Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer

[Eran of Arcadia]

yeah, I would say that it isn't really feasible to predict the actions of a being that is more intelligent and has access to more information than us.

Of course, I also don't think that praying for something lets anyone give up the responsibility for working to make it happen anyways - the phrase I heard was "pray as though everything depends on God, then work as though everything depends on you".

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Is it possible that since the test subjects knew they were being prayed for they subconciously relaxed the part of the brain that controls healing? Like a reverse placibo or some such thing?

I dont know, but since theyre studying the ability of minds to effect health outcomes, the fact that an effect showed up in the results shouldnt be dismissed just because it was the opposite of what was intedned. I bet their 'scientific' explanation for it is to say its coincidence

 

[El_Machinae]

The placebo effect of prayer is well noted.

Huh?!

Wanna run that over again, maybe with visual aids?

I don't know if I can do visual aids, but the entire premise is based on the idea that the patients were properly randomised. However, given that they're testing for an interventionist god, they failed to show that the god did not intervene at an earlier time.

Basically, if you could fudge the randomising to hide your influence, but still respond to faithful prayers, you could make the study come out the way it did.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Maybe they did worse because God is punishing them a la the tower of Babel . . .

 

[Mirc]

It has been posted before on CFC.

How can you quantify how much good prayers did? And nobody claims help comes magically from the sky when you pray.

 

[skadistic]

What would happen if they did a test where the prayers were for death instead and the people died? What would the legal ramifications be? And if none died what would they say?

 

[punkbass2000]

Whats being tested here isnt whether God exists or answers prayers. Whats being studied is the ability of the mind (1000 minds in this case) to positively impact a a person health.

My suspicion is that it's the mind of the person with the complications which matters most.

 

[Nylan]

Perhaps God didn't answer the prayers because they were insincere and only for the point of the study?

If not, I go with El Machinae's theory.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

My suspicion is that it's the mind of the person with the complications which matters most.

Apparently so. Those who were told they were being prayed had a different risk factor for complications.

 

[warpus]

This is on the level of saying, "If God existed, he would lift this chair."

I don't think God is going to bow to our studies and do tricks for us. His will is his will.

Well, why would he skew a study to make it seem as though he didn't exist? Why wouldn't he just go about his regular ways, no matter if he was being studied or not?

 

[punkbass2000]

Well, why would he skew a study to make it seem as though he didn't exist?

Perhaps this particular interpretation of his operation is inaccurate.

 

[warpus]

Perhaps this particular interpretation of his operation is inaccurate.

Out of all the studies performed, none of them have been conclusive. You would think at least one of them was conclusive, if there was any truth to prayer.

This of course doesn't mean that God doesn't exist - it just means that if God exists, he ain't responding to your questions.

 

[nivi]

They do 'experiments' like this every now and then. Depending on the preexisting bias, the result go either way. Sometimes the studies indicate positive measurable results from prayer. Healing rates accelerated, things like that. I dont know. Like so many other things, it boils down to whatever youre comfortable believing.

As usual you are right.

Hell, wasn't there a study posted here that showed must studies agree with the reserchers intital premise?

 

[Sophie 378]

IIRC when the article was first published, they proposed that the people who were told that they were being prayed for, might have thought "oh no I must be really ill if they're asking people to pray for me" and then proceded to get sicker = more complications.

 

[El_Machinae]

Maybe they did worse because God is punishing them a la the tower of Babel . . .

I knew learning another language was a sin!

 

[Godwynn]

Thoughts??

If they are stupid enough to believe this I won't miss them much.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Is it possible that since the test subjects knew they were being prayed for they subconciously relaxed the part of the brain that controls healing? Like a reverse placibo or some such thing?

Or added stress caused the complications. "My recovery from this surgery will effect whether or not (some) people will believe in GOD!"

 

[punkbass2000]

Out of all the studies performed, none of them have been conclusive. You would think at least one of them was conclusive, if there was any truth to prayer.

Depends on what you think the effects of prayer are.

 

[VX250]

Don't underestimate the power of God.

 

[Nylan]

don't underestimate the anti-spam powers of the mods



I agree, there was most likely added stress to those who knew, which could easily have caused more complications. A whole mind can do wonders for the body