Tips for playing on higher levels Emperor and Immortal

[kristof123]

I am a long time player of Civ4. I play my games on Epic game speed usually with either Frederick or Elizabeth. On the monarch level i win the majority of games that i start regardless of which map i play. On emperor it gets a bit more difficult, the AI tech rate is super fast and i can hardly keep up. How-ever, when playing emperor i usually play on the Fractal map setting that way all the Civs start on the same continent. That way tech trading is not a major issue because i can usually research alphabet relativly fast and can then use it to trade for every tech that i need. If the location of my territory is say for example behind friendly states who share the same religion as i do then i usually am the first to research Liberlism and technology is thus not a problem. But if my neighbours are unpredictable warmongers like Shaka, Kublai Khan and the rest then i usually focus on military teching and production and most of the time i can either capture enough land to sufficiently weaken them and then totaly crush them as soon as i get calvary. Either way most of the time on the emperor level when playing the fractal map setting i do relatively well.

Immortal is a lot more difficult but i can win some of the games so its not to bad.

The difficulty i have is when playing any map that is not based on the fractal settings because say for example the globe consists of 3 continents and the civs are equally shared among the 3 continents. This leads to me having major difficulties in terms of tech trading because any other map type is basicaly based on luck. If If the civs on my continent are friendly i.e non warmongers and research well then usually in this instance the continent that i am on is the dominant continent. But life is not always that gracious the majority of the time i will be stuck with idiots like Tokogawa who researches at a snail pace which means i have to spend more time self researching instead of tech trading and this leads to the inevitable outcome that the rest of the globe is light years ahead. I might also be stuck ona continent with idiot warmongers like Shaka, Julius Cesear and the rest of their ilk. In such situations a victory of any kind (domination, culture e.t.c) will never happen.

Any tips and tricks on how to research a whole faster? Any tips on playing on the higher levels on a whole regardless of map settings. I mean after years of playing Civ4 i know about been the first to research lib, The calvary rush, fail gold, researching at 100% and then at0%. But still it is just not enough at the higher levels. Please help me out, i want to play on the higher levels because the lower levels are now way too easy.

 

[dutchfire]

Get out of your comfort zone, that's the only way to learn and get better. Play a Monarch game with a leader you hate, and on a map type you don't like. If you feel comfortable, do the same at Emperor. Try an elephant+catapult rush, an espionage economy and a culture victory.

Not every game requires liberalism, it is good to expand your toolset and learn what works when.

 

[kristof123]

Get out of your comfort zone, that's the only way to learn and get better. Play a Monarch game with a leader you hate, and on a map type you don't like. If you feel comfortable, do the same at Emperor. Try an elephant+catapult rush, an espionage economy and a culture victory.

Not every game requires liberalism, it is good to expand your toolset and learn what works when.

What would you say is the best date BC or Post BC to initiate an ele/cat rush?. How many cities and which techs do i research first in your opinion? I suppose agriculture,writing,pottery and animal husbandry asap then maths,construction and horseriding. While preparing for war obviously currency or alphabet?
Perhaps bulbing helps to get everything ready that much quicker, maybe bulb maths. To buld maths which techs should i avoid?

 

[Seraiel]

A very good date for an Elepult Rush is 500 BC, but they're good for very long. Pikes are though to them, but with sufficient Catapult / Treb support, even those go down. It actually needs Rifles to really stop Elepult.

 

[kristof123]

A very good date for an Elepult Rush is 500 BC, but they're good for very long. Pikes are though to them, but with sufficient Catapult / Treb support, even those go down. It actually needs Rifles to really stop Elepult.

I am not really good at turns per date. I usually play on epic speed. Ahmm i am just guessing right now so forgive me if my calculations are incorrect, the games starts at 2400bc and between the start and 500bc is a difference of about 40 turns? To research all the techs i would have to bulb maths to get construction asap?

 

[Seraiel]

I am not really good at turns per date. I usually play on epic speed. Ahmm i am just guessing right now so forgive me if my calculations are incorrect, the games starts at 2400bc and between the start and 500bc is a difference of about 40 turns? To research all the techs i would have to bulb maths to get construction asap?

The game starts at 4000 BC and 500 BC on epic-speed is T140 iirc.

The power to a fast and good Elepult-rush lies in expanding only to the most necessary cities (usually 3-6) and it requires good coordination with chops and whips. Both, Elephants and Catapults can be 2-pop-whipped so 2-pop whip on one turn, chop on the others, few turns later 2-pop whip again. If you're good, you can produce 10 Elephants + 5 Catapults in 10-20 turns, depending on how good your doing and on how good your cities are.

 

[Bjarkov]

First off, tech trading on higher difficulties requires some more careful planning; focusing on monopoly techs, partially researching techs to get them cheaper from the AI and getting the timing right while also maintaining a diplomacy to get AIs to keep trading with you is tricky.

