Tiny Civ VI update just landed

[Noble Zarkon]

That's just one example of establishment control over media

Except you didn't give an example juts a bland assertion with no evidence!

 

[Kupe Navigator]

How many of you going to bet that in civ 6 Hong Kong is going to lose its status as city state and instead become part of Chinese cities like Beijing and Shanghai?

 

[LMT]

If the

I wonder what the process was for this -- like, who reached out from where, to whom at Firaxis, that ended up with a hotfix to slightly change an introduction?

Yeah, that's what I'd like to know. I mean, I'm sure individuals contact Firaxis all the time about things they don't like about Civ. So what's different about this?

If Firaxis caved to pressure or a threat from the Chinese government, that is incredibly disappointing.

I hope this doesn't lead to some sort of self-censorship for Civ 7.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I hope this doesn't lead to some sort of self-censorship for Civ 7.

Like I said before this will lead to Hong Kong being part of Chinese city in civ 7... and even add few Taiwanese city like Taipei as well.

 

[AntSou]

To quote an old white playwright:
"Much Ado About Nothing"

As in, you are stunned, appalled and upset because any capitalist entity does not follow the money?
As in, you expect integrity of any kind from such an entity?
As in, most players probably think the Yongle Emperor was named after a cat toy: there is no chance that any sales would be affected by any change they made to him, because 99.999% of the gamers won't know the difference.
And so, again: you are in any way surprised that any capitalist entity does not follow the money?

Besides what TheGrumpyBuddha already mentioned, there's also the matter that a considerable amount of minor issues emerged during Civ 6's cycle that were unresolved for months. This decision reveals the company has sufficient organizational flexibility to address such issues quickly but it chooses not to.

Furthermore, the drive towards profit doesn't mean that rational steps that actually maximise profits will be taken. Companies are managed by individuals which among other things suffer from the awful condition of being human, meaning fear, shortsightedness and incompetence are involved in the decision making process.

By itself this decision may seem minor. But the swiftness reveals a certain naive eagerness at the company. Are they blind to the whole debacle that has literally just occurred at Blizzard, which is seeing that company leave the Chinese market?

The Chinese market may be huge but it also rests on uncertain grounds. Such attitudes come at a cost, in this case in the form of an increase in wariness and distrust towards the company by consumers in safer markets.

 

[Niallism]

Except you didn't give an example juts a bland assertion with no evidence!

I thought this was common knowledge?

Military–entertainment complex - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hollywood and the Pentagon: A love story

For the Pentagon, films like Top Gun: Maverick are more than just a movie.

www.vox.com

Op-Ed: Why does the Pentagon give a helping hand to films like 'Top Gun'?

Americans have a right to know the extent of the military’s influence on the shows and films they consume.

www.latimes.com

Here's a quote:

In the past five years, however, my small group of researchers has acquired 30,000 pages of internal Defense Department documents through Freedom of Information Act requests and newly available archives at Georgetown University, which show that the Pentagon and the Central Intelligence Agency have exercised direct editorial control over more than 2,500 films and television shows.

As I said in my earlier comment, the vehicle of control is money and law, but that doesn't mean it's not propaganda. Effective propaganda often causes its own victims to excuse it or downplay its importance.

But I'm honestly bewildered by this pushback. This is a level of criticism roughly equal to 'The Iraq War wasn't about WMDs', 'Russia doesn't actually want to protect ethnic Russians against Ukrainian persecution', or 'The Chinese government lies about what happened in Tianamen Square'.

Edit: I also think it's good to be 'bland'. That's polite, that's an adult discussion.

Moderator Action: Please discuss the Civ6 game. Current events and politics are not allowed in the game threads. Please get back on topic. PDMA deleted. leif

 

[Niallism]

If the


Yeah, that's what I'd like to know. I mean, I'm sure individuals contact Firaxis all the time about things they don't like about Civ. So what's different about this?

If Firaxis caved to pressure or a threat from the Chinese government, that is incredibly disappointing.

I hope this doesn't lead to some sort of self-censorship for Civ 7.

Sadly, there's always self-censorship, and always has been. Criticising popular political ideas in any key markets is very rare for any mainstream game like Civ.

 

[queenpea]

All of this makes me very worried about how Ludwig II will be portrayed in the Leader Pass.

Considering the stance of the CCP regarding homosexuality, should we expect a "heterosexualized" Fairy Tale King?

 

[Kwami]

As I said in my earlier comment, the vehicle of control is money and law, but that doesn't mean it's not propaganda. Effective propaganda often causes its own victims to excuse it or downplay its importance.

