UNGY-02 We like our people

I have a question - I just started playing and I noticed the game crashes when I press Ctrl+Tab. Is the latest save played with BUG mod, or did I not disable it correctly?
I renamed my custom assets folder, and when I start the game it doesn't look like BUG is enabled.
Can someone confirm that status of the last save?
I also tried uninstalling the BUG mod competely but I get the same result, so I am pretty sure one of the other players played it with BUG.
Do you want to wait and try to fix it somehow, or just continue game as is?
 
Doh, it seems Melior has played with BUG. :cry:
It's unfixable to my knowledge, so you'll just have to proceed. It's bugged here as well when I open the event log but I don't crash (yet), I just get everything in black colour. I'm kinda worried that it will crash when I play some turns though, but we'll see. While it is a little strange that I don't crash while you do (did you play any turns before ctrl+tab?) you're not at fault here.
 
Damn, I'm sorry about that. I did a fresh install of BtS a while back, but I guess maybe that didn't completely wipe out BUG. I guess I should have known better than to install a mod called BUG. :rolleyes:
 
... or you should try a newer version where this bug is supposed to be fixed. Which version did you use? Just a few days ago there has been a new release with a great new military advisor and funny stuff for grouping units together differently :crazyeye:

Playing without ctrl tab is very bad - you have to catch those notes when they appear and write them down. Also if there is a lot of fighting IBT you can only see in the autolog what exactly happened.
 
Hi Guys - can you tell me what version of BUG you played with (check the BUG option screen, its on the bottom right). Black text is better than CTD isn't it?

There are two ways of fixing the CTD once it has occurred ... 1) install BUG - you can turn everything off so it looks just like vanilla BtS 2) play your game with error logging enabled.

Sure, neither is optimal - but we are working on this.
 
Turn 113 - fire the scientist in athens, build 2 workers in thebes and corinth, research meidation.
Turn 114 - KK has enough on his hands!!!
I think its not us because he moves his units north.

Turn 115 - budhism speads in new sarai, KK no longer has enough on his hand (:confused:)
Athens lighthouse->settler (4 turns).
KK will not convert because "we just don't like you enough"

Turn 117 - GS born in sparta, trade CoL to Just for Calendar (he doesn't want Aesthetics) research currency.
Justinian is sending his missionary to KK, so I think Corinth will go directly to palace.
Confusian missionary failed to spread in athens.
revolting to CS+pac

Note: a few turns later a GS is born in athens and founds an academy in Corinth. I don't remember the exact turn.
Turn 118 - Kublai is budhist :)

Turn 122 - Ragnar declares war on Izzabella, hanging garden BIDL (Japan)

Turn 123 - KK has enough on his hands again

Turn 125 currency in
Trade literature for 210 to KK
beg 40 from Just
trade meditation for 40 to Ragnar

Turn 126 - KK is pleased (but already had enough on his hands before becomig pleased). We still cannot bribe him for anything.

Trade currency to justinian for Monarchy +55 gold. At 290 gold we switch to 100% research (-65) and Civil Service will be ready in 4 turns

Turn 127 - polytheism to toku for 60 gold

Turn 128 - GS born in athens - waiting for education. Next GS in 8 turns.
Beg for 40 gold from KK (now we have 10 turns peace treaty!!)
I am pretty sure he isn't planning to attack us. Perhaps there is a barb city beyong Toku's border that he is after.

Turn 129- CS is in, palace is ready in 2 turns in Corinth. I didn't play the turn yet, but research is set on paper. You can change that if you want. We are the only ones with CS in the world, and both KK and Just have metal casting but won't trade it. I think they are both trying colussus, which means one of them will haev a lot of cash soon.

We are ready to revolt to bureacracy+monarchy. I will leave it to the next player.
I sent 2 workers to the FP site to claim the spices and build some cottages. A settler will be ready in 8 turns or so.

I started building a courthouse in Thebes, but I am not sure what we really need to build now, it's just a placeholder for now (no hammers in it yet).

I am sorry that I didn't take any screenshots this time. I forgot to take them as I played the turns.
 

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Sounds good. More comments after I check the save.

Rusten is up, right?
 
Got it, nice begging. :D Tried ctrl+tab again and this time it crashes instead of black text.

We're paying 23 gpt in unit maintenance atm. ;\ That really hurts, but I guess we don't have much of a choice not being able to whip. Hopefully we can keep selling things for money to keep our slider high. With HR coming in we can at least use the phalanxes for happiness.

