Oh boy I'm definitely not scared. I agree with ungy, this is certainly pathetic. We'll hold easily I think. However we should tech construction next. Make sure that the cats (we'll have soon...) aren't on the fort as they get hit by flanking HAs...
UNGY-02 We like our people
- Thread starter ungy
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pigswill
fly (one day)
Toku won't dow KK yet but he will close borders which is a start. Maybe trade philosophy to Toku for closed borders, trade philosophy to KK for HbR. 10 turns of peace in which to build a couple of cats and maybe an HA or two to flank his cats should be enough to imrpove the odds should he invade.
Or simply sell compass to KK for cash and live without HAs (or research ourselves). We essentially have a choice between researching cheap techs ourselves and delaying our strategic objectives, trading for them and clogging up WFYABTA limits or living without them.
Or simply sell compass to KK for cash and live without HAs (or research ourselves). We essentially have a choice between researching cheap techs ourselves and delaying our strategic objectives, trading for them and clogging up WFYABTA limits or living without them.
silverbullet
King
I would rather save an expensive technology for a declaration of war. Toku and KK are pleased, and I don't know how much annoyed they'll be with each other with closed borders.
Normal tech trading does not provied a peace treaty. Only a tribute/gift request to either side. If he asked for a gift we would get 10 turns of peace, or if we ask for a gift (oddly).
Ok, I'm back. Some people were digging around my neighbourhood so phones (and with it the internet) was dead for more than a day. 
Kublai's stack is pretty pathetic, but he has 4 CR catapults, so if we let him attack us we might still lose a fight. It is very tempting to promote our phalanx units to macemen (they can be re-upgraded to grenadiers later and have some XP with it) and attack his stack before he hits ours.
I'll look at the save soon and perhaps change my mind/have a different idea, but I have a lot to catch up on.
Kublai's stack is pretty pathetic, but he has 4 CR catapults, so if we let him attack us we might still lose a fight. It is very tempting to promote our phalanx units to macemen (they can be re-upgraded to grenadiers later and have some XP with it) and attack his stack before he hits ours.
I'll look at the save soon and perhaps change my mind/have a different idea, but I have a lot to catch up on.
silverbullet
King
Yay.. someone agrees with me.
I think we should do that as his SOD is VERY close. spend a few turns to upgrade to maces and use him to unlock HE for us.
I agree. It's a tool for well played diplomacy. I think it's natural to have some benefit if someone is pleased with you. The WHEOOHN doesn't go away, it just gives you some extra turns.
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pigswill
fly (one day)
Olodune: I'd assumed you'd paused your set for advice/discussion rather than completed it.
If its not been mentioned before you could swop spear in athens for a phalanx in the woods to boost our defence vs keshiks.
If its not been mentioned before you could swop spear in athens for a phalanx in the woods to boost our defence vs keshiks.
silverbullet
King
Olodune, I don't agree immediate war will be more beneficial. I agree with a war in 10 turns.
I would like to spend more time in preparation, since we cannot whip, and his current SOD is right at our border. I am pretty sure he will attack in 1 or 2 turns.
Once we have the cash for upgrades, we should keep it, and avoid upgrading (to keep a low power rating). When he will declare in 10 turns, we just instantly upgrade to maces and wipe his SOD.
An extra 1~2 suicide catapult for protection would help, as he might bring crossbowmen, and all our defenders are melee. Another option is to queue a musketman and build it after the declaration.
In any case 10 turns will give us better preparation time. With our current army we might not unlock HE because we will lost some units. With preparation we can guarantee we get 1 unit to 10 xp.
I am not sure how we decide on things when there is disagreement - do we vote or just let the current player decide? In any case I don't mind if you decide not to beg, just stating my opinion.
It would actually be interesting to see what happens if we don't beg for gold. I usually avoid wars without a definite advantage whenever possible, so I am curious how other players play these situations (with no whipping and no meaningful production).
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Alright, we'll go asking for Tribute. As the tactic is not repeatedly exploitable I'm fine with it
Edit: @silverbullet
There is a pretty clear (near) consensus here -- since I'm in the tiny minority I'm happy to go along. If opinions were roughly split down the middle I'd feel comfortable choosing either approach.
silverbullet
King
What about Ragnar and Izzy? Do we want to help them out of the stone age?
If I recall correctly, Izzy doesn't even have construction, and we need to help her fight Justinian. I suggest gifting both of them some techs.
Ragnar will become friendly and trade construction and HBR (but we might refuse that and take only cash for WFYABTA)
Izzy will only give us cash anyway.
After KK declares on us, we need to have Toku declare on him. Otherwise Toku might join the battle against us, but we can discuss it once the war actually starts.
If I recall correctly, Izzy doesn't even have construction, and we need to help her fight Justinian. I suggest gifting both of them some techs.
