Today I Learned #4: Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.

[r16]

TIL that WWII submarines, at least of the German variety, could only travel about 6 knots while submerged, versus 18 knots or so when not submerged. I'd always pictured them sailing silently under the seas, stalking boats and sinking them, but they have to be surfaced to travel with any speed.

I also learned that Tom Hanks knows more about WWII submarines than I do.

the essential thing about the so called Wolfpack tactics was the same . Not "true" submarines but submersibles surface ships that dive only when necessary . Find enemy merchantships or convoys , keep track of them during the day . Bring other submarines from other patrol boxes . Attack on the surface at night , with very low profile and the option of diving when in danger . Multiple submarines , limited escorts , success . Except too much radio traffic makes the British mark possible submarine locations and re-route . Might have practically paralyzed U-boot warfare before there were enough German submarines to over large enough areas which naturally coincided with much larger numbers of escorts . And movie people readily come with the capability to absorb and present ; Tom Hanks could be more proficient than me any day , in the unlikely case you need consolotion .

 

[tjs282]

I'd always pictured them sailing silently under the seas, stalking boats and sinking them, but they have to be surfaced to travel with any speed.

Yes.

The cross-sectional area of the submerged hull has a major impact on any boat's top speed, and WWI/II-era subs were essentially boat-hulls with a near-zero freeboard, and a conning-tower (at least) half as tall again as the boat itself, so the cross-section would increase substantially when fully submerged -- not to mention the added drag from any other non-retractable structures (deck-guns, net-cutter, flag-poles, etc.). Those subs were also dependent on fully battery-powered propulsion while submerged, which gave less thrust (but was also a lot quieter) than the air-breathing diesel-powered propulsion used while running at the surface.

And AFAIK, although they may have carried CO₂-scrubbers to minimise the effects of hypercapnia, they were usually not equipped with O₂-generators, so could only remain submerged for as long as the air in the crew-compartments stayed breathable (fresh-air pO₂= 0.21, pO₂ < 0.16 can cause dizziness/unconsciousness).

So the U-boats would actually spend most of their time cruising at or very near the surface, and would only submerge when stealth was a priority, i.e. to make their attack-runs (usually only a few meters below the surface) once a target(s) had been located, or to pass through narrow channels of hostile water (such as the Straits of Gibraltar).

 

[r16]

battery power . Must be on the surface to recharge , before snorkel was available .

 

[tjs282]

battery power . Must be on the surface to recharge , before snorkel was available .

Quite.

Though according to the various wiki-articles I just skimmed regarding German U-boat designs, running on diesel just below the surface using a snorkel was also found to be largely impractical in high seas, because every time a wave broke over the snork, the automatic valve-closure (to prevent water-aspiration) caused the engine to suck air from the crew-compartments instead, and the sudden pressure-drop could actually inflict ear-barotrauma on the crewmen.

(TIL: I would not have wanted to be a submariner during WWI/II...)

 

[r16]

certainly for the initial period . They rapidly figured out passable set ups and had they studied all that in 1942 or 43 , they might have been a much worse threat . They had this awakening in 1945 , well before the single war cruise by a Type XXl , but comparatively on a far smaller scale . (Wehraboo thing is a sin but supposedly they had better snorkels in wartime than the Americans designed postwar after examining German ones.)

 

[Valka D'Ur]

According to the wiki article it can be any type of soda, with regional variations .

Well, it's obviously not illegal, but ... honestly, this is similar to the pineapple/black olives-on-pizza argument, applied to fast food drinks.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Vanilla ice cream in grape juice is pretty good too!

 

[AmazonQueen]

Well, it's obviously not illegal, but ... honestly, this is similar to the pineapple/black olives-on-pizza argument, applied to fast food drinks.

Well pineapple is a crime but black olives are essential.

 

[GinandTonic]

...since you anyways put milk into coffee...

You utter monster.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Well pineapple is a crime but black olives are essential.

I used to love ham & pineapple on pizza, but one time I tried tomatoes, and have since switched to tomato, pepperoni, and black olives.

I have some tins of mackerel that include black olives. It's delicious, and Maddy thinks so as well - I see she found the most recent tin and got it out of the garbage to lick it clean.

