Turn Discussion

Yeah we don't need to convert until we need the extra happy face. We'll get the +5 :culture: generation regardless.

I always play with "choose religions" on, so it will be nostalgic to get Buddhism with meditation. Praise be to the warrior Buddha! :worship: :mwaha:
 
It's more the +1 :culture: in all non founding cities with the state religion that I was reffering to.

Re: Opportunity cost of anarchy. Are we intending to whip some? If we do switch to slavery then slowing down whatever we build after our first settler by 2 turns is a consideration.
 
We still get the +1 :culture: in the non-founding cities whether we adopt Buddhism or not. If we have no state religion, and the capital has the Buddhist holy city and Islam, then it will generate 6 :culture: (5 for the holy city and 1 for Islam). If we adopt Buddhism as our state religion, we will get 1 :) and 5 :culture: only. If we adopt Islam, we get 1 :) and 1 :culture: .

Same goes for our second city, third city, etc. All religions will generate culture in a civ with no state religion. Only state religions will generate culture (and a :) ) in a civ with a state religion.

Did I even understand your post? :crazyeye:
 
Looks like I opened a can of worms when I threw out my cautionary reminder for us to not convert to buddishm right away. :ack:

My concern was a knee-jerk click when the game prompts a decision on converting. When I play SP i tend to click really fast, and that has been known to haunt me in MP games (the infamous misclicks you are forced to live with).

I'm going to continue this discussion over in the strategy thread so we can keep this one focused on the turns at hand.
 
Ok Earthling, Tag; You're it! :-p

I think that we're really tracking well overall. The Demographics show that we're 1 of 2 teams with pop 5. Would the worst rival be pumping out a settler?? Crop yield suggests that all teams have improved & are working the available food resources. Great production, reasonable commerce.

Are we able to understand anything else by these few statistics?

Yeah, the past few turns, well actually for a while really, I've been noticing things are odd. Why nobody founded a religion is beyond me (somebody would HAVE to in order to get the Oracle...?). One team has monstrous commerce somehow, I'm guessing maybe they had seafood + gold or gems and they obviously have both of their mines running. Likewise, a team at only three population is entirely baffling - they were probably the ones lagging at two before.

Anyway, I'm ok to take over turnplaying if you are ok with that; probably tomorrow to play the next turn I think. We'll be on the path to Stonehenge and exploring the world. If we haven't (?) named the workboats and units yet and anyone has come to final decisions for names - I could see the river theme being all right myself - just tell me what to name them, or really you could log in and do so yourself too. I fully agree with converting (Slavery, maybe religion) only after we finish the settler; that's a good timing on the way to city #2.

But so the question is, after Buddhism, is Wheel => Pottery fine with you all? (Then Sailing after, think that should hit right about the time we get the settler/city #2 and we can build a galley if we want. I still favor settling our third city on our home continent and then overseas after that, but it's a choice we have to decide on.) I think we're okay on happiness especially with the religion and I'm not too fond of that line of tech otherwise, but again, if we have ideas for the Oracle or something else still time to speak up.

Regarding tech - well, since I still worry going for the Oracle as well is a little ambitious, I'd rather take the simpler tech route and be sure we do expand, so going down the writing path. If trade/diplomatic contact becomes viable we can get alpha; we could get math or aesthetics or something too. Anyway great work galdarian and I will say I'll be happy to see things work out as it seems they will.
 
Thanks Earthling :D

In regards to city #3, i agree that keeping the early cities close is a good idea from a financial perspective. What I'm concerned about; the map appears to be a wheel in which we may be cut off from all teams via land bridges. Assuming that is the case it's pertinent we establish cities on the land bridge to garnish navies into the right seas.

Apart from being on the same island / continent I'm not sure why we wouldn't consider the closest "possible city" site (refer last 'The Known Word') as a contender for city #3.

Just thoughts.

PS> getting a scout onto that land bridge soon would be lots of fun for the turnplayers ;-)
 
Wheel-> Pottery-> Sailing sounds good to me.

I don't think we should found cities over on the "continent" until after we get a warrior (not a scout) over there to take a look around for a bit. Yes we want to get cities over there asap, but we want to make sure we drop them in the ideal locations.
 
All the more reason to get to sailing quickly ;)
By my rough calculations we should have all three turn 42.

If we get the worker to chop would we build the road in place? Else what are we going to do with him for a few turns? pre chops maybe?
 
We don't really need roads for quite as the river already hooks ups our resources and Sailing will connect our cities.

I was thinking the worker could go mine the grassland hill SE of Continuum-> cottage around continuum-> accompany the settler.

But I guess roading would be a good way to occupy our worker if we dont want to waste turns getting to the grass hill. We could even build a route to our 2nd city site to speed our settler there...
 
