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UHVs, Abilities, UU, and UB for New Civs

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by mccp77, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. mccp77

    mccp77 Warlord

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    Hi all,

    So the "What new civs would you like to see added" thread is getting pretty full. At this point, I'd like to begin to take some amorphous ideas and begin to refine them a little bit. Please try to use the following format for suggestions for the sake of brevity:

    Civ Name
    Spawn Date
    UHV 1: <<Insert Here>>
    Short Explanation (only if needed)

    UHV 2: <<Insert Here>>
    Short Explanation (only if needed)

    UHV 3: <<Insert Here>>
    Short Explanation (only if needed)

    UU: <<Insert Here>>
    Short Explanation (only if needed)

    UB: <<Insert Here>>
    Short Explanation (only if needed)

    Ability: <<Insert Here>>
    Short Explanation (only if needed)

    Core Areas/Areas of Expansion/etc.

    Also, please try to keep in mind the limits of the game when making suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  2. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    Spoiler Java Idea from Main Thread :



    Core: The 7 land tiles of Java. Historical: None to my knowledge.

    Start date: 400 AD. Settler on Taruma aka Westernmost tile of what I'll assume for this post is a 7 tile long 1 tile tall Island.

    Pretty simple, Taruma rose around 400 AD.

    I have two ideas for UP, each with what I'd say is an interesting playstyle.

    Unique Power Idea 1: "Culture can only expand to one land tile at a time and converts all adjacent coast or ocean tiles. +50% Trade Route Yield and +1 Max Trade Routes with Rice. Bonus is doubled with a source of Rice."

    First off, City founding also plays into this rule, and the reason is simple: Taruma rose in 400 AD, but it took until 700 AD for the Sunda Kingdom to appear. This will mean we can tweak their starting Buildings and Production/Culture rates to encourage the first cultural expansion to be around 700 AD, which will always grab Sunda should the player had settled in Taruma. And there's a few good reasons why they would.

    1) If Sumatra was connected to Java Palembang would, either as an Independent city or part of the Srivijaya Kingdom, stop the player from sending their units into Sumatra, as they'd instantly die.
    2) There seems to be a Hill on Sunda, I'm not sure just looking at the rather small Sunda tile on the Borneo image on the OP of the main thread. If not something else can use up the first turn's movement.
    3) There can be a max of 3 cities on Java, and they'll need those cities for trading. Their basic goal here is to get as many cities as they can, build up their population using Rice and sea resources, and get huge commerce yields from trade and city pop.

    After that they can really do whatever. Start buying Techs to get better Trade and increase their specialist economy's versatility, purchase military units and start taking over Indonesia, etc.

    UP Idea 2: "Cities, Cottages, Hamlets, and Towns gain resource improvement bonuses. +50% Trade Route Yield and +1 Max Trade Routes with Rice. Bonus is doubled with a source of Rice."

    I honestly like this idea better than the above one. First it's simpler to implement, and shouldn't be OP a it still has the Unhealthiness from the improvements, and Java has a very small core anyways.

    First off I find this a much more elegant solution to Sunda, in which it'd be represented by a Cottage. Secondly, this helps them maximize their use of land tiles, meaning if we made every non-city tile have a resource by end of game, they'd be able to use every tile to a huge extent.

    Again I use that ending power, because I feel like it really represents the importance of Rice for Trade in addition to Growth.

    No idea for UB or UU sadly.

    They should Settle Mdaη i Bhumi Mataram on the middle tile in the 8th centure Build Borobodur and Prambanan in Mdaη i Bhumi Mataram during the 9th.

    I've been doing this research for an hour. So I'm going to post this for now.
     
  3. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    Location:
    The city of the original vlaai
    My current setup for Swahili. (All of this is already coded on my local version)

    Spawn: 960 AD at Kilwa

    UP: Power of Sea Trade, 100% foreign trade route yield
    UB: Ziara, replaces monument, +1 trade route (sync with UP)
    UU: Dhow, replaces Cog, +2 gold when stationed in a foreign city (max 1 per foreign city)

    UHV1: Swahili Coast Trade
    Acquire 4000 gold by trade (trade routes, diplomacy, trade missions, dhows) by 1500 AD (Similar to Tamil UHV)
    This UHV syncs very well with the UU, UB and UP.

    UHV2: None currently
    Build an Islamic Mosque by Y AD?

