Turn Discussion

[CharlemagneXLII]

What's with the Viking galley near Mavericks? Where did it come from and what's in it? I think maybe switch to theology after our golden age, so we can get in buildings we need during the Golden Age (i.e. barracks and forge in Continuum), and then crank out level 2 units in our 3 top production cities. We might not get the bonus for barracks in Singularity, but it would be a trade for more experience.

I don't think we can delay the golden age very long, especially if the artist is born on the peninsula, as our allies will not trust us until we use it.

 

[galdarian]

Our allies are not going to trust us based on the fact that we got the GA to begin with.
What we have to weigh up is: Are Sirius and Amazon going to kick us out of the ETTT based on this string of perceived acts of selfishness?

On balance I think Amazons know they're bluffing and the real key here is that CDZ is going to be pissed more than they are. Ultimately I think that Amazons are just trying to hold the members together for as long as possible.

Diplomatically, Quatronia is treading a fine line. I think we need to be very careful that we're not getting to big in that we would become the 1 in a 3v1 situation.

On armies and builds: Warriors to Maces/Pikes is expensive but quick. Which is exactly what we need right now.

How many do we need for the initial stack? 6 Maces / 2 Pikes / 2 Bows / 2 Horse Archers / 4 Cats?

TBH I don't really know but we need to decide this quickly because our current Diplomatic situation WILL result in us declaring war. I think that a DOW is a good thing (so long as we get to choose the timing) as it will prevent any further suspicious dealings with the non ETTT members.

Further to this I think that we need to get the caravel out scouting (Maverick) territory now. Provided we're smart about using it, the caravel should be safe from attack.

 

[cav scout]

The thing about switching civics during a golden age is you don't loose a turn due to anarchy. So during a golden age is the perfect time.

And Buddhism did just spread to Singularity so we get the OR bonus there.

 

[Earthling]

What's with the Viking galley near Mavericks? Where did it come from and what's in it?

!!!

Screenshots?

The only possible way it would seem is that Mavericks gifted the Vikings the galley, thus this seems like proof CDZ have probably allied with them and are betraying our alliance. There's no other way Vikings would have gotten a galley there, it couldn't come through the middle (even if AMAZONs founded their city now CDZ couldn't be there yet) and didn't come around the Cape. Unless they slaved it in ereh Ro there's no other answer than a gifted unit, and slaving also doesn't make much sense, and we know Mavericks had galley(s) in the area.

I would switch towards the end of the golden age, maybe with 2-3 turns left, so it's still a free switch (no anarchy) but having OR just a little longer would be nice, especially for a chop coming in at Singularity or a whip or two over on the peninsula.

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

I think it's Viking, it's hard to tell. The likely explanation is that it left a while ago and sailed around the continent. Their boats are faster, remember. You have to be in the receiving country's territory to gift, and it looks as though it came the other way.

We really can't delay the golden age, as Galdarian said, we're walking a fine line here. So, when we're nearing the end, we'll have to decide whether the hammers we lose by switching earlier make up for the hammers lost in one turn of anarchy. We should get the bonus for the forge in Continuum and the granaries in Singularity and PP.

Production wise, I think we should go forge-> worker -> navy in Continuum. We can whip the forge near completion and still get the OR bonus, with massive overflow for the worker. Then when we start building more boats we'll be in theology. (We'll need some boats upgrading into navI and II to keep up with CDZ later.)

Also, I noticed DaveMcW posted the rules on DoWing...I think he must be getting a kick out of all the tension.

 

[galdarian]

I've looked over the last few turns of screenies and I can't see where the galley would have come from. They might have produced it in 'ereh ro'. Unlikely but possible. It wasn't whipped unless they grew to pop 2 and whipped it before we took a screenie. That and they haven't had a score decrease in the log from what I could see (last 2 turns).

Any other possibilities?

 

[Earthling]

If it doesn't have a promotion it won't have extra movement - did you see the specific promotion? and there's no probable way it should, doubt they built lighthouse that early that it had time to sail around the continent, I don't think it came around. Plus they have closed borders with Mavericks, so Mavericks would have had to open borders to let them around if they sailed around the other side, presumably.

Unless Sirius or AMAZON had a galley left that they gifted, or it was whipped, I see NO other possiblities. And those two are both so unlikely it seems like a gift from Mavericks is the answer.

Navigation promos are mostly awful on boats by the way (well, except for free but that's a given); combat is better because combat has such huge tipping points. The trick is scouting right which I agree is hard early on but nav promos would at best be used on like one unit then - and then of course as soon as Physics hits the answer is airships/planes all the way. And most combat might even take place too close to land (between the mainland and any civ's home island is too close) that nav promos hardly matter. So the short answer is I hope we'll have CDZ dealt with before it matters - and if it gets late enough in the game to like destroyers then it won't matter then either.

 

[RegentMan]

The galley has Nav I- I remember this from when I played.

I reckon I didn't think too much of the CDZ galley, else I would have said something.

...doubt they built lighthouse that early that it had time to sail around the continent

That would be the only other explanation- the CDZ galley was not in sight last turn.

 

[Earthling]

Hmm that's really interesting that it has Nav I then.

Do CDZ and Mavericks have open borders? They shouldn't EVER have had OB with Mavericks thus even if it came "around the other side of the Continent" I don't see the explanation for that - plus we should have seen it go by Quatron at some point.

But maybe that lends credence to the possibility they whipped it in ereh Ro (does ereh Ro have a lighthouse?)

Edit: I am *stupid* and there's a very good way we could check on everything here.

