research techs that you cannot research, and you either need to get the tech that allows you to communicate with them (a long way off), the Wonder that lets you get free tech if they've discovered it, or spies to steal it. That means keeping those factions alive until they discover the techs you need - so going on a rampage of killing is something you cannot do in those games unless it's the factions that don't have what you need.
So I might not have much respect for how a faction conducts itself, but I have to respect and push them to discover knowledge. Sometimes if they take too long or they're at imminent risk of death from barbarians, I will gift them technology to give them a boost and help them defend themselves. I can always kill them later, after I don't need them anymore.
And as you say, this doesn't mean I like warfare in real life. I don't like a lot of what the British monarchy presided over, even if they personally didn't go out and do stuff. The Queen herself did not personally haul indigenous children from their homes in the 1960s and sell them in black market adoptions to childless couples in the U.S. and Europe. She just happened to be Queen at the time this was done. The Sixties' Scoop is something that I just learned about a few years ago - it's not something that was ever taught in any social studies course in Canadian schools until recently.
The "spiritual grandmother" thing is how some people felt about the Queen Mother, and someone mentioned on CBC.ca that it's how they felt about the Queen. This is a sentiment that has been around for centuries. Queen Elizabeth I said something about being "married to England" and therefore had no need of a husband, and waaaay back in Roman times, Livia Augusta was styled as the Mother to the Empire (however it was worded).
I'm pretty sure nobody is ever going to opine that Charles feels like their "spiritual grandfather."
As I said on another site, I'm fairly sure that serving in the navy, as he did, counts as a job.
Exactly.
As I recall hearing, one of the arguments against allowing women to vote was, "What's the point? They'd only vote the same way their husbands vote, and it would just make twice the work" (to count the ballots; presumably it never occurred to them that unmarried women might want to vote).
This attitude was exhibited by my grandfather during an election in the '80s, after Jim Keegstra was stripped of his teaching license for Holocaust denial and teaching his hatred of Jews to his high school social studies students. My grandfather was also anti-Jewish, and when Keegstra decided to run for the Social Credit party, my grandfather declared he intended to vote for him. Of course he assumed the rest of us would follow suit, and I told my grandmother, "Vote for who you want to. You don't have to vote the same way Grandad does" (I knew my grandmother wanted to vote NDP).
My grandfather was not pleased by this, and childishly said, "Well, my vote cancels yours!"
And then he really wasn't happy when I told him, "I'm voting NDP too - so it's two to one." And then my dad came in and it was three to one...
We all went to vote anyway. And of course the Conservative candidate won. That's how it's always been here federally. But at least I did get my grandmother to realize that she didn't have to obey my grandfather just because he said "jump." It took more work after he died to get her to realize that she did not need to carry on with the same criticisms of me that he used to do. I told her, "He's dead. You don't have to be him. Just stop."
One reason could be that we're literally closer. It's easier to go back and forth. One of our modern-era Prime Ministers was born in England (John Turner; he actually had a relationship at one time with Princess Margaret) and I had a TIL moment yesterday when someone posted that Camilla has family in Canada.
But also, we are saturated with news and pop culture from the U.S. and much of it is baffling and appalling. We don't want that for ourselves, and staying with the constitutional monarchy for government and the Commonwealth is a way of helping to not be assimilated into the U.S.
We're all related via the primordial soup, and going back far enough, via the nebula our solar system condensed from.
Have you seen what's on offer lately? The federal Conservative leadership race just concluded and the winner was a guy who was involved in helping Stephen Harper cheat his way to a "win" in 2011 and who supported the "Freedom Convoy" of truckers who shut down part of Ottawa with their "protest" - and the ones out in Alberta who shut down the international border at Coutts, who had weapons with them and intended to kill a bunch of people, including cops. THAT's what this potential Prime Minister supports.
I wish the provincial Minister of Education in my province would realize just how useless she is and resign.
Kupe Navigator
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It's bit pity to hate the queen for the war that Argentina caused right?
I wasn't alluding to the war; the point was that while Argentina is supposed to be ridiculously into great leader-worship, the current state of the Uk is even worse.
EnglishEdward
Deity
How, do you mean; like since QEIIR has gone, a complete absence of Great Leaders ?
I focus on the extreme reverence. It's a bit argentinian or overall south american, tbh
Whitewashing is also a part. Liz wasn't a saint, so some critique should co-exist with eulogies.
Zardnaar
Deity
They had a great leader and they didn't use her to rush a wonder. Newbs.
Maybe she wasn't a great leader after all?
Zardnaar
Deity
Maybe she wasn't a great leader after all?
They didn't get a minor wonder either.
My gods Valka, who is going to read a post that long!
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