As I said previously, there is no law that requires game and film creators to portray the US military in a positive light. If those creators choose to work with the US military in order to make their products "more realistic", then of course they'll end up making everything look good. The military isn't going to work with somebody that makes them look bad! This is the same sort of thing that happens with all of those police dramas on TV.

But none of this is required by law and the US government doesn't demand changes to existing games or films. So, there's no equivalence here.

 

[Niallism]

As I said previously, there is no law that requires game and film creators to portray the US military in a positive light. If those creators choose to work with the US military in order to make their products "more realistic", then of course they'll end up making everything look good. The military isn't going to work with somebody that makes them look bad! This is the same sort of thing that happens with all of those police dramas on TV.

But none of this is required by law and the US government doesn't demand changes to existing games or films. So, there's no equivalence here.

Why on earth do you think the US government does this? The method of control is capitalistic and less obvious, but it's still propaganda.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

All of this makes me very worried about how Ludwig II will be portrayed in the Leader Pass.

Considering the stance of the CCP regarding homosexuality, should we expect a "heterosexualized" Fairy Tale King?

I would expect something ambiguous. Perhaps he flirts like Cleopatra but without implying the gender of the recipient.

 

[queenpea]

I would expect something ambiguous. Perhaps he flirts like Cleopatra but without implying the gender of the recipient.

If we get a very masculine, strapping, athletic Ludwig, I am calling foul.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

All of this makes me very worried about how Ludwig II will be portrayed in the Leader Pass.

Considering the stance of the CCP regarding homosexuality, should we expect a "heterosexualized" Fairy Tale King?

Why would you want homosexuality or any other sexuality in civ? I mean we tried something similar with agendas with disastrous results!

 

[Kwami]

Why on earth do you think the US government does this? The method of control is capitalistic and less obvious, but it's still propaganda.

So what? What government doesn't engage in propaganda? That's not the point here. The point here is that some governments demand changes for access to their markets. The US government does not do that. The CCP very obviously does and it seems to have just done so here.

 

[queenpea]

Why would you want homosexuality or any other sexuality in civ? I mean we tried something similar with agendas with disastrous results!

You're missing my point. I'm talking about how he is portrayed in relation to the above discussion about CCP censorship.

If he is portrayed as a masculine, heterosexual Teutonic type, then that's a fail for me.

As @Eagle Pursuit pointed out, Cleopatra flirts, and I should expect the same from Ludwig.

 

[Kwami]

Why would you want homosexuality or any other sexuality in civ? I mean we tried something similar with agendas with disastrous results!

The CCP also doesn't like "effeminate" men, which is why they're so against K-Pop these days.

Basically, they want strong, "manly" men, subservient women, and children that always obey their elders. Anything else is subject to rejection for being a bad influence.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

As @Eagle Pursuit pointed out, Cleopatra flirts, and I should expect the same from Ludwig

I think Celopatra flirting is a nodd to her depictions in popular media ( even though it is likely she wasn't THAT flirty in real life)
Unless Ludwig's sexually was a big thing in his life I doubt they would depictions his sexually.
Point one-look at Kristina who is often suspected of being lesbian. Can you tell her sexually by depictions in civ 6 alone?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think Celopatra flirting is a nodd to her depictions in popular media ( even though it is likely she wasn't THAT flirty in real life)
Unless Ludwig's sexually was a big thing in his life I doubt they would depictions his sexually.
Point one-look at Kristina who is often suspected of being lesbian. Can you tell her sexually by depictions in civ 6 alone?

That's why I say that he will likely be ambiguous. Kristina is ambiguous as well. She's depicted in men's attire. It doesn't imply her sexuality, but it signifies that she doesn't hew to the heteronormative female identity of her era. I expect something of the same vein for Ludwig.

 

[queenpea]

I think Celopatra flirting is a nodd to her depictions in popular media ( even though it is likely she wasn't THAT flirty in real life)
Unless Ludwig's sexually was a big thing in his life I doubt they would depictions his sexually.
Point one-look at Kristina who is often suspected of being lesbian. Can you tell her sexually by depictions in civ 6 alone?

Yes, one can tell Kristina has a little something going on. That's what I'm hoping for with Ludwig.

And, yes, he was famously gay, so if his model is a Teutonic jock type, I'm going to wonder why.

Finally, a character model reveal that I can truly look forward to.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Yes, one can tell Kristina has a little something going on. That's what I'm hoping for with Ludwig.

And, yes, he was famously gay, so if his model is a Teutonic jock type, I'm going to wonder why.

Finally, a character model reveal that I can truly look forward to.

He won't look like jock if they base his design on his portraits like they have done with many of leaders so far.