We have BOTH CDZ's and Mavs "power" charts don't we? Surely we could look there, and any unit gifting would be very, very obvious. In particular as it is very rare for power to go down given neither civ is at war right now- maybe if it was just one gifted unit it might look like Mavericks slaved (lost population) but if there is a spot where Mavs went down and CDZ went up that's concrete proof.

 

[galdarian]

Do CDZ and Mavericks have open borders? They shouldn't EVER have had OB with Mavericks thus even if it came "around the other side of the Continent" I don't see the explanation for that - plus we should have seen it go by Quatron at some point.

They would have had to have Open Borders to gift the unit. A Caravel would have been a different matter.

But maybe that lends credence to the possibility they whipped it in ereh Ro (does ereh Ro have a lighthouse?)

We can't see 'ereh Ro' from the screen shots we have, we need to move the Warrior in Pulsar Plateau out and back to have a look.

Spoiler :

 

[cav scout]

I think this is a viking galley that has circled the continent... except how did they get past Mav borders?

EDIT: I just checked and the Mav borders don't block passage. So this galley seems legit to me. There is no way it was gifted by the Mavs or produced in ereh rO.

EDIT 2: Logged in after the turn roll to check the game. We won the music race Amazons requested music and I accepted. While I was logged in I set science to 0% and changed tiles back. We should move our caravel East to pick up the Great Artist if necessary.

 

[Earthling]

For the galley - ok, that looks like the answer then, that it did manage to sail around if everything is accounted for. Course this doesn't rule out CDZ cooperating with enemies anyway, it just means that's not what happened here.

Very good news on music of course. I'm happy to finish off HBR/Drama/save some gold too while we see what's next.

 

[RegentMan]

Looks like there won't be anything too exciting coming up. Did we want to found Horizon now (settler in Continuum after worker) or should we not add the burden of another city?

Home Island

Continuum: Worker (3) --> ?
Quatron: Warrior (1) --> Warrior
Singularity: Granary (26) --> ? (whip granary when able)

Workers: One is mining the iron. The other moved to the other wheat.

Quatronian-CDZ petal

Resonance: Warrior (1) --> Warrior
Asymptote: Lighthouse (32) --> ?
Cygmus: Granary (24) --> ? (whip granary when able)
Pulsar Plateau: Granary (48) --> ? (whip granary when able)

Worker: Improving the bananas.

 

[cav scout]

I say the sooner we get Horizon going the better. All those spices will pay for the city and it will be one more location where we can churn out units.

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

I would prefer a few more archers on the peninsula for now, as we are still unsure where CDZ's loyalties lie and crossbowmen are useful against them. Plus, if Mavericks ever do pose a threat, archers are better at defending than warriors in an emergency.

How about a forge next in Continuum, which we can whip into a settler for Horizon?

I think we should switch to navy for now in Quatron- at least one more galley and maybe a caravel. When we go to war, the first thing we want to do is sink every Mav boat we can, so first in line for upgrades is the second trireme. We shouldn't send a caravel to explore Mav territory until we have naval superiority, and we have a spy to put there.

 

[Earthling]

I like switching to navy in Quatron. Enough ships to upgrade to Galleons should be particularly useful.

A forge whip in Continuum could be expensive but it's better to do it sooner (so we still have OR bonus, and the forge starts paying off sooner) than later, if we are going to do it.

I do like settling Horizon pretty soon regardless though. It's very close/cheap as far as any maintenance concerns or anything goes, and should get going pretty fast. Plus we claim the Great Reef

 

[Bowsling]

T98:
Mavericks: -37 Gold
Amazons: +49 Gold
Sirius: -32 Gold
CDZ: +60 Gold
Merlot: -42 Gold
Deal or no deal?

 

[Earthling]

That's ridiculous.

CDZ really seems like they are working on secret trades.

AMAZONs are clearly fine, and we know Sirius is teching 100% Astro, so it strongly looks like trading between MERLOT/Mavs/CDZ

edit: domestic plans. Last turn looked easy and uneventful but that is of course all right.

For internal decisions, a couple of things I'm thinking to do/change:
-Quatron probably has enough warriors, maybe get just the one more and then another boat or two now? We probably want at least two more galleys which we'll upgrade to galleons. Resonance is still ok on warriors though maybe an archer couldn't hurt, if we are going to upgrade a crossbowmen or two to watch for CDZ backstabs.
-Golden Age: I personally vote that we Golden Age the artist. We want to do this when we're ready in a couple of other ways - don't do it when we're about to whip citizens, for instance (so fewer tiles worked during the golden age) and we'll also like to pick up a civics switch thanks to the Golden Age. Though if anyone still feels we should do something else with the artist that's of course a possibility. I'm actually thinking we might just not whip Continuum after the worker if we are going to Golden Age in 3-4 turns, and most other cities will grow a bit more/not be too heavily whipped (especially after a couple of our new cities get granaries up then the Golden Age is good to go)
-the iron - I don't know where we are on progress to the iron. Like, how many turns left to mine it, or how many turns left to road? If the mine's almost done then that's it, just mine and road. If it's not, we could road it, go clear up the spices for Singularity, and then finish the iron - or if we still want the iron fast we just go straight through, same either way. When we actually have the iron connected that means no more warriors though so we'll just be prepared.

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

Maybe it would work better to skip the forge in Continuum and build boats there instead. I'd say two galleys plus another caravel- thinking even further ahead for frigate upgrades.

The money situation looks interesting, though CDZ could have slowed their research like we did. Would it be possible to determine what their income should look like at 0% science?

 

[cav scout]

I agree on the golden age. Let's hold off for a while though so we can grow our new cities and have them working production tiles when we start the golden age.

The mine is almost done but we should stop one turn short of completion and then put a road in like Earthling suggested.