UHVs, Abilities, UU, and UB for New Civs

[cmakk1012]

But how can you leave out:

1) Republic of Ancona
2) Duchy of Spoleto
3) Republic of Lucca
4) Duchy of Modena
5) Duchy of Ferrara
And most importantly
6) Republic of San Marino

I would non-ironically love to one day play RFC Italy

(And I wanna point out my Genoa post wasn't serious)

 

[Edmund Ironside]

An alternative UHV for Venice could be:

The Holy League: Between 1570 and 1690 ensure no catholic nation loses a city to a Muslim nation, and also to destroy at least 20 ships belonging to Muslim nations.

 

[Force44]

But how can you leave out:

1) Republic of Ancona
2) Duchy of Spoleto
3) Republic of Lucca
4) Duchy of Modena
5) Duchy of Ferrara
And most importantly
6) Republic of San Marino

I would non-ironically love to one day play RFC Italy

(And I wanna point out my Genoa post wasn't serious)

Shame. I would love to see the Italian states included as civ dependent minor civs.

Also I think it would be really nice to allow them as a precursor for Italy.
Start playing as Italy a couple of turns sooner with a number of different starting traits to pick from.

 

[cmakk1012]

Shame. I would love to see the Italian states included as civ dependent minor civs.

Also I think it would be really nice to allow them as a precursor for Italy.
Start playing as Italy a couple of turns sooner with a number of different starting traits to pick from.

Ooooh I like this idea! It would be like the RFCCW Tamils start, where you choose one of three city states to begin as and each has their own special UHVs. So in this case you could choose between Venice, Milan, and Rome (maybe?) and each would have a different focus. Venice would be finance, Milan would be military, and Rome would be religion.

EDIT: IMO if this were to happen only Rome and one of the other cities would spawn. So if you chose Venice Milan wouldn't spawn and vice versa

 

[Finbros]

About Khazars and Eastern Europe steppes in general.

Khazars is interesting, but scaling them into game will place it into a two-cities (Itil/Sarkel, probably Derbent and Tamatarkha), twenty-turns (650- ~860-900) civilization.
I think, in european steppes we have a problem similar to Central Asia Turks: we have a lot of potential civ's (Khazars, Volga Bulgars, Tatars, Golden Horde, Crimean Khanate) but no one can represent all of them, and respawns with different names looks..crude.

I'd vote for Volga Bulgars (later Kazan Khanate) at 700AD as less nomadic and most stable, indy Derbent in 600AD start, indy/barb/Turkic Sarkel with Judaism spawns around 750, autorazed after capture.
It's a sort of ahistorical: for the opinion of most historicians, Tatars aren't direct descendants of Bulgars, but we can just think that this civ represents them all, like Mandinka/Songhai.

Golden Horde represented by Mongol's conquests, Crimean Khanate - as now, by flipping Crimea to Ottomans (and probably encouraging Byzantium/Ottomans settling here), Avars-Cumans-..-Nogais - by barbs stacks.



So, Bulgars

Spawns at 700AD at Bolghar (1W from now Qazan tile).
Core - region near Kama-Volga up to Urals
Historical - southern Volga region (represent Astrakhan Khanate), eastern Sibir and northern Kazakhstan (Sibir Tatars) and some contested tiles between Moscow and core (Qasim). As an easter egg - some tiles in Bulgaria (Balkan one)


UP: Power of most northern emirate
Spreading of religions (not only yours but all) in your cities provides additional hammers (similar to chopping).

UU (in terms of 1.14, don't look at 1.15 yet): Trade Caravan, replacement of Scout. Can conduct minor trade missons.

UB: (same remark) Some replacement of a Castle, cheaper and with more defense

UHV:

1. (???) Embassy of Yiltawar Almysh/Ibn-Fadlan journey. Build a Castle, Blacksmith, <..> in your capital at 1000. (or something another production-related, to represent building of castles with Arabian help and early medieval Volga metallurgy).
2. Battle of Samara Bend. Don't lost any town to Mongols or barbs until 1400.
3. Great Tartary. Control Volga region, East Siberia, northern Black Sea coast, and Moscow in 1700.

