TSG40 After Action Report

Overview of the ruins we popped
3 20c
6 75g (Edinburgh buys deer tile, revealing another ruins)
10 survivors
17 map
21 95g
62 upgrade
107 survivors
109 80g
117 20c
119 survivors
122 65g
125 map
127 camps
136 20c
OK, thx for inf. "Edinburgh buys deer tile" => speed up monument and Liberty (t13)

There is a lot to learn when it comes to micromanagement :)

11 Pottery
28 Trapping
50 Philosophy (Great Library)

@ Ribannah Is this something similarly to your play?

Worker & Granary after scout?
Worker improve Deer (N.B. no extra :c5food: from pantheon before religion, must be a bug..) ?
Writing T36 and start GL in T38 (after Granary)?
5 Citizen with prod. focus (stagnation) + chop 2 forrest => GL in T51?
Rush buy or more chop for first settler (T60 incl. 6 turns moving)?
Buy one flood plain tile next to CS?

Enhanced religion at T85 (you need 300 faith in 25 turns => 12 faith/turns), ally with both CS?

p.s I steal 1 CS worker before I met any AI (no diplo. probl.). I could have steal 1 more but I read somewhere that you get "diplo" penalty with CS if you declare war more than once, don't know if this is true or not. I got 60 faith from a last ruin on island. Let us hope the foreign sites are still free :) d.s
Well, there you go. We took Optics early. Our +2 visibility Scout reported promising land to the east even before that.
OK, I can see Pearl, Marble and Dyes in Sweden, but Crab in Maya :)
 
It was my very first GOTM attempt in my 11+ years here at Civ Fanatics and I achieved my very first Civ 5 King victory :king: I was proud of my T416 Science victory with a whopping 1030 score . . . until I came here and saw everyone else's results :sad:

EDIT: It was also the first time I ever built an Anti-Aircraft Gun (came in handy when Haile showed up with a Carrier and Bombers), a Guided Missle (useless), an Atomic Bomb (never got a chance to detonate it on Geneva for fear of collateral damage against the friendly Swedes who were surrounding the city), and a Carrier.
 
And more Deer. Douglas became quite productive.

We allied with La Venta on turn 69.

Build order in Edinburgh was Monument-Granary, which also was my usual start in vanilla.

Edinburgh
2 Founded (1nw, 2ne)
6 deer 50g
10 =2, =3 (ruins)
11 Monument
19 Granary
23 Scout
24 Worker 310g
29 =4
31 Worker
36 Shrine
37 Settler (collective rule)
38 Furs
42 Furs
43 =5
50 GREAT LIBRARY
55 Settler
59 Worker (citizenship)
60 Settler, Great Prophet
63 Water Mill
65 =6
68 Stone Works
71 hill 70g
72 Settler
75 Settler, Wine, forest 95g, oasis 80g
79 =7, Pictish Warrior
83 Pictish Warrior
84 =8
85 Great Prophet
88 Market
92 =9
96 Missionary 200f
98 PETRA
100 =10, Archer
101 WLTKD (Ivory from Manila)
104 =11
108 desert hill 95g
109 =12
111 CHICHEN ITZA
114 =13
115 Aqueduct
119 =14, Workshop
123 =15
124 Great Scientist (liberty tree)
125 Academy
126 NATIONAL COLLEGE
127 =16
130 University
131 =17
132 Great General
133 Garden
136 =18
141 =19, GREAT MOSQUE OF DJENNE
145 WLTKD (Byzantium Copper for 720g)
146 =20, Great Scientist, Academy
148 IRONWORKS
150 =21
154 =22
156 LEANING TOWER OF PISA -> Great Engineer
157 PORCELAIN TOWER (GE) -> Great Scientist, Academy
159 =23
161 Windmill
163 =24
165 Furs
166 Public School
169 =25
171 Factory
172 Coal, Aluminum
174 Bank
176 =26, Ceilidh Hall
180 Hydro Plant
181 Great Scientist
183 NATIONAL TREASURY
184 =27
186 Stock Exchange
192 =28
193 Research Lab 1350g
195 STATUE OF LIBERTY
197 NATIONAL EPIC
199 HERMITAGE
201 =29
203 SISTINE CHAPEL
205 OXFORD UNIVERSITY
209 Great Scientist 1500f
210 APOLLO PROGRAM
211 =30
212 WLTKD (Ivory from Manila)
213 Great Scientist
217 HUBBLE SPACE TELESCOPE
218 Temple
219 =31
221 SS STASIS CHAMBER
223 SS ENGINE
 