Yeah... since you put it that way it's probably better that he roads a path for the settler until he can cottage. We can mine that grass hill with our next worker.

Our worker can finish the chop, then move 1N and road, then move 1NW and roads the unirrigated wheat. This will create a path that will get our settler to the 2nd city site in 2 turns instead of 3.

The red dot on the settler's route is where we pause to make sure there isn't any barbs at the city site. If there is he can retreat, if not he can occupy the site and found the next turn.
 
ok, so my suggestion in turns:

35 finish chop move N
36 road
38 move NW (Stonehenge switch to Warrior till pop 6)
39 road
41 move SE and cottage. Continuum @ pop 6 running 15:food:-12:food: & 12:hammers: = 100 / 15:hammers::food: or 7 turns
44 Move worker S. Switch to Cottage in Continuum (Settler @ 45:hammers: producing 14:hammers::food:)
45 build cottage
47 Move warrior NW
48 Move warrior NW FIRST. Build road. Continuum finishes Settler switch to Settler / Warrior?? Settler moves to empty plains
49 Barbs can attack warrior. Settler moves.
50 New City (We need a name) and worker moves to improve


Have I missed anything?

PS> Because I couldn't wait, I have taken a religious screenshot for turn 33. :D
 

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About worker plans...I must have been thinking something different. Because I was thinking of mining the grassland hill due east of continuum (still within our borders). We could road it if we want but I think we easily finish that chop before the settler comes out, and we have another mine up to work. We don't need a lot of roads right away though since sailing connects the coast. And if we have time to cottage I might even prefer that rather than any roads at all - that grass hill doesn't really HAVE to be roaded right now. I'll also point out that for the purposes of moving out of Continuum the roads are not that urgent either, because we still have the "crossing a river penalty" which means we lose a movement point regardless, until we get later in the tech tree. So roads aren't all that essential and I think the worker can be on a tight movement schedule anyway. I don't see us saving a forest being that crucial and another chop gets settlers + more stuff faster, and generally just better use of the time than building roads.

So the plan I was thinking of:
-worker chops forest he is on
-Moves NorthWest 1 tile to grassland forested hill
-chops, then mines that forested hill
-goes back to a river grassland and cottages
-moves out with the settler

The result being a mined tile ~42 or 43 I think, cottage at 47 or 48 and then the worker moves out with the settler? It is adjustable if we want roads anywhere, and I don't think the second chop comes in to affect Stonehenge anyway though it would maybe affect what we build next going into size 6. Anyway, since this turn it's just finishing a chop iirc I'll look at things and see how the rest of the turn plays out, I'm sure you all are eager to keep going.

Nice work to all Q on our newfound religion as well :thumbsup:

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Okay essentially the same as a double post here but didn't want to do so. These are some new thoughts, see updated pictures in the last turn played (33).

Currently, regarding where we are at on the Stonehenge build, it seems like we are sacrificing a couple of turns of growth for one (1) turn on Stonehenge. Now obviously, yes, this makes sense to get the wonder as fast as possible, it's just perhaps worth considering if that gain is worth it. We are at 44 :hammers: out of 120, and our food is at 4/30 :food: on turn 33. From here...

-making 11:hammers: a turn and with a chop adding another twenty, we get Stonehenge after end turn on turn 38. If we switch the unirrigated farmed wheat to a hill for one turn, we get SH at 37. So essentially, the forest chop bringing in 20 :hammers: only saves us one turn over what just building it would show (turn 39) and two if we give up a little more food.
-Regarding food, if we work the next six turns at +3 food, we get to 22/30 :food: after turn 38, or 16/30 after turn 37 if we build SH then; in either case we grow at the end of 40.

So what's our other alternative - well again I have to stress it would cost a turn on Stonehenge. But I think this becomes really apparent in two turns (we can keep current production just as it is for this turn and the next). At the start of turn 35, we hit:

-66/120 :hammers: on SH, chop for 86/120
-10/30 :food: to growth

If we make 11 production a turn we see we still have four turns anyway; if we make 12 for one turn then we finish SH on 37. But if we move off of the plains hill, we still finish SH regardless, and instead can grow in just four turns - so at turn 39 we hit both population six and finish Stonehenge at the same time. Then (if we have the worker do another chop, but I don't see why not) we could have a settler out at 45, again a couple of turns sooner.

Again, it's a minor matter, but just looking at the numbers I think we see the principle - we're due to have odd timing/overflow hammers on SH as it stands. If we're okay with letting it go one more turn (not worried about losing it/time lost) then we get a whole lot more food/growth (like 10 more food and hit pop six those couple of turns sooner, plus the odd few commerce).
 
I just cannot believe we got buddhism so easily as what was basically an afterthought. What the heck are those other teams up to?