- Corinth will have 40 commerce when the palace is completed, so we'll get 20 extra commerce from civil service, not bad.

- Justinian has 5 gpt available - I'll give him our spare cows.

- Will chop a market in Corinth next due to our low science slider and its high commerce. The forests will yield 45 hammers instead of 30, and getting that market up will be very good for our economy, agree?

- We're lacking in infrastructure, but that's mostly because of the variant. I think we should take that with a grain of salt for now and wait for better workshops (at least guilds). When we have guilds we can workshop several tiles and revolt to organized religion and get infrastructure awaiting chemistry and the war. GSs will be pretty rare soon, so when we revolt (or sooner) out of pacifism we definitely want to have the NE in place in Athens. We should try to squeeze 1 GS out of thebes and at least one more out of Sparta, but after that Athens will play a major role, we'll probably workshop a lot in the other cities.

- I must say I'm really happy we chose a creative civ. Getting our border pops and libraries would be very difficult otherwise with our lack of hammers. That being said, we were a little unlucky to get spawned in the middle of the jungle, there aren't as many forests to chop for production. The land is still great though, we just need to make it to proper workshops and production won't be an issue anymore.

PS. I'm very tempted to chop the forests surrounding thebes into a marble wonder (MoM). That way we can get 60:gold: for every forest and we really want money right now. What's your take on this? We could do it in Knossos as well (gold - schwedagon paya).

edit: We might want to consider disbanding some units for less maintenance. Our warriors don't contribute much for the power rating, so they would be the first to go.
 
Very nice turns silverbullet, especially diplomatically.

@Rusten

All your chopping plans look good -- a market build in Corinth is a solid plan.

I can't open the save atm, but have we settled those two filler cities? Doing so would drop unit maintenance ... or is the unit upkeep just from Pacifism? (In which case there is not much we can do for the moment).
 
Olodune - we settled 1 city so far on cow+2 fish. I suggest chopping 2 forest there to help set up lighthouse and granary. It could be a nice specialist city with 2 fish+cow after lighthouse (10 food surplus). Perhaps granary can be skipped there and we should just focus on lighthouse and library and fix it at size 8 (3 working citizens feeding 5 specialists).

Rusten - I suggest you install the latest BUG, you can uninstall it after this game if you don't like it, or just disable all its options.

chopping a market seems correct. The AI tech is slow on this map so all we need is to bribe some wars to keep it slow, and then win liberalism for steal.

I suggest we don't cottage Corinth. We need mines there for now and that means more farms. It's our only real production city until guilds, and it already has a lot of commerce. By the time the cottages mature we won't need them anymore.

Do we want to cottage or farm Sparta? I think we should farm and squeeze another GS there.

The only reasonable place for cottages in my opinion is the future floodplain city. It will have instant spices to somewhat pay for itself, and after 10 turns at size 3 it will have 3 hamlets for 3f/3c, so it will be profitable pretty soon.
 
I suggest we don't cottage Corinth. We need mines there for now and that means more farms. It's our only real production city until guilds, and it already has a lot of commerce. By the time the cottages mature we won't need them anymore.

I actually agree. With the Steel/Military Tradition beeline outlined by Rusten there is no need to invest too much in cottaging (I think Sparta should still work a handful :p ). The backbone of our economy will be GPPs and production ... cottages can be liberated in our cannon wars. Corinth will be a nice hybrid city focusing on specials/farms/mines/workshops.
 
Yea I agree with skipping cottages as well. *gasp* :lol:
We've already spent 3 GSs on 2 academys and 1 settled, so we should put a lot of effort into making enough GSs if we're going to do the Steel from liberalism approach. As you can see from what I wrote earlier it requires several.

Olodune said:
I can't open the save atm, but have we settled those two filler cities? Doing so would drop unit maintenance ... or is the unit upkeep just from Pacifism? (In which case there is not much we can do for the moment).
It's pacifism.

silverbullet said:
Rusten - I suggest you install the latest BUG, you can uninstall it after this game if you don't like it, or just disable all its options.
I guess I have no choice but to give it a go. What masterminds BUG got working for them; forcing people to try their mod! I bet they implemented that crash thingie themselves for more downloads. :D

silverbullet said:
Perhaps granary can be skipped there and we should just focus on lighthouse and library and fix it at size 8 (3 working citizens feeding 5 specialists).
Sounds good. It can go for lighthouse -> library -> granary slowly while running specialists.