It was my very first GOTM attempt in my 11+ years here at Civ Fanatics and I achieved my very first Civ 5 King victory :king: I was proud of my T416 Science victory with a whopping 1030 score . . . until I came here and saw everyone else's results :sad:
Welcome to GOTM, nice to see you made it here. Finally? :)

Not to worry, hang around a bit and read what some of these players do and you'll be with them in no time.
 
And more Deer. Douglas became quite productive.

We allied with La Venta on turn 69.

Build order in Edinburgh was Monument-Granary, which also was my usual start in vanilla.

....
:thanx:
I will replay this for practice I had problem with GL on 50 either prod. focus or chopping. I always start with scout to hunt ruins.

I like your write-up. Especially when you use "we":)
 
I didn't save my game afterward, so I can't submit the file, but here's what I got:

Science victory,
Score 3233
439 turns.

It was a fun game. I founded only two cities early on in the starting land mass, but quickly spread across the sea to the east and more or less took over that continent. The rest of the game was pretty uneventful other than getting DoWed a few times and acquiring more cities as a result.
 
I didn't save my game afterward, so I can't submit the file, but here's what I got:
If you still have the auto-save you could reload from the last one and finish the game, then save and submit if you wish. :)
 
Edinburgh
2 Founded (1nw, 2ne) -> 219 =31

Thank you very much, Ribannah for sharing your knowledge
That's an amazing and so useful help for a dummy like me.
Will replay the GOTM#40 according to your strategy and learn and learn and learn...

Thanks for to all civfanatics who share pieces of strategy, hints and clues.:goodjob:
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 40
Date submitted: 2012-08-01
Reference number: 26748
Your name: Dave_the_Turnip
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 2042AD
Turns played: 484
Base score: 769
Final score: 801
Time played: 8:52:00
Submitted save: Boudicca_0484 AD-2042-January.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Dave_the_Turnip_C504001.Civ5Save

Is it obvious i'm pretty inexperienced when it comes to the game? I won though! HA HA! This was my first game really dealing with religion and espionage and i loved both, but definitely was not using them to their potential.

The whole game i tried to say friends with everyone, but my true allies were the Maya, and Spain. Dido went to war with me early on in the game, and i fought her back until she paid me a lot of tribute for a peace treaty. Later on in the game she was gearing up for war again, but i bribed a few civs to war with her, and that kept her busy till the end of the game.

Even though Spain was an ally, Isabella started to get neck and neck with a science victory, so once again i bribed other civs to war with her to keep her busy.

I think by the time the next GotM rolls around, i should be more experienced and have an easier time with things. This game definitely taught me a lot though. Onwards and upwards!
 
oh, i have a noob question since this is supposed to be a learning game...

is there any trick to signing RA's? it became pretty expensive by the end of the game. the first problem was the other civs didn't have enough gold. so i started gifting them the amount they were short. then i would propose the RA and they would still say no. by the end of the game, i had to include 300 gold to get them to accept. that or a resource/luxury if i had one available. so by the end of the game, i had to pay 350 for the RA, 300 for the gift to get them to sign then often about 150 in a gift so they have enough to propose the RA in the first place. so that's 800 gold per RA. pretty pricey, no?

i was normally able to scrounge up the money because i could sell basically a lot of resources. but still, it's annoying. it doesn't make a lot of logical sense either. the AI doesn't deem an apple for an apple trade to be fair unless it receives an apple and an orange?