 

[GenMarshall]

I had to reconnect with Trigonometry. Something that I haven’t touched since high school.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I haven't touched it since high school, either. But I'd bet it's been more years for me than it has for you (I graduated in 1980).

 

[GenMarshall]

I haven't touched it since high school, either. But I'd bet it's been more years for me than it has for you (I graduated in 1980).

It’s a funny thing how when one is learning a trade like machining, old stuff you learn in high school math like trig and geometry comes back.

 

[Takhisis]

TIL that WWII submarines, at least of the German variety, could only travel about 6 knots while submerged, versus 18 knots or so when not submerged. I'd always pictured them sailing silently under the seas, stalking boats and sinking them, but they have to be surfaced to travel with any speed.

I also learned that Tom Hanks knows more about WWII submarines than I do.

Did you never wonder why subs in Civ3 only have 4 MPs compared to destroyers having 8, and even battleships having 5?

 

[Quintillus]

Did you never wonder why subs in Civ3 only have 4 MPs compared to destroyers having 8, and even battleships having 5?

I had a bit. But it seemed easy enough to rationalize. There's only one sub unit for both WWI and WWII style subs. Maybe they're trying to avoid them being overpowered, and giving destroyers at least a chance of detecting them first. That sort of thing. Nuclear subs have 6, IIRC, so the "technological progression, they're representing Great War subs in part" and balance seemed reasonable enough.

 

[EgonSpengler]

TIL that in 1989, Pepsi made a deal with the Soviet Union for 17 submarines, a cruiser, a frigate, and a destroyer. Pepsi was trying to take advantage of an American effort to expand our culture and markets into the USSR, and get a step up on its rival, Coca-Cola. According to legend, Pepsi Co. briefly sailed the world's 6th-largest navy, eclipsing India in submarines, but of course that's just folks having some fun. The ships were old, unarmed and minimally-crewed. Pepsi always intended to turn the ships into scrap, and had a deal with a shipyard in Norway to dismantle them.

Foreign Policy, 27 November 2021 - "The Doomed Voyage of Pepsi’s Soviet Navy"

Back in the '90s, playing a round of "what would you do with a billion dollars?" with friends late at night, I proposed that I would buy a decommissioned Soviet submarine, complete with unemployed officers and crew, and convert it into a private yacht. I'd recently seen a documentary about the sorry state of the former Soviet navy, and thought they might get rid of one of the old boats for virtually the cost of disarming it and taking it off their hands. And along with the vessels sitting idle, their former crews were getting drunk and collecting unemployment, often in the very same ports where the ships were gathering seaweed. I'd be like a libertine James Bond villain, sailing a degenerate party boat beneath the waves, literally coming up for air once in a while.

 

[r16]

pepsi is evil . Some guy collected enough bottle caps as demanded by the TV ad and wanted to have the promised AV-8B . ı understand the courtcase went on for years . Somewhat similarly Coca Cola here was once rumoured to offer a wheelchair for bottlecaps , company denied , some sort of grass roots action . They sometimes still gift wheelchairs for say 10 000 caps .

 

[Takhisis]

I had a bit. But it seemed easy enough to rationalize. There's only one sub unit for both WWI and WWII style subs. Maybe they're trying to avoid them being overpowered, and giving destroyers at least a chance of detecting them first. That sort of thing. Nuclear subs have 6, IIRC, so the "technological progression, they're representing Great War subs in part" and balance seemed reasonable enough.

A normal sub is 8.4.4 and a nuclear one is 8.4.5 (destroyers' defence is 8) so you can get a nuclear sub outclassed by an 8.4.6 regular sub augmented by the Seafaring trait and Magellan's Voyage.

Or, of course, you can have 8.4.7 maxxed-out nuclear subs hunting down 1.2.6 transports! Attack transport, ‘retreat’ by moving closer to destination, rinse, repeat. Keep track of enemy fleet with reconaissance fighters.

 

[Samson]

TIL that this means "I love you" not "the devil".

 

[EgonSpengler]

TIL that this means "I love you" not "the devil".

That's so metal, dude.