- - - - - -

Another one of those long-term thoughts :

I think it might be good to attack Justinian first with our grenadiers. He is doing a very good job providing us with a buddhist shrine which I want to get my hands on.

good;
- Our new capital is nicely located if we add some Byzantine cities.
- Justinians capital isn't that far into his territory and definitely within reach.
- He has a great capital with a juicy shrine in it.
- He values religion highly, so even after capitulating him we will be able to get him to friendly with ease for tech trading and as a war ally.
- He's neither aggressive nor protective.
- We'll get foreign trade routes in mercantilism if/when we choose to revolt into that civic.

bad;
- His UU has a high strenght base (but I still think our strenght promoted grenadiers will own them, we might get some extra losses however).
- We'll lose a trading partner temporarily.
- We'll be bordering Izzy, who might get very strong.
- We have yet to meet the last AIs so things might get turned upside-down quickly

That's all I can think of now that I'm writing it down (think I had some more thoughts earlier). Basically it's still very soon so we won't commit to anything, it's important to keep an open mind and play the current situation, just throwing it out there.

I'd like to play this in 6-8 hours if possible. It's very suitable for me, but if you guys want some more time to discuss I can easily wait.
 
On another note; I just downloaded and installed BUG, but I still crash from opening the event log? :hmm:

Here's a screen below in the spoiler taken from just before ctrl+tab--as you can see BUG is running.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0097.JPG
 
Doh, it seems Melior has played with BUG. :cry:
Damn, I'm sorry about that. I did a fresh install of BtS a while back, but I guess maybe that didn't completely wipe out BUG.
Hi Guys - can you tell me what version of BUG you played with (check the BUG option screen, its on the bottom right)
On another note; I just downloaded and installed BUG, but I still crash from opening the event log? :hmm:
From my point of view, this is great news. Melior's version of BUG introduced the in-game log bug that vanilla BtS crashes on. Rusten's version of BUG (v2.3 I'm assuming from looking at the screenie) also has the in-game log crash. This means that v2.3 of BUG has a similar reaction to vanilla BtS to this BUG, thus implying that v2.3 of BUG doesn't contain the code to over-ride or introduce (this last bit might be a bit of a stretch) the bug.

Melior - what version of BUG did you use? Do you know? Was it d/l from an install exe or zip or did you pull it from the SVN? If we can get your version, then I can look at what the differences are between it and v2.3 and see how we 'fixed' it.

I'm grabbing a copy of 'Ungy-02 AD-0375.CivBeyondSwordSave' for bug testing purposes.
 
We could get Justinian friendly once we adopt theocracy, and at that point we may be able to bribe him to war finally. It would be nice to let Izzy destroy his SOD of cataphracts.

Otherwise, I think it will be just a numbers game. Grenadiers have the same base strength as Cataphracts and cannons, so they will be quite tough. We will have to stay mostly on hills and try to attack first, so our siege eliminates them. Nevertheless, I do agree that attacking Justinian is better than attacking KK based on what we know now (things may change later).
I don't see how promoted grenadiers will own Justinian's knights on open land, we will have to try to be the attackers, and stay on hills as much as possible.
 
From my point of view, this is great news.
Helps not having to play the game. ;) Oh well, I guess it's for the greater good if you've fixed it/find out how to avoid it in the future. And yes, I was using the most recent version (2.3).

silverbullet said:
I don't see how promoted grenadiers will own Justinian's knights on open land, we will have to try to be the attackers, and stay on hills as much as possible.
That was the idea--using defensive bonuses and siege. We can use hills/forests all the way to his capital except for 1 tile iirc. But we can drop it for now and talk about it later, it's still far ahead.
 
Rusten:

I like your plans--I would add getting a WB in the north out quickly and trying to send it past Toku--Ragnar did so it may very well still be possible. That could give us one or both remaining contacts. I don't like our chances for getting contact from our southern WB.

I think we should shorten the sets--how about play 10-15 turns to a good stopping point?

I think this was the order we played:

Roster:

Rusten
Olodune
Pigswill
Mystyfly
Ungy
Melior
Silverbullet
 
I think we should shorten the sets--how about play 10-15 turns to a good stopping point?

Its an exciting map, with lots of potential for delicate diplomacy -- so I agree with shorter turnsets.
 
Agree with shorter sets as well. I'll play in 2 hours if there are no objections.

Agree with sending a WB north through Kublai too, I'll see to it right away. Maybe we'll even meet an overseas AI for better trade routes.
 
Turn 130 -> 145.
Played 15 as it was pretty uneventful apart from a phony war and moving work boats.