It makes me wonder about my next opinion, but I feel like it is worth playing it safe and sacrificing a moderate amount of growth for a faster stonehenge, even if the food > hammers conversion is not very efficient.
 
I just cannot believe we got buddhism so easily as what was basically an afterthought. What the heck are those other teams up to?
The only thing I can think is that someone is trying to sneak the Oracle by not advertising that they're going for it. Give it about 4 or 5 turns and if we don't see someone complete the Oracle I'd be very much surprised. Anyone planning on racing for it would be switching production and research this turn, has prolly pre chopped a few forests for the cause.

Or they're just crazy :crazyeye:

We're in the dangerzone right now in the sense that if any of the other teams were racing for Stonehenge we'll know in the next few turns. In terms of opportunity cost 1 turn on Stonehenge means that we get 3 turns head start in our second city. Production in Continuum is the same as we would have 3 turns of warrior production saved in my eg above assuming we warrior next.

To labour the point: we are either going to get Stonehenge or we wont! Considering that we're still the most productive civ AND the joint most populous civ, other teams either have to out chop us, whip it (whip it good ;)) or have started >=3 turns earlier. I think 1 extra turn will probably be safe.

What do the original Stonehenge supporters think?
 
I just cannot believe we got buddhism so easily as what was basically an afterthought. What the heck are those other teams up to?
Maybe they all are expecting a war game and are racing towards the military techs? But Oracle/a religion is also important for a conquering spree (free tech/happiness).

To labour the point: we are either going to get Stonehenge or we wont!
:eek:

;)
 
What do the original Stonehenge supporters think?

Yeah, you make great points, but again, I don't want to risk things we don't have to. By growing 2-3 turns sooner we do make up the production, and gain a little commerce and stuff, but it does put one more turn off of SH. As for other teams, I really just don't know what they are doing, but I won't be surprised if somebody has prechopped something. With any luck, some teams may both be competing for something like the Colussus - so maybe one team gets it but the others have sunk their whole tech and economy into Metal Casting.

I also note that we're the lowest in military by a good bit, which is also odd. Again, if other teams built like several warriors (and are presumably on islands) it's probably their own fault, maybe they are just wasting time. Though this could also be tech differences -hunting or Animal Husbandry or Archery or something I think.
 
This is the current plan we are operating under right?

Turn 27- +6:food: (6/28), +7:hammers: (27/30 workboat)
Turn 28- +6:food: (12/28), +7:hammers: (11/120 Stonehenge)
Turn 29- +6:food: (18/28), +7:hammers: (18/120)
Turn 30- +6:food: (24/28), +7:hammers: (25/120)
Turn 31- +5:food: (29/28), +8:hammers: (33/120) 2nd mine finished, switch from spice to 2nd mine
Turn 32- +3:food: (4/31), +11:hammers: (44/120) Pop 5, work forested plains hill with new citizen
Turn 33- +3:food: (7/31), +11:hammers: (55/120)
Turn 34- +3:food: (10/31), +11:hammers: (66/120)
Turn 35- +3:food: (13/31), +31:hammers: (97/120) Chop complete
Turn 36- +3:food: (16/31), +11:hammers: (108/120)
Turn 37- +0:food: (16/31), +12:hammers: (120/120) switch from 2nd wheat to forest grass hill
Turn 38- Stonehenge Complete!!!! :D
...
Turn 41- Pop 6

Alternatively, if we don't want to slow down our pop growth we can delay Stonehenge for 2 turns (turn 40) and reach pop 6 at turn 38.

I agree with TyBoy and think we should stay the course and get Stonehenge as soon as possible. When you are going for wonders in MP you don't mess around.
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Worker actions- There seems to be two possibilities for our worker after he finishes the Stonehenge chop.

a. Road for a few turns until pottery, then cottage along the river (see diagram a few posts up). This gets us a cottage asap and also makes a path for our settler to get to the city site 1 turn early.

b. Chop/Mine the forested grass hill E of Continuum and then cottage along the river. This gets us a mine before a cottage and puts a chop into our settler.

I could go either way but I'm leaning towards option A for the following reasons:

*I would like to see us get a cottage before another mine. We should be maximizing pop growth after finishing Stonehenge and the sooner we work cottages the better.

*The river crossing didn't seem to slow our worker down when he first moved to farm the wheat so I don't think it will affect our settler. Do river crossings hinder settlers/workers? Scouts?

*I would like to hold off on more chops til math unless we really need them. Chopping the Settler only speeds him up by 1 turn?
 
*The river crossing didn't seem to slow our worker down when he first moved to farm the wheat so I don't think it will affect our settler. Do river crossings hinder settlers/workers? Scouts?
The hindering affects all units travelling along roads which cross rivers, cancelling out the road move bonus. The worker merely went from one unroaded tile to another, spending one :move: point.
 
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