    UHV3: Marchinbar Island Coins
    Found a city in Australia by 1650 AD
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilwa_Sultanate#Possible_link_to_Australia

    Historical/Core area: East coast of Africa

    Color, Flagdecal:
    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG


    Spoiler Idea of novicenoble :
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
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  4. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    Location:
    The city of the original vlaai
    My current setup for Sweden. (All of this is already coded on my local version)

    Spawn: 1523 at Stockholm

    UP: Power of Nobel Prizes, settled GP provide 2 :) and 1 gold
    UB: Riksbank, replaces Bank, provides 25% GP points
    UU: Karolin, replaces Musketman, starts with March and Drill I promotions

    UHV1: Lion of the North
    Control the Baltic Coast, the Kattegat and the Skagerak by 1700 AD

    UHV2: Swedish India Company
    Control 7 fur resources by 1800 AD

    UHV3: Social democracy
    Have the highest approval rating in the world for 50 turns by 1970 AD

    Core: Sweden and Finland
    Historical: Scandinavia, Small area around Philadelphia, Swedish Gold Coast, Some area around the Baltic Sea

    Color and Flagdecal:
    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  5. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    Goes on to talk about Sweden.
     
  6. soul-breathing

    soul-breathing King

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    Maybe Karolin is more suitable to replace arquebusier.
     
  7. Steb

    Steb King

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    Some comments on this incarnation of Sweden:

    Spawn date: I understand the rationale for a 1523 spawn—it represents the birth of modern Sweden, the breakaway from the Kalmar Union (which would be represented by a united Viking Scandinavia in game) and the end of Danish domination. Yet I feel an earlier spawn date would be better, since the Swedish state did exist for centuries before 1523. It actually started to colonize Finland and Norrland in the Middle Ages. In addition, the Kalmar Union wasn't very stable, Denmark and Sweden kept separate identities, and they were even in open conflict during the union.

    Unfortunately it's not clear when the kingdom of Sweden actually started, but a date that could work is the foundation of Stockholm c. 1250. This also corresponds approximately to the end of the consolidation of Sweden into a unified kingdom (see this guy).

    UHV1: Good

    UHV2: What is the historical basis for this one? Was the fur trade important to Sweden like it was to e.g. France and Britain? I feel this would lead to colonizing North America and/or conquer Russia, neither of which are very historical.

    UHV3: Not sure how difficult or interesting this is (or, actually, how to do it—maximize happiness?)

    Other ideas for UHVs:
    - Become secretary-general of the UN by 1970 (represents Swedish neutrality and diplomacy, as well as Dag Hammarskjöld, considered one of the best SGs)
    - Be secretary-general of the UN for X turns
    - Be the first to adopt Public Welfare and/or Egalitarianism and/or Multilateralism
     
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  8. Novicenoble

    Novicenoble Prince

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    About swahili, I also considered giving them following UP;

    The Power of Traders: Can establish trade route without open border agreement.

    I found that it was kinda harsh to opening the trade routes through independent cities, Ethiopia and Indian civs as they tend not to open their boarder to Swahili ones. Then I had to move trade bonus to the their UB though.
     
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  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Any UHV goal that forces Sweden into conflict with Russia is a good one imo. For the Carolin, I would like them as a Musketman replacement that becomes available with Combined Arms.
     
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  10. star15389

    star15389 Prince

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    UHV 1: Spread Protestantism to X% by 1650. Could be made more difficult if Holy Rome were less likely to convert
    UHV 2: Control every land tile bordering the Baltic Sea in 1730
    UHV 3: Have cautious or better relations with every civilization in Europe while they are running Public Welfare and Egalitarianism by 1970
     
  11. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    For the third goal, maybe it should be passing the UN resolutions for some appropriate civics (Egalitarianism, Public Welfare, Multilateralism)? Would nicely combine those civics focused goals with the UN secretary goal proposed above.
     
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  12. Just an idea

    Just an idea Chieftain

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    My thoughts about Sweden:

    I'm not sure how well Multilateralism fits Sweden. Civic gives bonus for defensive pacts and Sweden has stayed out of military alliances since early 19th century.

    From historical point of view Karolins should be Musketman replacement. They were late 17th to early 18th century unit. Pike and shot era Arquebusier is too early for them.

    Maybe just my opinion, but I think Dominium maris baltici would be better name for Baltic Sea UHV condition than Lion of the North.

    Riksbank is Swedens central bank so I don't really think it fits as UB but at the moment I've no better idea.

    If Sweden would have UP unrelated to Nobel Prizes, having it be about tar trade which was important to Sweden's economy. (Tar was used in building of wooden ships.) Something like:

    Power of Tar Trade:
    Forest tiles produce extra :commerce::commerce: during Renaissance era.

    Two commerce per tile might be too powerful but idea was to have chopping of forest tiles actually reduce commerce output.
     
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  13. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    If we're going to have a nobel prize UP, I'd much rather it be something like "Whenever a Great Person is born in a country you're friendly with, earn a % of the GPP used to produce it"
     
  14. mccp77

    mccp77 Warlord

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    I think the happiness UHV works well. It's unique; I'd like to see some variety instead of recycling or tweaking old UHVs. I agree that the fur UHV doesn't make much sense.