There are two things which might help. One is, try to time your eras so that you sign RAs while you're still in the same era as the AI, as they want 100:c5gold: for each era you are ahead. Or, if you think that an AI will advance an era quite soon, you can wait a few turns before signing the RA. The other is, when the AI doesn't have enough gold to pay its side of the RA, don't just give it gold, but trade gold for gpt.

It does get expensive though - you're bound to be one or two eras ahead for your final wave of RAs in science game on King.

another question - what is the best strategy for using great scientists? going for a science victory, you end up getting a bunch of them. I used all but one to bulb techs but in retrospect, I probably should have used them to build academies? I'm guessing build them around cities with high pops but not a ton of production? and put them on an otherwise bad tile?

Received wisdom is that you should save your GSs until you reach peak :c5science:, then bulb them. Assuming science peaks at about 1000:c5science:, each GS is worth 6000:c5science: that way. The total output of the academy isn't going to be that high. The only thing is that the academy would get you through the bottom of the tree faster, so you can get your public schools and research labs up earlier, which might give you time to spawn an extra GS, thus giving you back the GS you spent on the academy. I think if you can get a super-early GS (e.g. by being Babylon) then you should settle him or her, but by turn 150 you should be saving them.
 
First time I played a GOTM. I like the King difficulty. I ended on the level of Marcus Aurelius "because it is hard for you, doesnt mean it is hard for anyone."

I put my capitol on the river. I thought it made a trade route with other cities on the same river. It didnt :( changed since civ2, 3 or 4 I guess?

First I stood on my island. Around the Great War Infantry and Landship units I decided to kick Sweden. Just for fun :) And later around the (Rocket) Artillery unit I asked The Huns what they want to pay me for war with Carthego. For 200 gold they had me in war with Carthego untill the Giant Death Robot unit.

All the time I had trouble with the city states to keep friend/allies with. The Ethiopians had a lot of good spies and respect of the city states.

I dont know how to post that score table, but I had fun. Hopefully next month another King difficulty!
 

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I finished it, I was suboptimal, but I have excuses, the game ran slow and crashed a lot, but I finished, with the science victory.

1739 pts
2032 AD
464 turns

I could have won much faster diplomatically I imagine. My laptop really goes slow especially at war, but I understand they wanted to include all the new civs...

I made a bunch of notes and observations. I liked my tech progression, early on I was doing well, but then I got off track. My religion and social policies were sub-optimal. This was my fourth game of G&K and my first GoTM.

My Religion was big, but I never got enough advantage from it. I took Inter-faith dialogue though it took me a while to figure out how to make it work. I sent missionaries to foreign cities and converted just a few people to my religion which I think earned me about 100 science. To take advantage of this more you'd need to pair it with an ability or wonder that makes missionaries better or faster.

It tells you when you have enough faith to buy something but it should really tell you what you can buy, I settled at lot of great people. I don't think I managed them or my forest resources too well. I'm used to smaller maps and I just kinda went with the flow.

I denounced Attila for repeatedly spying on me which lead to war with Carthage and the Netherlands... I took one city off of Carthage then made peace to pursue my science victory. Austria kept overthrowing the government then marrying the new leader, so I eventually went to war with them. I was just about to take Salzburgh when I took the money and goodies for peace. I probably should have beat down Carthage and especially Austria more.

As it was I won, but it took a long time, the Mayans could have won perhaps culturally with a little more luck.

"It has been many years since you promised not to settle near Austria, you can consider that promised fulfilled."

Never saw that message before. I'm still learning G&K and my laptop doesn't work well on larger even standard maps.

I don't like that pikemen upgrade to lancers as lancers require horses a resource I had little or none of.

My religion was:
Fertility Rites
Interfaith Dialogue
Cathedrals
Religious Communities
Itinerant Preachers

It spread fast and far but I didn't benefit that much. I like Cathedrals, I'm almost tempted to double down on another religious building next game I play.

Given hindsight of the map I should have prioritized naval techs a bit sooner. I also like the special Hall and perhaps beelining to it sooner would work better for the Celts who could do a pretty good cultural victory perhaps.

