UK election: Who you should vote for (based on policy rather than image)

[amadeus]

Charles Kennedy is the only party leader to actually realise what the reality for the British people is - rising councill tax and student debt, pensioners in poverty and an unfair tax system - and the Lib Dems are the only party with realistic solutions.

I've been listening to Kennedy, and his solutions are all the same: raise taxes, raise spending. As far as the tax burden being unfair, unfair to who? Kennedy promises to raise the taxes on Britain's "upper classes."

Who makes the distinction of what an upper class is, is really beyond my comprehension, since wealth is a totally subjective concept.

Plus, his Scottish accent is just horrid.

 

[anarres]

Labour -10
Conservative -38
Liberal Democrat 54
UK Independence Party 1
Green 53

What makes Liberal Democrats libertarian? They seem somewhat socialist to me.

UK politics over-simplified to the point of absurdity:

Lib Dems:
* Never really been socialist.
* Economically center-left
* Libertarian

New Labour (after Tony):
* "S" word never mentioned (well, he used it once 6 months after becoming PM, 8 years ago)
* Economically center-right
* Authoritarian

Labour (as in Old Labour, pre-Tony):
* Socialist (openly socialist, proud of it, etc)
* Economically left
* Libertarian
* Huge union base

The reason the Lib Dems seem socialist is because New Labour are more and more drifting to the right. The Lib Dems have appropriatly shifted to the left, although it's not too far from their old policies.

And to anyone from the UK or with any kind of knowledge, I'm sorry for that terrible simplification.

 

[Marla_Singer]

UK politics over-simplified to the point of absurdity:

Lib Dems:
* Never really been socialist.
* Economically center-left
* Libertarian

New Labour (after Tony):
* "S" word never mentioned (well, he used it once 6 months after becoming PM, 8 years ago)
* Economically center-right
* Authoritarian

Labour (as in Old Labour, pre-Tony):
* Socialist (openly socialist, proud of it, etc)
* Economically left wing
* Libertarian
* Huge union base

The reason the Lib Dems seem socialist is because New Labour are more and more drifting to the right. The Lib Dems have appropriatly shifted to the left, although it's not too far from their old policies.

And to anyone from the UK or with any kind of knowledge, I'm sorry for that terrible simplification.

And conservatives are now so marginalized that you don't even picture them anymore in the British political spectrum ??

 

[anarres]

I've been listening to Kennedy, and his solutions are all the same: raise taxes, raise spending. As far as the tax burden being unfair, unfair to who? Kennedy promises to raise the taxes on Britain's "upper classes."

Who makes the distinction of what an upper class is, is really beyond my comprehension, since wealth is a totally subjective concept.

Plus, his Scottish accent is just horrid.

Well, it seems to me wealth is relatively simple to calculate. Not an exact science but governments all around the world do it every day and tax people as they see fit.

Now what on earth was that post about? Was there any content to it? Did you even say anything about the rich, other than some obtuse comment about the inability to measure it? :crazyeyes:

 

[anarres]

And conservatives are now so marginalized that you don't even picture them anymore in the British political spectrum ??

Well, they have always been and will always be economically right and authoritarian.

Just quite to what extent may vary a little, but they represent something that no-one really cares about anymore.

 

[amadeus]

UKIP - a bunch of old fashioned rascists...

Racists? Explanation please?

 

[Marla_Singer]

Well, they have always been and will always be economically right and authoritarian.

Just quite to what extent may vary a little, but they represent something that no-one really cares about anymore.

That's quite insane when we think about it. Thatcher's party, the Tories, now completely marginalized.

I wonder if in the End Brits won't finish more pro-European than French people !

 

[amadeus]

Now what on earth was that post about? Was there any content to it?

I am getting VERY tired of questions like these.

 

[Hygro]

UK politics over-simplified to the point of absurdity:

Lib Dems:
* Never really been socialist.
* Economically center-left
* Libertarian

New Labour (after Tony):
* "S" word never mentioned (well, he used it once 6 months after becoming PM, 8 years ago)
* Economically center-right
* Authoritarian

Labour (as in Old Labour, pre-Tony):
* Socialist (openly socialist, proud of it, etc)
* Economically left
* Libertarian
* Huge union base

The reason the Lib Dems seem socialist is because New Labour are more and more drifting to the right. The Lib Dems have appropriatly shifted to the left, although it's not too far from their old policies.

And to anyone from the UK or with any kind of knowledge, I'm sorry for that terrible simplification.

Thanks, annarres! In that case, liberal democrats do suit me. One question: how do the greens fit in (site ranked me almost even LD and Green).

 

[ainwood]

Well, if you put a lot of "neutral" votes in, it would appear that the results get a bit distorted....

You should vote: UK Independence Party
UKIP's primary focus is on Europe, where the party is strongly against joining both the EU constitution and the Euro. UKIP is also firmly in favour of limiting immigration. The party does not take a clear line on some other policy issues, but supports scrapping university tuition fees; it is strongly against income tax rises and favour reducing fuel duty.

I said I was neutral on Europe, neutral on immigration, keep university tuition fees, and against income tax rises.