Names: Bulgar peoples, Bulgar Khaganate, Bulgar Emirate (after adoption of Islam), Khazar Khaganate (with Judaism), Bulgar Kingdom (Christian), Great Bulgaria (Empire rank).
Modern: Bulgar Republic, Idel-Ural State (fascistic), Bulgar Socialist Republic (communistic).
After respawn (AI): Tatar peoples, Kazan Khanate, Empire of Tartary, Republic of Tatarstan, Idel-Ural State, Tatar-Bashkir Soviet Republic etc

 

[rmontaruli]

I would non-ironically love to one day play RFC Italy

It is a great idea!
RFC Italy could start at 1000BC with:
Celts
Etrurians
Greek colonies
Sannitic tribes
Romans (of course)
Carthago
did i forget somebody?

...then...
Franks
Lombards
Arabs
Vikings

and all those we listed in previous posts...

 

[mccp77]

Maybe we need more space in Italy to have room for:
1) Genoa
2) Savoy
3) Duchy of Milan
4) Venice
5) Granduchy of Tuscany
6) Papal State
7) Kingdom of Sicily

I vote 'yes' to all.

While we're at it let's get a 20th century Italy, Lucca, and an Etruscan civilization along w Liguini the terrible's empire which spawns in 2112.

Oh, and I'm not joking.

 

[mccp77]

About Khazars and Eastern Europe steppes in general.

Khazars is interesting, but scaling them into game will place it into a two-cities (Itil/Sarkel, probably Derbent and Tamatarkha), twenty-turns (650- ~860-900) civilization.
I think, in european steppes we have a problem similar to Central Asia Turks: we have a lot of potential civ's (Khazars, Volga Bulgars, Tatars, Golden Horde, Crimean Khanate) but no one can represent all of them, and respawns with different names looks..crude.

I'd vote for Volga Bulgars (later Kazan Khanate) at 700AD as less nomadic and most stable, indy Derbent in 600AD start, indy/barb/Turkic Sarkel with Judaism spawns around 750, autorazed after capture.
It's a sort of ahistorical: for the opinion of most historicians, Tatars aren't direct descendants of Bulgars, but we can just think that this civ represents them all, like Mandinka/Songhai.

Golden Horde represented by Mongol's conquests, Crimean Khanate - as now, by flipping Crimea to Ottomans (and probably encouraging Byzantium/Ottomans settling here), Avars-Cumans-..-Nogais - by barbs stacks.



So, Bulgars

Spawns at 700AD at Bolghar (1W from now Qazan tile).
Core - region near Kama-Volga up to Urals
Historical - southern Volga region (represent Astrakhan Khanate), eastern Sibir and northern Kazakhstan (Sibir Tatars) and some contested tiles between Moscow and core (Qasim). As an easter egg - some tiles in Bulgaria (Balkan one)


UP: Power of most northern emirate
Spreading of religions (not only yours but all) in your cities provides additional hammers (similar to chopping).

UU (in terms of 1.14, don't look at 1.15 yet): Trade Caravan, replacement of Scout. Can conduct minor trade missons.

UB: (same remark) Some replacement of a Castle, cheaper and with more defense

UHV:

1. (???) Embassy of Yiltawar Almysh/Ibn-Fadlan journey. Build a Castle, Blacksmith, <..> in your capital at 1000. (or something another production-related, to represent building of castles with Arabian help and early medieval Volga metallurgy).
2. Battle of Samara Bend. Don't lost any town to Mongols or barbs until 1400.
3. Great Tartary. Control Volga region, East Siberia, northern Black Sea coast, and Moscow in 1700.

Names: Bulgar peoples, Bulgar Khaganate, Bulgar Emirate (after adoption of Islam), Khazar Khaganate (with Judaism), Bulgar Kingdom (Christian), Great Bulgaria (Empire rank).
Modern: Bulgar Republic, Idel-Ural State (fascistic), Bulgar Socialist Republic (communistic).
After respawn (AI): Tatar peoples, Kazan Khanate, Empire of Tartary, Republic of Tatarstan, Idel-Ural State, Tatar-Bashkir Soviet Republic etc

Bulgaria was discussed at length on the new larger map as a possibility. Ultimately, we decided that Hungary would be the better inclusion in the Balkans bc for gameplay reasons we didn't want to squish Byzantium.

Also, you're right we don't need a million hordes spawning a few centuries apart as civs. In my reading on linguistics in the hordelands most of these hordes were either ethnic Turks or ethnic Mongols after the fall of Rome. If we really want to get into the weeds and expand the number of hordeland civs. Let's add the Turks and then let them splinter just like the Mongols do.