I also should have just expanded more once I finally found empty islands. I'm used to playing a small tight empire but on larger maps with ample happiness going for a space victory I should have expanded further faster, neighbors be damned I had the tech lead the entire game and never lost a city in either of my two wars.

I made several friends but even when I had the money, I could always do research agreements because my friend didn't have the money, plus I had to sweeten the deal in many cases. I'm not sure how many friends is optimal but more money would have helped. Denouncing the AI pissed them off but they do it to me all the time and I don't even know what for. I killed so many enemy spies but hardly got to steal a tech myself. I never overthrew any governments or conquered any city states.

Well enough rambling. I could have done a lot better, but I just can't stand the speed the game plays at on standard and higher maps. I lost focus and coasted to victory.
 
OK finally ended this, all of this took long time as I did a replay afterwards to check out another strategy.

1. try ended turn 199 and I think I did kind of optimal approach.

BO in Cap:
worker - (switch to granny once available - finish after
granny
gl
(buy warri to defend barbs)
start NC (wait pyra tech)
pyramids
finish NC
scout to defend barbs
HG
start oracle - finish with timing ren era
CI
market
more wonders ...

in end I had 7 buildings "free" in cap - they come nowadays together with wonders :)

Well teching to get the techs for the wonders I wanted and as soon as I could fit in sailing and optics (after masonary)

Sailed around world and send starting units (with hut up to UU) and moe uus around world to clear all those barb camps
I was nasty and dowed all ais to get gold for settlers ....

Settled 5 citties all on starting isle (1 in every direction) - other citites build grows building mainly (granny lighthouse and then lib uni and so on)
Went into ren era around turn 100 (had money to buy 2 universities right after edu)

After ren I got me 3 of those nasty shot ships and took sweden and maya cap - anaxed swedish cap (in retro I should anex both and also carth cap)

sp:
all trad
3 left of rati
2 Order (hint hint) 2nd came right before factories been available
finish rati (eco starter as filler)

I made sure to get me all CS and got all but 1 in end - spies lvl up with catching spies in cap 1. and then going to CS rigging

Endgame is really all about getting plastics asap - get public shools up - peek as high as possible (fill aout EVERY building in EVERY city and switch prod to science) - do this for 8 turns and bulb - profit
I just had to make sure to start bulbing early enough as every tech needs a turn ...
So i used w scientist every turn or 2nd and finished another tech with overflow.
after bulbing plasics I got the techs for louvre and built it and timed finishing it after last great scientist I planed and got it and PT the turn after - 24 turns of ga in end seems nice and u can use this free ga wonder to time with public schools getting up

religion:
faith rocks!
buying great people with faith adds another lvl to mirco to the game - I got myself 2 engies and 3 scientists
the relgionsp I took been:
hunting thing (obvious on this map) It seems really map dependent what to take
2 gold per city
2 faith per wonder (alowed me get a missionar and 2nd prophet very soon
prod per dude (just the best)
50 faith per used guy - at end of game u ll have used about 3 prphets and 2-3 engiess and about 10 scientists - so this nets 500-800 faith - what CAN be 1 more great dude in end

I think you should target to have 100 faith per turn in end to get enough great dudes - it seems kind of design problem that there is no way to "fight" prohet and missionar apart following them with inq every turn
spreading few missionar around map to fullfill the give me religion quest seems a good idea - it comes constantly
I did a replay afterwards using a turn 50 save and stayed friendly with every1 - but the time I lost to to less money to buy settlers and universities was just not made up by few RAs in end - RAs seems totally worthless if not playing deity after this patch - they are just way to weak if other civs tech suckz - the money is better invested in buying settlers, unis or public schools right when available

I could get all CS aswell in this replay but ended in turn 217 only - when final 2 RAs came in I was kind of shooked how slim the gain was compared to the gain from bulbing

I also had to use oracle for patronage starter as it was too risky to wait longer and I didnt have enough money to keep the CS (I just needed them for happyness and other purpose

edit: I peeked science at 1500 bakkers/t so - I think a bulb is 8xthe science easy said (folmula ..) so they bulb even more then 1 tech now ....
 