Ragnar will become friendly and trade construction and HBR (but we might refuse that and take only cash for WFYABTA)
Izzy will only give us cash anyway.
After KK declares on us, we need to have Toku declare on him. Otherwise Toku might join the battle against us, but we can discuss it once the war actually starts.
If we trade with Izzie (even a gift) won't we get -traded with worst enemy penalties all around?
I also don't think its a certainty that KK will declare.
If we can get the 10 turns to prepare we will have no trouble. We have muskets and a +100% defensive tile--his best offense is a 6 attack.
Yes, at least with Ragnar, I can't remember what her diplomacy is like with the other leaders.
I think it's quite certain. It's been a while but IIRC Kublai got enough on his hands while we were still at cautious.ungy said:
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silverbullet
King
We will not get any diplomacy modifiers if we give her techs as part of a peace treaty (I am not 100% certain on that, but pretty sure).
I suggest we leave a musket in a build queue 1 turn away until he declares. If our power rating goes suddenly higher, it will delay his declaration and force him to build more army. So we should not upgrade any unit and not build any unit before he declares. We have to make him think that his cats and keshiks are enough, I don't want to see trebs and crossbows.
I suggest we leave a musket in a build queue 1 turn away until he declares. If our power rating goes suddenly higher, it will delay his declaration and force him to build more army. So we should not upgrade any unit and not build any unit before he declares. We have to make him think that his cats and keshiks are enough, I don't want to see trebs and crossbows.
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Part II, another 5 turns.
This set starts with a kind request of our friendly neighbours:
It works, and we have our 10 turns of peace.
Kublai still marches into our territory:
And still has enough on his hands:
We also get a helpful reminder of our powerful army:
Heh.
-Kublai has wandered aimlessly in our lands -- he's currently holed up in Athens. Be very careful tracking his movements ...
-I've finished construction, and put enough turns into PP to allow a GSci to almost completely bulb the tech -- Engineering should probably be selected on the IT.
-We have about 300g, enough for 2.5 phalanx->maceman upgrades, we can build up more reserves if desired -- I don't think we really need it.
-Workshops are being completed in our lands
- I've still not bribed the Spanish to peace, as their price is too high for my tastes, though we may reconsider.
-Corinth is building military and should be able to finish 2 muskets before our peace treaty expires.
Pigswill is up
This set starts with a kind request of our friendly neighbours:
It works, and we have our 10 turns of peace.
Kublai still marches into our territory:
And still has enough on his hands:
We also get a helpful reminder of our powerful army:
Heh.
-Kublai has wandered aimlessly in our lands -- he's currently holed up in Athens. Be very careful tracking his movements ...
-I've finished construction, and put enough turns into PP to allow a GSci to almost completely bulb the tech -- Engineering should probably be selected on the IT.
-We have about 300g, enough for 2.5 phalanx->maceman upgrades, we can build up more reserves if desired -- I don't think we really need it.
-Workshops are being completed in our lands
- I've still not bribed the Spanish to peace, as their price is too high for my tastes, though we may reconsider.
-Corinth is building military and should be able to finish 2 muskets before our peace treaty expires.
Pigswill is up
pigswill
fly (one day)
and Pigswill has Got It.
Whimisical observation: Athens is getting +9 happy because its citizens are impressed by (KK's) military presence.
Other observations. Mycenae and Pharsalos have no garrisons which are making them unhappy. I'm not sure about muskets except as a temporary expedient coz they only upgrade to rifles which are a long way away. What about (less than) a turn to get archery,to build either cheap archers (available until feudalism iirc) or crossbows (which do upgrade to grens).
Presumably the tech path is bulb PP, research (or trade without compromising lib) engineering, bulb chemistry, lib>steel.
Is it worth considering trading for feudalism and guilds at some point?
We could start converting some cities to workshops, tho I guess we're also looking for another three unis for oxford which would probably need scientists to make them worthwhile.
KK's stack does indeed need continual monitoring until he commits somewhere.
Whimisical observation: Athens is getting +9 happy because its citizens are impressed by (KK's) military presence.
Other observations. Mycenae and Pharsalos have no garrisons which are making them unhappy. I'm not sure about muskets except as a temporary expedient coz they only upgrade to rifles which are a long way away. What about (less than) a turn to get archery,to build either cheap archers (available until feudalism iirc) or crossbows (which do upgrade to grens).
Presumably the tech path is bulb PP, research (or trade without compromising lib) engineering, bulb chemistry, lib>steel.
Is it worth considering trading for feudalism and guilds at some point?
We could start converting some cities to workshops, tho I guess we're also looking for another three unis for oxford which would probably need scientists to make them worthwhile.
KK's stack does indeed need continual monitoring until he commits somewhere.