Learn to use chops and whip to get a massive military buildup in very short time, when AI is outteching and outproducing you the only hope you have to get ahead is through the bursts you, as a human player, is capable of. Through a burst military buildup you get the chance to rapidly expand your lands to meet and exceed even the most powerful of the AI, if you can manipulate them to accept your attacks on weaker civs. Just be prepared for the ensuing economic crisis once the dust settles on your suddenly-three-times-as-big empire

The time of Construction is a classic time to do this, because it unlocks the two most powerful units of their era; Elephant and Catapult. Engineering and Civil Service is another time to perform a big buildup, again because of the units you enable (maces and trebs). At higher difficulties, if you manage to just barely keep up in tech until you are able to punch a hole with one of these, you are doing fine. 10 Field units (6-7 Phants/maces, 3-4 support units) are enough to wage the initial war if you can maintain a steady supply of Siege (these will take heavy casualties in your battles and need replacements). In my own Monarch days I'd usually go for a Knight breakout, but the siege-driven wars are much more cost-efficient when your opponents all have Longbows.
Winning Lib race for Military Tradition into a big cuirassier breakout is the tried-and-true path to victory, but I find that I usually fall too far behind for this line and need to wage war a little earlier..

Also note that the AI will take into account your military strength when it looks for conquest targets, so boasting a strong military early also makes you relatively safe from DoWs that can otherwise mean game over, so all in all, earlier buildups make for safer play and give you a chance to reach late-game in shape to take over the game

 

[georgjorge]

Also note that the AI will take into account your military strength when it looks for conquest targets, so boasting a strong military early also makes you relatively safe from DoWs that can otherwise mean game over, so all in all, earlier buildups make for safer play and give you a chance to reach late-game in shape to take over the game

This doesn't work on higher levels because it requires you to have a lot of units sitting around and not warring (which is just another way of losing if you don't use those hammers on research or infrastructure). If you are involved in a war, the AI reduces your own power by the power of your opponent(s), so unless you are a lot more powerful than the AI you are waging war against you will actually see your power rating reduced for that purpose.

 

[elitetroops]

Also note that the AI will take into account your military strength when it looks for conquest targets, so boasting a strong military early also makes you relatively safe from DoWs that can otherwise mean game over, so all in all, earlier buildups make for safer play and give you a chance to reach late-game in shape to take over the game

Agree with GJ, this is not a good plan. It's probably one reason why you fall behind in tech if you go for lib MT. Especially on immortal you'll ruin your chances to stay in the tech game if you try to keep a peacetime army big enough to make you safe from DoWs. And as GJ said, if you are at war you'd need a lot more troops to not be a target.

The AI does take your military strength in account, but it's an on/off switch. If you are not above the threshold, then it doesn't matter if you have only one warrior/city or an army of phants/cats/longbows that is almost big enough to scare the AI. Much better to invest the hammers into expansion and improving your economy and use diplomacy to keep yourself safe from your neighbors.

 

[Bjarkov]

I'm not at all advocating peace-keeper armies. You build units to use them.
I didn't know there was such a mechanic to nation strength comparison. In my games I've engaged the AIs when my power rating was a little less than 1, since noone else interferred barring bribes from my victim I assumed it was my sizable military that kept them at bay, but it must've been something else then. (from what you say, engaging in war with a 1.0 strength rating opponent lets other AIs see your effective strength for warplanning purposes a round 0. Is this correct? Somehow it doesn't fit for me)

 

[dmd175]

The discussion of dates, tech order, and elepults seems different than the other main threads of advice I've received on this forum, which is play the map and your enemies. How many maps can you found on having jumbos close enough to be useful? I'm only transitioning to emperor but I basically play any leader / any map (random settings). Maybe as I ultimately transition to IMM I will learn that the approach has to be more formulaic, but for right now I like the open-ended and flexible approach to each game (though I take th point - as a reformed builder - that early war is almost essential to catapult ahead as I've move up in levels).

I agree with Bjarkov about something seeming off with relative strength values. If that calculation were true about your power reduced by target's power, wouldnt we see a lot more dogpiles? I rarely see such opportunistic DOWs by AIs when Im attackijg another AI. I am not usually at parity with my target so I'd ought to even be subject to more attacks, but this isn't my experience.

 

[georgjorge]

If you want to know in detail when AIs will go to war, this 2008 post is your friend. Or this page from the same thread. Telling quotes:

If I am at war with Shaka, then De Gaulle (the master dogpiler) won't dare to jump in to dogpile me as long as I can keep my power > 2/3*(Power_Shaka + Power_DeGaulle)

If you're already at war and playing even a remotely high difficulty, it's pretty well impossible to prevent a dogpiling short of diplomacy. An exception my be owning the target so hard that they ALSO fall below that threshold, and having their position make them more viable targets to the AI than you either for diplo or just border reasons.

As for the original post - without seeing your game in action, it's hard to tell. For instance, I don't know how well you trade techs, if you bulb enough, if you whip enough (or too much!) etc. So you can only really improve by posting an example game - going very slow at the start, waiting for others input, posting screenshots frequently etc. Of course, Elepults are strong, but there are enough maps where other solutions (Curs, Trebs) are even stronger/safer. So I'd stay away from thinking "must Elepult - must Elepult - must Elepult" at the outset. Just show us how you play.