Nice game tommy. You were be able to take a lot of policies within only 200 turns. I guess you rushed Hubble with a ge near the end. I was sure that a pre 210 turns was possible but not under 200 :eek:

Pretty impressive. At which turn did you have NC completed? And with how many cities?

I was nasty and dowed all ais to get gold for settlers ....

Coupled with the fact that you didn't sign any RAs i think you really found something pretty synergic but meanwhile pretty unbalanced and ''uncivilized(i.e. not deserved as a strategy for a game like this)'' as well.

I have to thank you for this.
 
Ok my g+k startegy analysis:
trad or liberty?
I think they are on par now
I did this game with using tradition, but u really need ai with money to get a real advantage from that - othwrwise the differences are really slim - the free aque is equaled by the frree shield from liberty )which kind of equals to aque hammer)

about 5-7 cities seem optimal - this is same as classic but less can work and anexing conquered ones insread building self seems a good way to get the counter up

Religion - neglecting it is definatly not optimal - in endgme a religion can give u about 100 gpt and about 5 great persons not to speak of other bonuses

lib/trad into rati - and then?
I really liked the order tree a lot - buying engies with faith is just pure power and the factory bonus did let me peek my science at 1500 so getting 1 or 2 scientists less isnt such a biggy

but all those sp really forces u to get cult up - so get those cultural CS!!!

I really like the new CS quests, it seems every CS got "his" barb camp - so get units for these fast! -
trick:declare protection once u meet - after clearing its camp or fullfilling something else just stop the protection to not get problems with other ais
basiclly it gives u free 10 influence which can be the difference between freinds and alies for few turn after1 quest

RA just suck..
I m not a friendly player suaully so this friendship thing anoys me and seems random to me - there still is no clear indictor if a civ likes me or my enemy more and why and still no good way to change status.
Only + - no more brokken RAs .. but then u wont notice anyway if u get the gain or not (as said this might be very different in a deity game)
 
Pretty impressive. At which turn did you have NC completed? And with how many cities?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tommynt
I was nasty and dowed all ais to get gold for settlers ....

Coupled with the fact that you didn't sign any RAs i think you really found something pretty synergic but meanwhile pretty unbalanced and ''uncivilized(i.e. not deserved as a strategy for a game like this)'' as well.

I have to thank you for this.

hm NC been up in maybe turn 60 I guess (or bit before) - guess gl about turn 33 pyras turn 48 or so and NC 10 turns after - did it with 2 ciites and bought 2 more settlers which planted right after its finish - this seems pretty optimal to me
maybe pyras not worth it (only 25% bonus didnt really help) - so maybe a gl into nc start is still way to go

Well after the 2nd game where I really was frinedly to every1 (turn 217 finish not bad either I guess) I was still kind of pissed how hard it is to keep relation.

So there might be a constalation where 1 civ doesnt like another - so u gotta decide - but then there comes a 3rd civ and so on and suddenly your frinds dont like each other and both hate you - pretty dumb system.

Maybe this game is only played "fair" at deity lvl when u reallyy gotta think if dowing is a good idea or not.

About about the sp - well yes they come every 1ß-15 turns cultaral allies are just huge - every wonder gives cult aswell and i like wonders :) apart that i didnt really priorize cult building got maybe 1-2 of those uu buildings in end. and i d never ever get operas as they are just so much worse as cultural allies - well u can get another dude into the temple in end ..
specialists in endgame are really op - 1 free hammer (statue) and 2 free bakkers together to the normal bonus is just huge and everything gets even multiplayed by bonuses

edit: and well I see the dow on a water map just as a "must" just to have a way to keep scouting.
with the later free boarder this seems like a design error - maybe it should be allowed to cross ai sea boarder even before open boarders or so.
cant be intended that you cant scout with a ship before CS - d make trimieres useless
 
Not gonna win any awards here lol!! But its my first GOTM and first play on 'king' :)


Least I won :D:king:
 

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