UK Politics: Why can't Cameron seal the Deal?

[Quackers]

No it wasn't. Just check which parties people vote for - the exact same ones that perpetuate the immigration policies you have such a problem with. Did it do the Tories any good at all when they said they'd be 'tougher' on immigration? Nope. They still got whupped. And what about the BNP and UKIP, both standing on anti-immigration platforms for many years now? Small, temporary gains is the best they managed to achieve - hardly an indication that the public are desperately concerned.

Like the EU or climate change, immigration is one of those things that people tell pollsters they're worried about*, but when election time comes around it's taxes, healthcare, crime, education, housing and (above all) the economy that actually determine which box they draw a little cross in. It may be that a majority of people are uncomfortable with the levels of immigration we've seen in the last decade, but it's clearly not the case that many of them care enough to change who they vote for because of it.

*even then, I can't find a single poll that put immigration higher than fifth or sixth.



The EU is an emotive issue, and one that generates a lot of noise. But it barely registers on the "what matters most to the average voter" scale. The point is that these are things that are very rarely seen to have a direct impact on people's lives, and thus only tend to alter the voting intentions of (what most Brits would consider) overly-political types. Everyone else just votes for whoever they think is going to have the most positive/least harmful effect on their standard of living.

Actually Labour's support has been gradually going down since its first election win in 1997 - this was when the flood gates opened and hundreds of thousands of immigrants came into the nation. In the last 10 years a large loss of support for labour has shifted to the BNP because this issue has been ignored. Remember 1 million votes cast in North-East for BNP this is hardly minority support "fringe, lunatic parties" these other parties may be a bit mental but it just goes to show that people are so upset with immigration policies they vote for BNP. So actually minority parties are growing quite a lot who have a far tougher stance on immigration that is why BNP and UKIP and even the Greens have far more support than 10 years ago. BNP was nothing 10 years ago now it could shape the outcome of constituencies. So no you say that people continuous supportly Cons and Lab that is kind of true but a considerable amount have switched to single-issue parties. I wouldn't say "temporary" gains the BNP were on Question Time and will be every year till the next EU elections. UKIP beat LABOUR into 2nd place in EU elections. This is just the continiuing trend in British politics the abandonement of the so-called "mainstream parties" who barely differ and movement to smaller parties.

It is not just the EU it is the political classes refusing too hold a referundum which destroys any sort of trust or "representative" side of our democracy.

All of the issues you mentioned are adversely effected by immigration:

Healthcare: people who have just entered a country could get millions of £ worth of treatment without ever paying into the system. More tax rises.
Crime: more people = more crime quite a simple one that lol. Many from 3rd world countries refugees like from Somalia or Afghanistan with little skills and poor English. Can't find a job so get into crime.
Education: All too many schools report that many of their children do not speak English as a first langauge and that is detriment to English children and even more taxes to spend on translators.
Housing: We have the most expensive houses price in Western Europe and rent - sp many immigrants use public housing. I remmeber an article where the local councils have been puting up families in houses worth millions of pounds in rich areas all for having many kids it is madness.
Economy: I've linked this article before I'll link it again but it basically says that Immigration has barely benefitted the UK except for the immigrants themselves.

 

[sysyphus]

Does any sense of irony creep into you at all, seeing as most of these people come from countries that were at one time invaded, pillaged and colonised by Britain?

 

[Winston Hughes]

Actually Labour's support has been gradually going down since its first election win in 1997 - this was when the flood gates opened and hundreds of thousands of immigrants came into the nation. In the last 10 years a large loss of support for labour has shifted to the BNP because this issue has been ignored. Remember 1 million votes cast in North-East for BNP this is hardly minority support "fringe, lunatic parties" these other parties may be a bit mental but it just goes to show that people are so upset with immigration policies they vote for BNP. So actually minority parties are growing quite a lot who have a far tougher stance on immigration that is why BNP and UKIP and even the Greens have far more support than 10 years ago. BNP was nothing 10 years ago now it could shape the outcome of constituencies. So no you say that people continuous supportly Cons and Lab that is kind of true but a considerable amount have switched to single-issue parties. I wouldn't say "temporary" gains the BNP were on Question Time and will be every year till the next EU elections. UKIP beat LABOUR into 2nd place in EU elections. This is just the continiuing trend in British politics the abandonement of the so-called "mainstream parties" who barely differ and movement to smaller parties.

I didn't say no-one cared enough about immigration for it to affect their voting choice, just that most people don't. And, thus far, the move to smaller parties has shown all the signs of being nothing more than a protest vote, despite the fact that nearly all of the major UK newspapers continue to print only negative stories about immigrants.

It is not just the EU it is the political classes refusing too hold a referundum which destroys any sort of trust or "representative" side of our democracy.