    2 good alternatives:

    a. champion of protestantism -- they did save the protestant side during the 30 years war
    b. copper production -- Sweden produced 2/3 of Europe's copper during its golden age, and the Falun mines funded many of Sweden's 17th century wars.

    UP should be related to Swedish military mobility stretching from the vikings to the 17th century to even today. Maybe +1 movement for military units? It would make fighting Russia ALOT easier bc it would help to negate general winter.
     
  15. mccp77

    mccp77 Warlord

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    Taruma was a Sunda kingdom. Sundanese people are not Javanese. Those two ethnic groups have been rivals for over a millennia. Spawn date needs to be in eastern java with the first Javanese kingdom in 732AD. That also gives the Malays some time to get situated before the Javanese begin to encroach on them to build their own thessalocracy. Taruma can spawn as an independent in 400.

    Javanese
    UP: the Power of Irrigation -- Farms provide double food. (Throw a couple rices on Java)

    I don't expect them to stay on Java. My expectation is that they will slowly displace the Malays as the dominant force in the archipelago after the Malays settle Malaysia, Borneo, and Sumatra earlier, and the Javanese finish building Borobodur. More cities on Java are better, but they won't stay on that one island.

    UHV 1: Javanese Architecture -- Build Borobodur and 4 Kandis.
    UHV 2: Majapahit Empire -- Conquer or vassalize the whole of modern Indonesia by 1390.
    UHV 3: Mollucan Spice Trade -- Make <<insert amount here>> gold by 1550 through the Spice trade.

    I was thinking about priorities, and I think the Mollucas 100% monopoly on spice production was noteworthy, and conquering the whole of Indonesia was important. I like the population UHV, but it might conflict too much w the need to produce soldiers. Therefore, I though the UP could just increase population to make the first and second goals easier.

    UU: Kris Swordsman(?) -- Not sure if the ceremonial blades were actually used. Would like an amphibious unit. I will research more.
    UB: Kandi -- increases happiness from building it will replace (helps w large pops)

    I'll finish up editing tomorrow -- need some sleep.

    Malays
    UP: The Power of the Straits

    Spawn Date: 500 AD
    UHV1: Settle Sumatra, Borneo, Madagascar, and the Malay peninsula by 1000AD
    UHV2: Collect <<insert amount here>> gold by 1300AD
    UHV3: Foreign Economic Relations -- Have trade agreements with ______________ other nations by 1100AD.

    UU: Double Outrigger
    UB: Floating House
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
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  16. Just an idea

    Just an idea Chieftain

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    Maybe that could be also handled as UB.
    Soldattorp: Base effect + Free upkeep for X units (or just -X% city maintenance if that is too hard to code) + Free Morale promotion for units produced in this city.
    Not sure what it would replace. Maybe Barracks, but since system was effectively to give a soldier a small farmhouse to live in some agricultural building could also work.

    Little bit of off-topic but it just occured to me: How new system of units losing their promotions when upgrading affects free promotions from buildings?
     
  17. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    I like Soldattorp as a Swedish UB.
     
  18. Steb

    Steb King

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    I like both the Soldattorp and the UN Resolution UHV ideas for Sweden.

    All right, let's try drafting an Assyrian civilization:

    Assyria
    Spawn Date: 3000 BC in Upper Mesopotamia
    (perhaps more historically -2500, but that's close enough that you might as well use -3000. Babylon and Assyria would then start on par.)

    UHV 1: Four Corners of the World
    Control Mesopotamia, Elam and the Levant in 1300 BC
    (Can add Urartu, i.e. Armenia/Eastern Turkey, to make it four regions and match the name)

    UHV 2: Palace Without Rival
    Build the Hanging Gardens and the Library of Ashurbanipal by 650 BC

    UHV 3: First True Empire
    Control the largest land area since the beginning of history in 650 BC
    (I don't know if it's practical to keep a record of the largest land area so far, or if this is too easy due to lack of rivals. Less unique alternatives:
    - Control X% of land area in 650 BC
    - Control or vassalise Mesopotamia, Elam, the Levant, Urartu, the Caucasus and Egypt in 650 BC)

    Other UHV ideas: Found Orthodoxy/Spread Orthodoxy in most of the Middle East (to represent the role of the Assyrians in the development of Syriac Christianity) (I do feel like the Assyrian UHV game should end before Christian times though)

    UU: Siege Tower
    (Just stole the idea from Civ 5, where it replaces the catapult and has bonuses to city attack)

    UB: Garden (art from BTS)
    Replace aqueduct, available earlier, store a higher percentage of food?