 

[drewisfat]

In general I do think there is a key philosophical difference in moving from emperor to immortal or deity. Below that you usually try to build up your economy and keep up with the AIs technologically, hoping to eventually out tech them and either space / conquer them. So you're thinking long term, you build most of the infrastructure, you grow your cities real big, you build a lot of towns, etc.

This works up until about emperor, after which it becomes nearly impossible to consistently out tech the AI. They just have too many bonuses. Upper level play is about playing shorter term, exposing any advantage you get with a breakout, and beelining. You keep your economy afloat enough to tech trade to keep yourself in the game until you can conquer enough that it doesn't matter.

This means a whole lot of things are for the most part garbage: (if it has a P that means its garbage on pangaea maps, acceptable on bigger maps).
- Markets
- Grocers
- Courthouses (P)
- Wall Street
- Universities (P)
- Oxford (P)
- Hospitals
- Moai Statue (P)
- National Park
- West Point
- Forbidden Palace
- Hydro/Nuclear Plants
- Temples
- Monasteries
- Custom Houses
- Stables
- Banks
- Late game buildings I forgot to mention

And then mostly crap:
- Aqueducts
- Theaters
- Colosseums

That's a lot of things. Obviously there are some situational exceptions, and they might make sense in a couple cities, or especially our capital. But for the most part they're bad. Instead of those things you should usually be building wealth / fail gold / units. Also don't settle citizens or run normal water tiles. In general keep your cities smaller and closer together.

IDK if that advice helps since I don't know your playstyle, but it might be a wake-up call to a lot of people trying to get better but still going the "out infrastructure" AI method.

 

[Solyaris]

In general I do think there is a key philosophical difference in moving from emperor to immortal or deity. Below that you usually try to build up your economy and keep up with the AIs technologically, hoping to eventually out tech them and either space / conquer them. So you're thinking long term, you build most of the infrastructure, you grow your cities real big, you build a lot of towns, etc.

This works up until about emperor, after which it becomes nearly impossible to consistently out tech the AI. They just have too many bonuses. Upper level play is about playing shorter term, exposing any advantage you get with a breakout, and beelining. You keep your economy afloat enough to tech trade to keep yourself in the game until you can conquer enough that it doesn't matter.

This means a whole lot of things are for the most part garbage: (if it has a P that means its garbage on pangaea maps, acceptable on bigger maps).
- Markets
- Grocers
- Courthouses (P)
- Wall Street
- Universities (P)
- Oxford (P)
- Hospitals
- Moai Statue (P)
- National Park
- West Point
- Forbidden Palace
- Hydro/Nuclear Plants
- Temples
- Monasteries
- Custom Houses
- Stables
- Banks
- Late game buildings I forgot to mention

And then mostly crap:
- Aqueducts
- Theaters
- Colosseums

That's a lot of things. Obviously there are some situational exceptions, and they might make sense in a couple cities, or especially our capital. But for the most part they're bad. Instead of those things you should usually be building wealth / fail gold / units. Also don't settle citizens or run normal water tiles. In general keep your cities smaller and closer together.

IDK if that advice helps since I don't know your playstyle, but it might be a wake-up call to a lot of people trying to get better but still going the "out infrastructure" AI method.

Agreed 90%! Markeds can have value if you have 3+ resorces that give happiness (fur,silk,whale,ivony) and have food surpluss and low netto happiness. Theaters are often also okey (low cost, often give happiness, huge culture bonus for border cities and globetheater can give you huge whip potential). The capital might also build some of these buildings; university, aqueduct, monasteries. Moai Statue is good for failgold if you have stone.

 

[Fippy]

You forgot Globe
Actually would get my vote for most overrated building.

Stables are good if you have time before making those units, in cities where you know they will produce many. But yep, sometimes it's better to skip them.

I would rather put Aqueducts into the crappy list, health is too often not an important factor unless games go very long. And even if i see green faces..it can still be no issue and you might want to spend 100h on something else cos that city can live with some temporary food loss.

 

[drewisfat]

I considered putting Globe on there, but I figured it would be too controversial as I know a lot of people swear by it

I personally rarely use globe theater. The big exception for me is playing Louis (one of my favs) where I globe almost every game.

I put aqueducts on mostly crappy instead of completely crappy. I think aqueducts sometimes make sense, not just in health poor starts, but in happy poor starts where I end up trading away all my health resources for happy ones. Although still they're not going to be worth building right away. Also they make sense later on around factories if you don't have a lot of resources they can be more efficient than grocers. Although I guess by this logic markets/grocers shouldn't be on the first list as they can be worth it late game if you have all their key resources, and are somehow still in trouble.

 

[civtilidy]

You want to scrap the Globe? The conscriptioncenter of the nation capable of converting 1f to 7.33h every turn?