Unfortunately, like any multi-choice poll, I felt that the questions / answers were a bit ambiguous...

 

[Jack the Ripper]

Before elections are debated i say we kick out the royal family...

 

[Yom]

I've been listening to Kennedy, and his solutions are all the same: raise taxes, raise spending. As far as the tax burden being unfair, unfair to who? Kennedy promises to raise the taxes on Britain's "upper classes."

Who makes the distinction of what an upper class is, is really beyond my comprehension, since wealth is a totally subjective concept.

Plus, his Scottish accent is just horrid.

Okay, then we'll make a function to determine the marginal tax dollar on each fraction of a penny; you can simply integrate it over the integral [0, your income] to determine your tax burden. That way, when you want a way to increase the tax burden, you'll just increase the "slope" of the tax function.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

That's quite insane when we think about it. Thatcher's party, the Tories, now completely marginalized.
I wonder if in the End Brits won't finish more pro-European than French people !

I strongly advise you not to use CFC as an indication of what is going on in the Real World of politics in Britain.

Look at the polls:
CFC poll: LibDems 46% Lab 23% Con 20%
RW poll: LibDems 21% Lab 39% Con 33%

News of the Conservative’s death has, on CFC, been somewhat exaggerated.

I can think of two reasons why, IMO, the LibDems do so well here but not in the RW:

1. As regards Brits, it is my guess there is a preponderance on CFC of people who are students or were recently students (and perhaps still living with parents) or teachers/lecturers. One of the LDs policies is to abolish University fees and as most of us vote selfishly, it is obvious who they would vote for.
2. When I was in the above category it was trendy to (at least say you would) vote for (old) Labour – i.e. Socialist – and as the LibDems are the most Socialist of the 3 main parties, they are the ones who gets these ‘votes’ nowadays. As our life changes our selfish vote often goes elsewhere.

Also, don’t think Britain is going to become more pro-European than the French.
The LibDems are pro Europe and so the British CFC views on Europe are also not going to be the same as in the RW.


.

 

[col]

UK politics over-simplified to the point of absurdity:
New Labour (after Tony):
* "S" word never mentioned (well, he used it once 6 months after becoming PM, 8 years ago)
* Economically center-right
* Authoritarian

Labour (as in Old Labour, pre-Tony):
* Socialist (openly socialist, proud of it, etc)
* Economically left
* Libertarian
* Huge union base
And to anyone from the UK or with any kind of knowledge, I'm sorry for that terrible simplification.

New Labour
*Economically successful
*Belief in investment in public services
*Politically successful
*democratic - one member, one vote

Old Labour
*politically corrupt - look at Hatton on Merseyside
*unilateralists
*unelectable - rejected by populace many times
*dominated by union block votes

 

[Mise]

1. As regards Brits, it is my guess there is a preponderance on CFC of people who are students or were recently students (and perhaps still living with parents) or teachers/lecturers. One of the LDs policies is to abolish University fees and as most of us vote selfishly, it is obvious who they would vote for.

Personally, I agree with the Lib Dem policy on tuition fees more than Labour's on principle. In practice, my financial situation wouldn't change at all, because I'd be out of uni before it comes into effect (or I'd still be in uni, but it wouldn't affect me anyway, or something to that effect...). I also happen to think that the Tory policy on university funding is criminal; it actually makes the poor pay more for their education, which is just so utterly dispicable, I can't even find the words...

 

[zippy]

New Labour
*Economically successful
*Belief in investment in public services
*Politically successful
*democratic - one member, one vote

So economically successful, the UK has fallen from 9th to 17th in the world productivity league

Spent billions extra on various public services without any noticable improvement in performance

democratic, one member (Tony Blair), one vote (not counting how many postal votes can be accidentally diverted to local party offices)

Politically successful. Yeah, I'll give you that one.

 

[col]

I think not.
Productivity???
I work in education and my wife works in the health service.
And you dont seem to know much about how Labour policy and the manifesto is created.

 

[zippy]

I think not.
Productivity???
I work in education and my wife works in the health service.
And you dont seem to know much about how Labour policy and the manifesto is created.

pro·duc·tiv·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prdk-tv-t, prdk-)
n.
The quality of being productive.
Economics. The rate at which goods or services are produced especially output per unit of labor.
Ecology. The rate at which radiant energy is used by producers to form organic substances as food for consumers.

I do wish Gordon Brown would check a dictionary, there might be some other important words he could be reminded about too.

Well at least you and your wife's pensions are secure . Shame about those of us who don't work in the public sector.

It isn't how the manifesto is created that I am worried about, it is their total disregard for the checks and balances of the parliamentary system that bothers me.

 

[Scuffer]

It isn't how the manifesto is created that I am worried about, it is their total disregard for the checks and balances of the parliamentary system that bothers me.

Could you provide an example of that?

 

[zippy]

Could you provide an example of that?

How about the Butler report into the case for the War in Iraq. Blair heavily criticised for determining policy with a few favourites completely bypassing the Cabinet and lying to parliament.

That and the small matter of vote rigging.