    Ability:
    I can't remember, is the old Babylonian UP of no resistance upon city conquest used anywhere? If not, it would fit Assyria well. An alternative could be: No loss of buildings and cultural output upon city conquest.

    Another totally different idea: Civs that declare independence from you are automatically made vassals

    Core: Upper Mesopotamia
    Historical: Lower Mesopotamia, Levant, maybe some of the other UHV-related areas

    Color: How about magenta, I don't think any civ uses that
     
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  19. borhap88

    borhap88 Prince

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    Location:
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    Modern Italy

    1860 AD

    UHV 1: "Le magnifiche sorti e progressive (Magnificent destinies)"*: be the first to discover Radio, Psychology and Fission
    Each one of these technologies is often accredited to great Italian scientists or thinker. Guglielmo Marconi is often credited as the inventor of the radio because of his work on long-distance radio transmission; in 1909 he won the Nobel Prize in Physics. Enrico Fermi was awarded the 1938 Nobel Prize in Physics, he was the creator of the first nuclear reactor in 1942. I'd insert Psychology too because its discovery unlocks Totalitarianism, whose first definition was made in 1923 by Italian politician Giovanni Amendola, then by Italian philosopher and politician Giovanni Gentile, in describing Italian Fascism system.
    *A quote from Giacomo Leopardi's poem "La Ginestra", it has become an idiomatic expression to modernist belief in scientific and technical development between 19th and 20th century.

    UHV 2: "La grande proletaria s'è mossa (The big proletariat has moved on)"**: Control 65% of Mediterranean Sea and Ethiopia by 1940
    It represents Italian colonialism and WWII conquests around the Mediterranean Sea.
    **The title of poet Giovanni Pascoli's speech during Italian military campaign in Libya in 1911.

    Alternative UHV2: "A place in the sun": Have X oil resources by 1960
    This is another idiomatic expression to indicate the quest for a territory to gain its goods. It was likely referred to colonial empires, but it was used also to defined the peaceful managing strategy of Enrico Mattei. He was the founder of the biggest Italian statal oil company, the ENI (previously Italian Petroleum Agency, born under the fascist regime). He struggled against the oligopoly of the "Seven Sisters" in order to grant an energy independence to Italy. He died in a mysterious plane crash in 1962.
    This UHV could be reached by different strategies:
    - the military one, with Italy going to control oil resources in North Africa, so it could represent Italian domination in Libya, maybe Balkans, so it could represent Italian historical goals and/or domination in Istria, Dalmatia, Albania etc.;
    - the diplomatic one, as made by Mattei, by signing better agreements with the poorest countries of the Middle East, such as Algeria, Iran, Egypt etc.

    UHV 3:
    "Il Sorpasso (The Overtaken)": Have the 5th GDP in the world in 1990
    It represents Italian economic boom's peak.

    UU: Bersagliere (replaces Infantry, double movement points)
    To enhance military conquest in such a short time. Btw, it should be replaced UU for medieval/renaissance Italy (I remember "Condottiero" (replaces Knight) from 2nd UU modmod).

    For UB and UP I have several ideas.
    Something to represent the wide economic gap between Northern Italy and the Southern one created only after Italian Unification and that still survives could involve the ability to work Alps tiles. For example, Factory or Industrial Park can allow to work alpine tiles with +1 hammer/food/gold to boost, in terms of production and population, northern cities. If UP, it should be named "Industrial Triangle", that specifically refers to high-productive area between Turin-Milan-Genoa; if UB, it should be related to Hydroelectric Plants (it could be named Alpine Hydroelectric Plant) and it would represent the main source of energy in Italy from early industrial ages to the '70s.
    Another one could interest luxury resources, especially wine. Italy is the 1st world producer of wine and its food and luxury products are considered top-fashioned. A UP could give extra income for every resource traded: it could be simply named "Italian Style" (sorry if I'm falling in chauvinism, it's not my intention: if you want to, you can call it "Pizza Power"). Again, if it would be more related to wine, it could double food and commerce to orchard, so it could maybe encourage military invasion of other wine tiles around Mediterranean Sea, but I don't like very much this bizarre option.


    Core Areas/Areas of Expansion/etc.
    The same of medieval Italy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
  20. mccp77

    mccp77 Warlord

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    I think UHV 1 can just be the Hanging Gardens and the Great Library -- no need for a new Lib wonder.

    I think UHV3 should relate to technology. Assyria was the most advanced civilization of its time. Maybe have the most techs in 650BC? that sounds good. They'll have to race China.

    Also, their UP should be 1 free tech per conquered city. The Power of Forced Deportation. When they conquered territory they'd take the most useful people and move them to Nineveh. The library there was a collection of knowledge from conquered people.
     

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