 

[cmakk1012]

It is a great idea!
RFC Italy could start at 1000BC with:
Celts
Etrurians
Greek colonies
Sannitic tribes
Romans (of course)
Carthago
did i forget somebody?

...then...
Franks
Lombards
Arabs
Vikings

and all those we listed in previous posts...

You could make it a medieval start though (maybe a separate RFC Ancient Italy?) or else there'd be a long period in there where it's just Rome.

I might suggest somewhere in the area of 750-1000 to start, with the peninsula divided between a bunch of interesting powers. For instance, there are Byzantines in Calabria and Apulia and Arabs in Sicily. I'd also make the map HUMONGOUS to accurately show all of the tiny republics and principalities and the like. I'd probably include the eastern Adriatic coast in the map as well to show the Venetian empire and provide a base for later Hungarian and Ottoman invaders.

Another thing that could be cool is to make the unit production simulate levy armies, so armies only take one turn to build but cost an exorbitant amount of GPT so that you raise and lower armies quickly.

 

[Finbros]

Bulgaria was discussed at length on the new larger map as a possibility.

I say not about Balkan Bulgaria, but about Volga Bulgaria, early medieval ancestor of now Tatarstan, serious rival of Eastern Slavs before Mongols and, as Kazan, after.
(and we have a place for it even at current map, I think. I'll try to draw it later)

Of course, I don't think that civ is necessary in any point, because Siberia can't provide interestng gameplay now, early gameplay for Russia is challenging enough without early rival and additional stack of Mongols' conquerors, and 700-1250 AD still too short interval for civ.

 

[rmontaruli]

You could make it a medieval start though (maybe a separate RFC Ancient Italy?) or else there'd be a long period in there where it's just Rome.

In an ancient start any of the civs can prevale and create his empire.
If Hannibal wins we have a Carthaginian Empire.
If Celts win, we have a Celtic Empire
And so on.
Then, in medieval age, the empire collapses by barbarians.

In medieval start we have a previous roman empire collapsed, of course.

 

[cmakk1012]

In an ancient start any of the civs can prevale and create his empire.
If Hannibal wins we have a Carthaginian Empire.
If Celts win, we have a Celtic Empire
And so on.
Then, in medieval age, the empire collapses by barbarians.

In medieval start we have a previous roman empire collapsed, of course.

Alright, sounds reasonable. And the barbarians would "clean the slate" so that the medieval world would stay similar to history.

Of course, some of the barbarians should be playable too, at least the Ostrogoths and Lombards, but it would be like SoI where the barbs come first and then a civ spawns where they conquered cities a few turns later.

 

[mccp77]

Alright, sounds reasonable. And the barbarians would "clean the slate" so that the medieval world would stay similar to history.

Of course, some of the barbarians should be playable too, at least the Ostrogoths and Lombards, but it would be like SoI where the barbs come first and then a civ spawns where they conquered cities a few turns later.

I don't think the idea of a Celtic empire is reasonable. The Celts were never a centralized polity.

The Carthaginian things sounds reasonable.

 

[mccp77]

I say not about Balkan Bulgaria, but about Volga Bulgaria, early medieval ancestor of now Tatarstan, serious rival of Eastern Slavs before Mongols and, as Kazan, after.
(and we have a place for it even at current map, I think. I'll try to draw it later)

Of course, I don't think that civ is necessary in any point, because Siberia can't provide interestng gameplay now, early gameplay for Russia is challenging enough without early rival and additional stack of Mongols' conquerors, and 700-1250 AD still too short interval for civ.

No, I like the idea of having a civ in that area, but these suggestions just strike me as too small and regional. I like the idea of having an unplayable Golden Horde or something else in the Volga region to contest the Russians for a little while. Russia keeps going beast mode in my games. For example, in one of them Russia vassalized Italy in 1900. Russia needs to expand slower.

I do think it'd be easier to just have 1 Gokturk civ instead of a bunch of regional horde civs. The Khazars were the western offshoot of the Gokturks, and they were Turkish.

These seem like mod mod civs not core components to the game. I do think the idea of having a Kievan Rus that respawns as Moscovy is EXCELLENT.

 

[Ani Taneen]

About Khazars and Eastern Europe steppes in general.

Khazars is interesting, but scaling them into game will place it into a two-cities (Itil/Sarkel, probably Derbent and Tamatarkha), twenty-turns (650- ~860-900) civilization.

I would argue that some civilizations are more fun in a slower game pace, Like Colombia.