If voters have little idea what they're voting for/against, and if the issue in question has a bearing on a multitude of other policies, then a referendum is a crappy way to make a decision. If any party thinks the Lisbon Treaty is bad for Britain, they should make that case as part of their general election manifesto. Promising a referendum was a cop-out in the first place, and I would never have voted for the Tories while they tried to deflect responsibility in such a manner.

Healthcare: people who have just entered a country could get millions of £ worth of treatment without ever paying into the system. More tax rises.

They could, but they rarely do. The vast majority of immigrants are young and healthy, and thus place little burden on our health system. The continually increasing burden on our health system is a consequence of having more old people, the vast majority of whom are white British.

Crime: more people = more crime quite a simple one that lol. Many from 3rd world countries refugees like from Somalia or Afghanistan with little skills and poor English. Can't find a job so get into crime.

And yet, despite rising rates of immigration, the crime rate has kept on falling.

Education: All too many schools report that many of their children do not speak English as a first langauge and that is detriment to English children and even more taxes to spend on translators.

A handful of schools have that problem, and the total cost is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Taking the long-term view, since us natives are so bad at acquiring foreign languages, it's hardly a bad thing that some Britons will grow up to be bilingual.

Housing: We have the most expensive houses price in Western Europe and rent - sp many immigrants use public housing. I remmeber an article where the local councils have been puting up families in houses worth millions of pounds in rich areas all for having many kids it is madness.

You're right that there's been an issue with immigrants and housing. It has been too easy for immigrant families to rise to the top of the council housing list by virtue of having lots of children. But it's very misleading to link the rise in housing costs with immigration. The real reason has been the willingness of banks to lend to commercial landlords and property speculators, allowing them to buy huge amounts of ex-council property to turn into middle-class housing (even when the demand wasn't there), reducing the availability of private housing for people on lower incomes.

Economy: I've linked this article before I'll link it again but it basically says that Immigration has barely benefitted the UK except for the immigrants themselves.

Barely benefited? That means they have benefited other people in the UK, if only a small amount, as well as adding to our total national wealth, which benefits all of us by making Britain stronger. What's to complain about?

 

[Munch]

Does anyone else get the feeling they're reading BBC's "Have Your Say"?

 

[Quackers]

Does any sense of irony creep into you at all, seeing as most of these people come from countries that were at one time invaded, pillaged and colonised by Britain?

Thats why we let those people in because we have a history.

I can't be arsed to respond to Winston I will feel like I'm repeating myself but you haven't convinced me.

 

[Traitorfish]

Crime: more people = more crime quite a simple one that lol. Many from 3rd world countries refugees like from Somalia or Afghanistan with little skills and poor English. Can't find a job so get into crime.

Crime: more people = more crime quite a simple one that chortle. Many from 3rd world countries refugees like from Ireland or Scotland with little skills and poor English. Can't find a job so get into crime.

Woah... Déjà vu.

 

[Quackers]

Woah... Déjà vu.

That is a conincadence I can ensure you.

 

[Benefactor]

Does anyone else get the feeling they're reading BBC's "Have Your Say"?

Yes .

 

[Benefactor]

I can't be arsed to respond to Winston I will feel like I'm repeating myself but you haven't convinced me.

Maybe you need time to think then.

 

[Quackers]

Maybe you could add your own thoughts to this thread too?

 

[bathsheba666]

That is a conincadence I can ensure you.

Is that a conning cadence? or a coincidence?

I think we should be assured?

 

[Traitorfish]

That is a conincadence I can ensure you.

...poor English.

The irony is delicous.

 

[bathsheba666]

The irony is delicous.

The irony is almost tasty.

 

[Benefactor]

Maybe you could add your own thoughts to this thread too?

Posts that roughly correlate with my opinions have already been posted, I generally feel no need to post under such circumstances, hence why it took about a year to register and I have barely made any comments since then.

But I'll just re-iterate my previous post for you. If you have run out of arguments to back up your opinion and you start repeating yourself, are you sure your informed enough to reasonably hold that opinion? If not, maybe you should think it over and/or do some further research so your not repeating yourself.

"I can't be arsed to respond to Winston I will feel like I'm repeating myself but you haven't convinced me. " is a bit of a cop out.

 

[Traitorfish]

The irony is almost tasty.

God damn it, so it is.

 

[Quackers]

Alright I had a problem when I was young which made me hear letters differeantly from everybody else. It is quite funny but V and B were indistinguishiable to me untill I was 9 or 10. And my grammar and spelling reflect this so be patient with my posts, lol.

 

[Bill3000]

It is quite funny but V and B were indistinguishiable to me untill I was 9 or 10.

You're secretly Spanish?

 

[Mise]

You're secretly Spanish?

Bloody foreigners come to this country and don't even learn the language.

 

[Quackers]

I'm not Spanish I feel more English and British than anything even though my surname is more Irish than most. England = best people in world.

 

[Traitorfish]

England = best people in world.

That was only slightly random...