- Swapped civics
- Put slider to 0% a couple of turns as it's better to wait for the capital to be in Corinth as it has an academy and a lot of commerce.

- My plans on chopping for gold into the MoM came to an early end, Toku finishes the wonder right as I take over. Fortunately there's still the Shwedagon Paya.

- Did the 5 gpt for cows deal with Justinian.
- Turn after Toku has 4 gpt available--I give him 1 of our 3 clam resources for it.

- Disband 4 warriors, and suddenly we're down to 16 upkeep (from 23), definitely worth it. I also switch the chariot scouting KK with the sentry one currently garrisoning a city. A couple of turns later we're at 12 upkeep, but I'm not sure what caused this extra drop.

- Turn 134 we get a request--I thought about this for several minutes.

ungy02+1_40000.JPG


After weighing pro and con and seeing that Izzy had no way to get to us and that the relationship is doomed anyway I accepted the request. A secondary bonus was that this allowed our work boat exploring westwards to pass through Spanish territory instead of getting disbanded. At the end of the turnset it has made it through Spanish territory unharmed.

- Turn 135 I sell Literature to Tokugawa for 190 gold.

- Turn 136 The Shwedagon Paya has been built by someone (I think it was Kublai Khan) before I got to chop all of the forests, but we still bank in on ~230 gold.

- Turn 137 Athens spawn a GS and it bulbs education together with the other one. Research got set to compass after paper while waiting for the GS. It's a tech the AI often delays and we need it as it's before a lot of things on the bulbing list. I'm hoping to be able to trade for MC.

- Turn 138 Toku converts to Buddhism !!! That certainly put an end to our plans of getting him and KK to fight each other. I think this was more bad than good as the Buddhist-block is a little too big now, but there was nothing to be done about it. The moment he converted I gifted him CoL as everyone else had it by now. It wasn't enough to get him to pleased, but I got around to that later. We're currently putting a turn into Liberalism while waiting for someone to teach us MC.

- Turn 139 I decide to gift Toku Compass to decrease the risk of a war declaration. He's bumped up to pleased and we open borders, always a fun moment! :D

ungy02+1_90001.JPG


- Turn 139 We have 400 beakers invested into Liberalism and have to stop there. I set research to Gunpowder. We're currently getting 171 beakers per turn with +3 gold coming in. Our economy is getting pretty strong now.

- Turn 143 I beg Toku for 40 gold, and he accepts!? What's going on here?! :help:

- Can't remember exactly when, but I begged Ragnar for gold as well at some point during the turnset.

- Our other work boat has gotten past Kublai's territory, but still hasn't met anyone. If I had known Toku would open borders I'd send it south-east instead, but certain things you just can't predict. :rolleyes:

- We're currently 1 turn away from gunpowder, but KK/Justinian STILL won't trade MC, I'm losing my mind here. :mad: We could try to gift something to Justinian and get him to friendly to speed up our Steel/Chemistry. We need to go through MC/Machinery now, and it would be best to have someone help out there. Tech screen is below, as you can see Justinian (and KK) has machinery, so if we get Justinian to friendly we can trade for both and then head onto Printing Press and by the time we finish Printing Press he might've researched Engineering for us. But that's not a necessity, we can do it ourselves as well.

ungy02+2_60000.JPG


Reason why i stopped 1 turn before Gunpowder was that we have to decide now. If we finish Gunpowder and then trade for MC machinery won't be open and we'll waste a turn. We have to do it now and then trade for machinery the next turn.

Be aware that we need to research construction as well though (before Engineering and Chemistry). As pigswill expected nobody wants to trade it. I've seen the same thing happening too, but wasn't fully sure earlier.

- Athens will produce the next GS in 1 or 2 turns. Sparta will have no problem getting the next one. Thebes is currently on starvation instead of working food-neutral tiles. The moment it has grassland farms ready make a switch.

- I've started the NE in Athens (1 turn).

- The GS Athens is getting now will lightbulb Liberalism. The one Sparta is getting will lightbulb PP and the next one (probably Athens) will lightbulb 1/2 of chemistry, but we might end up 1 short. It's extra effective if we can 2x lightbulb Chemistry. Maybe we can squeeze one more in with some starvation in Thebes, we'll see. If we have to self-research Engineering we might have time though.

- KK still has enough on his hands, but his stack is still located nearby Turfan (at least it was 2 turns ago).

- Izzy is ready for peacetalks, but are we?

- Farm from Corinth towards the rice to the north--it lacks fresh water.

Olodune is up next. :)
 

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