Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer

[El_Machinae]

Yet he also said, "blessed are the cheesemakers". Although many thought he wasn't meant to be taken literally and meant all manufacturers of dairy products.

I dunno, if you read the rest

"Blessed are the cheesemakers, for they bring you to me, humbly. But ye heedest not my words on the grain, and the toil you receive is of your own making"

 

[warpus]

You wouldn't believe how prayer works if I told you.

Oh so you know how it works? Well, in that case, present your hypothesis so we can test it

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Oh so you know how it works? Well, in that case, present your hypothesis so we can test it.

I have a hypothesis:

An individual attempts to communicate with God through any one of a number of means. God then factors in hundreds of variables to form a response.

So all we have to do is figure out every single variable, how important it is, and a way to control for it, and we can predict how an intelligent being with more information than us will respond.

 

[warpus]

I have a hypothesis:

An individual attempts to communicate with God through any one of a number of means. God then factors in hundreds of variables to form a response.

So all we have to do is figure out every single variable, how important it is, and a way to control for it, and we can predict how an intelligent being with more information than us will respond.

Not really. All you do is take a group of people and stick them in a room... Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, whatever.. get them all to pray to God so that the people in room A get better.

Now room A and room B will be populated by random patients from the hospital. You repeat this day by day and after a couple months you comapre the patients from room A and room B and check which group got better faster.

You then repeat this expierment in various hospitals around the world.

If prayer works, then on average, you would see a significant evidence that people in room A get better faster.

If prayer doesn't work, then you will just see a random distribution of data, without any clear conclusions. This result from just 1 hospital would be too inconclusive to say that prayer doesn't work, but given enough hospitals and enough trials, if the data stays random and inconslusive, then you could conclude that prayer doesn't work.. at least in hospitals.

That's what you do if you want to find a relation between 2 events. If there is a relation, simple statistics will find it.

edit: of course the patients could not be told of this experiment at all, due to the placebo effect

 

[White Elk]

It just doesnt feel like it works this way. Proving something runs counter to all that which has allowed me to see what Ive seen. I cant just pick up a near molten lava stone and prove my faith to someone. But I can pick up that same heated stone while in ceremony for the purpose of ceremony. Yet then I still get burned by touching the oven element though I have not been burned by touching stone and coals which are hotter than that 450f.

When you 'prove' something you operate out of a sense of ego. That ego or other animalistic desire seems to impede the connection with spirit. I learn this through experiance, but also the teachings of the Bible, Kuran, Hindu texts etc all speak of this in one way or another.

I think this is why it is very rare for one person to outright show their connection to spirit to another. One must observe and make ones own connection based on what they see and learn for themselves.

 

[warpus]

It just doesnt feel like it works this way. Proving something runs counter to all that which has allowed me to see what Ive seen. I cant just pick up a near molten lava stone and prove my faith to someone. But I can pick up that same heated stone while in ceremony for the purpose of ceremony. Yet then I still get burned by touching the oven element though I have not been burned by touching stone and coals which are hotter than that 450f.

When you 'prove' something you operate out of a sense of ego. That ego or other animalistic desire seems to impede the connection with spirit. I learn this through experiance, but also the teachings of the Bible, Kuran, Hindu texts etc all speak of this in one way or another.

I think this is why it is very rare for one person to outright show their connection to spirit to another. One must observe and make ones own connection based on what they see and learn for themselves.

I agree with some of what you say, disagree with the rest, and do not understand what your ability to pick up hot rocks has to do with prayer.

 

[punkbass2000]

Oh so you know how it works? Well, in that case, present your hypothesis so we can test it

I do, yes. You won't like it, though, and it won't further this discussion.

 

[warpus]

I do, yes. You won't like it, though, and it won't further this discussion.

BS usually doesn't...

In any case, I am convinced of the psychological power of prayer, as I have seen it in action firsthand, but that's all I'll give ya.

 

[punkbass2000]

BS usually doesn't...

I knew you wouldn't like it.